Nope - understood that fine. But if HMRC are going to classify your van as a car.......
When is a van not a van ... ask HMRC!
Nope - understood that fine. But if HMRC are going to classify your van as a car.......
"Private use of vehicles has always been an issue this not something new. "- but HMRC have just altered the interpretation/risk/cost/penalty profile, if this ruling remains unchallenged.
It was only a matter of time before they looked at Kombis in more details. The majority of guys I know that own one in their business. Essentially just use it to commute to the office and home and with the family on weekend. It is these individual that have led to HMRC to take a few of these to the courts. Most of these guys don't even own a separate family vehicle. VW sure a niche in the market for these type of vehicles and if you have every contacted VW for a answer whether it is van for tax purposes, they have always said best to check with your accountant.
I remember someone asking HMRC around 5 years ago, and this problem existed as this was their response:
Vans with rear seats
Some vehicles look like vans and don't have windows in the sides behind the driver. But they do have additional seats for carrying passengers behind the front row of seats (or they're designed so they can be fitted with them). They're sometimes known as combination vans or combi vans.
HMRC considers that this type of vehicle is a commercial vehicle for VAT purposes if it meets either of the following conditions:
It has a payload of more than one tonne after the extra seats have been added.
The dedicated load area (the load area that's completely unaffected by the extra seats) is larger than the passenger area. This means that the main use of the vehicle is for carrying goods rather than passengers.
If it meets either of these conditions then the vehicle is a commercial vehicle for VAT purposes and you can reclaim the input VAT if you follow the normal rules for reclaiming VAT."
also on another page:
"The 1 tonne rule only applies to double cab pick-ups, not to any other vehicle."
HMRC have been of the opinion they are cars for a very long time, but like most of us, I have been happy to ignore their opinion as there had not been a precedent case on the matter. I recently sold the Kombi as could see that it may be an issue and purchased a caravelle personally and recharge my mileage to the company.
I remember someone asking HMRC around 5 years ago, and this problem existed as this was their response:
Vans with rear seats
Some vehicles look like vans and don't have windows in the sides behind the driver. But they do have additional seats for carrying passengers behind the front row of seats (or they're designed so they can be fitted with them). They're sometimes known as combination vans or combi vans.
HMRC considers that this type of vehicle is a commercial vehicle for VAT purposes if it meets either of the following conditions:
It has a payload of more than one tonne after the extra seats have been added.
The dedicated load area (the load area that's completely unaffected by the extra seats) is larger than the passenger area. This means that the main use of the vehicle is for carrying goods rather than passengers.
If it meets either of these conditions then the vehicle is a commercial vehicle for VAT purposes and you can reclaim the input VAT if you follow the normal rules for reclaiming VAT."
also on another page:
"The 1 tonne rule only applies to double cab pick-ups, not to any other vehicle."
HMRC have been of the opinion they are cars for a very long time, but like most of us, I have been happy to ignore their opinion as there had not been a precedent case on the matter. I recently sold the Kombi as could see that it may be an issue and purchased a caravelle personally and recharge my mileage to the company.
When you consider just how good a tricked VW Kombi is, it is hardly surprising, I suppose that HMRC start to feel that they are having their leg lifted a little; When the cost gets to approaching £40k, then maybe alarm bells start ringing!!
The Double Cab pick ups are moving up the luxury league now, with VW and Merc launching V6 250bhp £40k trucks, wonder if they will be next to draw the tax mans gaze????????
Has the Tax man picked on Coca-Cola to send a warning shot out to the small players, without causing real hardship......"
BEWARE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED", says the TAX Man
Is this the start of the substantive death of the VW T6 Tricked Kombi for businesses???????; or is it a case of Sod It, and just pay the tax. Or will the VAT man be next to call, if there is a sniff of personal use. Time will tell......
The Double Cab pick ups are moving up the luxury league now, with VW and Merc launching V6 250bhp £40k trucks, wonder if they will be next to draw the tax mans gaze????????
Has the Tax man picked on Coca-Cola to send a warning shot out to the small players, without causing real hardship......"
BEWARE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED", says the TAX ManIs this the start of the substantive death of the VW T6 Tricked Kombi for businesses???????; or is it a case of Sod It, and just pay the tax. Or will the VAT man be next to call, if there is a sniff of personal use. Time will tell......
There is no reason it can't be sold as recreational, many of us don't use one for business but more for pleasure. About time they came out with a decent day van for people
I did say " for businesses????", but I am with you; our tricked T6 is much more important to us than any car or regular 4*4 could ever be. Thats why we pay the tax and vat, and have the T6 we want, with no concerns
The Day van is interesting, they do have other models in Europe which would have met our needs better. We have 3 seat bench in the garage which will never be used by us, that I didn't want. 4 Captains seats is our choice, with a hoze-able back would have been good for us
Last edited:
If you can demonstrate the vehicle is exclusively used for work then there should be no issue.......
The problem creeps in when you advise vehicle is used privately.......
A T32 is also at commercial weight so this helps Vs T28/30
Having vehicle sign written clear shows the vehicle is commercially advertising....
In the coca cola case, the company advised the vehicles were used for private use hence openly confirming BIK issue
The problem creeps in when you advise vehicle is used privately.......
A T32 is also at commercial weight so this helps Vs T28/30
Having vehicle sign written clear shows the vehicle is commercially advertising....
In the coca cola case, the company advised the vehicles were used for private use hence openly confirming BIK issue
This is for reclamation of VAT, the issue really is for the BIK. Whether you pay as Company Car or Company Van.
The difference is over 1100 a year more in tax
Please tell me my benefit in kind amount is not about to go up by £8000 lol
I've done nothing different.
The decision was made because the bulkhead was behind the rear seats effectively making the load space unusable as a van but usable like a car.
As long as you don't do that there's no issue
The decision was made because the bulkhead was behind the rear seats effectively making the load space unusable as a van but usable like a car.
As long as you don't do that there's no issue
So how does a company stand with a kombi if it is used from work and taking say four employees to their place of work with their tools. I know the kombi is sold with a bulkhead behind the back seats as I saw one in the showroom one day. Do they get nailed because it carries their workforce around? Have to forgive me I'm getting a bit long in the tooth just glad Im retirement soon
topper
Member
Sorry I could well be wrong, but I thought it was the vivaro that had the bulk head installed? Mine doesn't have a bulkhead, for the occasion I need to put something longer over the seats or remove them entirely. What about installing quick release on the seats to remove them? Surely that helps the cause too.
Interesting as I have a full time PAYE job but also a (very) small business doing some surveying work at weekends. I don't claim any fuel (charged to the client at 45p a mile so below the HMRC taxable rate) and only claim 60% of any van expenses through my accounts and I'm not VAT registered, although i thought of doing so voluntarily to regain the £5K+ VAT I paid on the Kombi . As a sole trader does my 40% of private use class as benefit in kind? I always thought not as I'm not an employee.
And I used to work in VAT for HMC&E (don't worry I'm fully recovered it was many years ago) but BIK was an Inland Revenue thing back then so have no idea.
I'm currently considering winding up the self employed stuff as my work has dried up recently but of course HMRC can still come after you for up to six years!
I've always wondered about the status of my work as I survey rights of way for a major recreational vehicle users organisation, so do so on my trail bike (which is carried in the Kombi and I use another bike to commute to the day job).
Yep I get paid to go out and enjoy myself on the motorbike so is that really business, or am I being paid for "pleasure" (it's not all fun though as I do spend more time editing videos, drawing plans and writing reports than actually riding)
And I used to work in VAT for HMC&E (don't worry I'm fully recovered it was many years ago) but BIK was an Inland Revenue thing back then so have no idea.
I'm currently considering winding up the self employed stuff as my work has dried up recently but of course HMRC can still come after you for up to six years!
I've always wondered about the status of my work as I survey rights of way for a major recreational vehicle users organisation, so do so on my trail bike (which is carried in the Kombi and I use another bike to commute to the day job).
Yep I get paid to go out and enjoy myself on the motorbike
so is that really business, or am I being paid for "pleasure" (it's not all fun though as I do spend more time editing videos, drawing plans and writing reports than actually riding)
Bought my T6 last year for bussiness and claimed all the vat back on my return. This triggered a vat inspection, the vat lady asked if I used it for personal use which I replied only occasionally for shopping which was ok. She said if used for personal and business use only a percentage of vat could be reclaimed.
I declare 80% business and 20% private use on my vans so I claim 80% of the VAT and all other expenses, keeps HMRC happy.
