Valence U27-12XP Lifepo4 Lithium Battery -- How We Done It --

[DXX]

@DXX - I think your issue might be the WinOnX emulator you are using to run windows mate...

I’m a Mac user too - but went down the route of using an external hard drive and Bootcamp to install Windows 10 (Home) and it worked perfectly.

There’s good instructions on how to do it here:

Install Windows 10 on Mac using an external SSD [Video] - 9to5Mac

In this video walkthrough and tutorial we show you how to install Windows 10 on a Mac using an external SSD and Boot Camp drivers.

9to5mac.com

Give it a go - you don’t need to purchase Windows 10 and by installing it on an external drive, you’ll save valuable space on your Mac.

Good luck

Finally managed to install Windows 10 on the Macbook by downloading a free copy of Windows 10 on to a USB stick using UNetbootin software which made the USB loadable instead of using DVD R.
The internal HD was partitioned for Windows using format Mac OS Extended (Journaled).
Mac rebooted with Alt key, select EFI boot (USB) and starts Windows 10 installation. Select partition for installation and Delete it as the format is incorrect for Windows. This will replace the partition with the correct format for Windows 10.
Select the partition and install Windows 10.
This leaves Windows 10 installed on Macbook without the need for Bootcamp. In my case the Macbook was so old Bootcamp would only support Windows 7 or 8,

 

[andys]

I'd deliberately not fitted mine and all its kit because I was deciding whether to keep this van, or change and install it all in the new one. Having decided to keep this van indefinitely I went out to it this morning to plan where everything's going to go only to find the existing leisure battery absolutely dead as a dodo. My own fault, haven't been near it for about 10 weeks and hadn't plugged it in to keep it topped up. 8 hrs on recovery charge and it's not coming up above 6v so that's that, decision made for me

One question though, I intend to put my new Victron DCDC charger under the passenger seat with the battery replacing the old one under the driver's seat. Getting the feed for it is not a problem as I can cut into the existing battery feed cable that passed under the passenger seat before emerging under the driver's seat. I'm going to fit the thermostat switch I posted about earlier to interrupt the feed from the charger if the temperature drops below 5ºC so the sensor will be under one seat and the charger under the other.

Is there an easy way of getting a wire from one to the other? I'd rather not lift the carpet as I have accident damaged wrists and thumbs that don't grip very strongly and last time I did it on my T5 I nearly did some serious damage, and the gap between where the cab carpet meets the rear floor is severely congested as it is.

 

[andys]

I guess there isn't then, was hoping for a hidden conduit I push fishtape through, I'll have another poke about next time I get chance just in case.

Another question then, how are people securing the battery under the seat? Not really keen on ratchet strapping it so I'm thinking bending up some steel to make securing brackets, any pics of how anyone else has done it? Can't decide whether to mount it transversely or longitudinally either.

 

[Dilbert]

I guess there isn't then, was hoping for a hidden conduit I push fishtape through, I'll have another poke about next time I get chance just in case.

There is a channel that runs from under each seat to the other. I managed to get an additional 10mm shotgun cable through OK to my mains hook up charger which is mounted under the driver's seat. My channel was also pretty full from factory fit and camper fit cables as you can see here:



The photos of my mounting position under the passenger seat are already in this thread: Valence U27-12XP Lifepo4 Lithium Battery -- How We Done It --

 

[andys]

There is a channel that runs from under each seat to the other. I managed to get an additional 10mm shotgun cable through OK to my mains hook up charger which is mounted under the driver's seat. My channel was also pretty full from factory fit and camper fit cables as you can see here:

View attachment 91165

The photos of my mounting position under the passenger seat are already in this thread: Valence U27-12XP Lifepo4 Lithium Battery -- How We Done It --

Great thanks that's what I was hoping for. I also have a lot of cables that emerge there but didn't know if it was a conduit or if they'd been taken underneath outside. I'll try poking through, I want to put a length of 7 core through for future proofing.

 

[Dilbert]

I'll try poking through, I want to put a length of 7 core through for future proofing.

I used some stiff but flexible 4mm nylon tube I had around first. Then used that to pull the larger shotgun cable back though. It took several attempts to find a clear route through!

 

[DXX]

last up is id-11 . . . . .

one of the original two batterys i had from last year.

id-11 is currently the backup battery for the camping battery box > 12v Lithium Leisure Battery Box 138Ah 1766Wh -- How I Done It --

View attachment 86240

The original plan was to take a second Valence camping to swapout in the one in the battery box . . . the new idea is just to combine the two in parallel (if needed) with Anderson plugs . . . . but that a project for another day.

charge-discharge-charge test >>>>


id-11


View attachment 86249


using default Li-ion pre-set. . .

14.2v - its basically charged . .

View attachment 86250View attachment 86251View attachment 86252

discharge test next . .

slight change up now . . .

I've rigged a remote laptop up to the battery so we can monitor the BMS data remotely . .

View attachment 86260

and monitoring the data . . . .

View attachment 86261

you can see all the data PIDS changing . . .

WH Dsch is going up and SOC is going down . . .

same loads as before, 30A from the dehumidifier and 10A from the heat gun . . . . 40A overasll, that shout give us about 3hrs.


**********

edit . . .

were almost empty now . .

11.4v and SOC reading 3% . . . but still drawing 43Amps.

View attachment 86293



**********

edit:


right the low battery protect has kicked in at 11v . . .

this is the valence data . . .

SOC 1%, with an 11.4v rest voltage. so it looks like the 11v cut off point is about perfect for these batteries.


this is the final discharge: 128ah . . . 128/138 * 100 = 92.7% rated capacity

View attachment 86294

View attachment 86295

**********
next up is the recharge.

well go with the Victron 12/30/1 again . . but this time back to the default Lifepo4 profile . .

bulk/absorb @ 14.2v / 30A

storage @ 13.5v


View attachment 86296


**********

edit:

i think on the previous charge tests . . . .

not down powering the charger from the mains . . . . . and just hitting the "MODE" button to restart the cycle may have been an issue.

previusly it had reported the start voltage wrong . . .


this time it has picked up the correct start voltage . . .

**********
edit . . still charging.

2.45hrs in . . .

38ah in bulk
46ah in absorb . . .

im getting the feeling this charge cycle is going to "time out" again at 2hrs "max absorption" before the battery has recharged the 128ah that we drained from it earlier.


View attachment 86302View attachment 86303View attachment 86304


lets see . . . ill check back in 30mins

**********

edit . .

yep same thing has happened. . . the absors timed out at 2hrs . . and its moved into storage mode.

charging with 38ah + 57ah = 95ah . .

way short of the 128ah needed.

View attachment 86308View attachment 86309View attachment 86310



so ill restart the cycle by pressing the mode button.

View attachment 86311


**********

edit . . . well its finally fully charged. . . the second charge cycle put in 31.3ah and hit the 2hr absorption window then moved to storage mode.

added to the 1st charge cycles 95ah is (31.3ah + 95ah = 126ah)

which is back to the original 126ah we took from it.


View attachment 86323



View attachment 86325


**********

so even though on the default setting . . . said the battery was full.

we can see the numbers didn't add up. and there was still more charge to go in . . .

remember we are also working with a slightly lower voltage of 14.2v instead of 14.6v, maybe that makes a slight diference.


i think the easy fix is just to edit the default lithium profile and just extend the Absorption phase from 2hrs max to 3/4hrs max.


or even easier just start the cycle again . . .


**********

just for giggles i started the cycle again . . . . for a third time. . . .

it skipped bulk and went straight to absorb phase . . .

i let it run for 5mins . . . . but it only put on 0.1ah so i gave up and cancelled the test. (assuming it was starting another 2hr absorption session)




**********


End Test.

Just wondering if there have been any further developments with charging the U27-12XP with the Victron 12/30-1?
Is the default Victron lithium mode is best option?
I’m running the latest version of the App V5.35.

 

[Dilbert]

In theory you can create a User defined profile using the built in LifePo4 profile as a base with 14.6V absorption and 13.8V float/storage as per the battery spec. However, I would not push it to the maximum without an external Master BMS connected to keep the cell block balancing active and to cut-out charging and discharging if anything untoward happens internally in the battery (too high/too low cell block voltages, too high temperature, etc.).

I have built myself a Master BMS but I am currently not planning on changing from the Victron default lithium profiles on any of the chargers. I don't think there is any point pushing the limits of the battery in our applications. It will still charge to 100% SOC with the default Victron lithium settings of 14.2V absorption and 13.5V float/storage.

 

[Jollyvan]

As promised, here is the diagram that shows the configuration of the chargers, low voltage battery protection and low temperature charge control.

@Dilbert Is your installation complete and running? Are you happy with it? I am having trouble fitting the battery under the seat due to the large nut under the sportscraft swivel!!

 

[ched]

@Dilbert Is your installation complete and running? Are you happy with it? I am having trouble fitting the battery under the seat due to the large nut under the sportscraft swivel!!

There's two versions of the Sportscraft swivels mate – the 'leisure battery' version has the nut on the top side of the plate to create more space underneath.

 

[Dilbert]

Are you happy with it?

The original setup you quoted was subsequently changed to the fail safe version (post #124) so in the event of a fault, the battery was protected from low temperature charging. When I did this, I changed the relays to low coil current versions because the relays are active all the time. This was described in the subsequent posts above.

This all worked fine but I then moved on to build a Master BMS to keep the internal battery cell block balancing active. The Master BMS also provides 'Enable charge' and 'Enable Load' switched outputs - which are disabled in event of an Over Temperature, Over Voltage or Under Voltage condition in the internal battery cell blocks. I have integrated this into the system so the Enable Charge (+12V) from the Master BMS is feeding the BMV relay (COM contact) and the Enable Load (+12V) is connected to the Smart Battery Protect (H to enable contact) manual switching input pin.

• Over Voltage disables charging.
• Under voltage disables the load.
• Over temperature disables both charging and load.

The main configuration is essentially the same and works fine. I am just looking forward to being able to check out the Valence battery in a real off grid camping situation!

 

[Jollyvan]

There's two versions of the Sportscraft swivels mate

Thanks @ched I will have a look. Are you all installed and working?

 

[Jollyvan]

I then moved on to build a Master BMS

That's all gone over my head now!!! I will have to rely on manually isolating the battery in cold weather.

 

[Dilbert]

I will have to rely on manually isolating the battery in cold weather.

The original diagram and hardware I shared prevents charging in low temperatures. That is one of the highest risks you have in damaging a LifePo4 battery together with over discharge. This again is protected in the setup shown.

 

[ched]

Thanks @ched I will have a look. Are you all installed and working?

Not yet, but getting there slowly - I currently have the passenger seat base out of the van so I can work everything out position wise.

I too have the Sportscraft swivel bases, but the leisure battery versions I mentioned earlier, with the nut on top.

The Valence definitely fits underneath, but I’ve modified the seat base in a few places to get it exactly where I wanted it (and safely secured).

I plan to post a bit of a write-up on the process at some point - it’s just finding the time at the min...

Here’s a preview of where I’m at with it all:

 

[Jollyvan]

OK thanks for that. I am roughly at the same point with the seat base out. About to order the Victron kit from @travelvolts and move onto the wiring.

 

[andys]

Interested to see these photos. I got back late last night and decided to yank the seats out to have a trial fit so I could get on with it today and hit a snag.
Mine is going under the drivers seat and if I have it widthways across the back of the seat base it will fit, but I really don’t want the terminals facing forward as a severe accident could force the battery forward and short on the front of the seat base.
If I have it lengthways, the angle of the seat base, coupled with the added thickness of the carpet and the enormous amount of camper specific wiring emerging through the centre are forcing the end of the battery nearest the front upwards and it looks like it may not fit. I could cut and shut the looms to reduce the amount of cable in there but I’m not even sure that would be enoug and would take a long time.
I’ll trial fit the seat again and post some pics later.

 

[andys]

Don't know where my head was at last night but it fits fine, I think was working on the assumption that the bottom of the seat is flush with the top of the base and of course it isn't, apart from where it bolts on. Spent a fruitful morning tracing and labelling all the underseat cables so now it's just a case of cutting a couple of boards to size to mount everything on and find the best positions for them. Then fasten the battery down, looks like I'm going to have to resort to ratchet straps fastened to the seatbase bolts and maybe a wooden buffer between it and the front of the seatbase just for belt and braces.
Everything looks like it should fit fine though. Famous last words.

 

[Jollyvan]

Apropos to nothing. I understand that low temperature charging can damage Lithium batteries but how do people charge electric vehicles (these valence batteries are out of an electric truck) in low temperatures?

 

[andys]

Apropos to nothing. I understand that low temperature charging can damage Lithium batteries but how do people charge electric vehicles (these valence batteries are out of an electric truck) in low temperatures?

I can confirm that my 3 series has recharged fine at -10 so I imagine the battery chemistry has improved over these early Li-ion types or there's some clever circuitry going on. Or it could be the cells are heated.