CRS Performance

[CRS Performance]

After many months of debate on the best low suspension for the Transporter buses, we have eventually taken our development to another level.
Over the last 6 months we have shown that probably the best all round kit with sensible drops is the KONI shocks and H&R spring kits (correctly spec'd).
We have now had the opportunity to tackle the big drop scene and back to back test the ever popular B14 against a similar H&R/KONI set up.

Here is the story :-

A Forum member called to discuss his needs and ask what we thought was the best way to run his van low and drive well. After a long chat he decided to trust our experience and bring his van to us for fitment.
When he arrived we were surprised that the car was already very low and had a B14 kit fitted (the client had spoken about a B14 but we hadn't actually realised this was already fitted). Due to its popularity we were keen to do this comparison.

I asked the client if we could go for a test drive before commencing work so we can do a back to back comparison.

The B14 kit was removed with care as it wasn't very old and clearly had some resale value. We fitted the rear components first because the rear was really bad over speed bumps and I wanted to be sure we could improve that issue before taking on the front end. The road test of the rear proved a massive improvement over the same speed bumps initially tested so we continued with the front.

After completing the front and taking many photos and measurements we had the set up and ride height perfect. The vehicle with the B14 kit was very harsh over bumps and the rear was bottoming out with an aggressive sound. Smooth roads were ok but the slightest sign of a pot hole or drain cover was a brace yourself moment.

We set the new system up with a perfect rake angle and ride height low at 70+ mm .
Speed bumps were now a breeze at 20 mph with virtually no movement on the rear axle or noise as before.
It was an eye opening difference actually, and the results were like night and day.

Although the Client has only driven a few hundred miles since the installation, he is delighted with the improvement in comfort.

The van was a T32 heavy spec, DSG with full camper conversion.

The kit we fitted had a new specification rear end which proved with out doubt this kit is a serious contender, 20 inch wheels and KONI shocks adjusted to cope with the increase in unsprung weight.

A truly first class result and thanks to a patient customer who allowed us to do all the trials and adjustments we need to do. Many thanks Sir .


H&R/Koni coilover kit - a CRS development.

Review: CRS Performance UK

Very pleased today ...had fitted Koni dampers fitted with EBC yellow stuff pads ......Quick..Friendly..and listen’d to my needs......my T32 204 auto had a habit that it wanted to lift the front end and spin the wheels when pulling away (Steve. Recommended adjusting the lift on the dampers...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Wills]

Interesting write up. What ARB’s were fitted?
So who’s the lucky guinea pig? Own up....

 

[CRS Performance]

H&R anti roll bars were installed in the Van and the owner will be commenting on this in due course , He is away driving around in his new ride for the weekend .

 

[Deaks]

Hi CRS Performance

I am really interested in this kit you mention. We have a lwb t32 T6 that is currently on standard suspension. Currently a bit undecided which way to go, either up swamper style, or down a bit as the 19" wheels look lost in the arches at the moment. The van needs to drive well, not pitch and roll and not make my fillings fall out over speed bumps and pot holes.
Tyre wise I was thinking of putting either a 265/50/19 or 265/50/19 all season tyre in place of the current 245/45/19. These will fill the arches up a bit and make the crappy roads more bearable. But hopefully still some space for a mild 40 - 50mm drop.

The other option is to lift it 35 -45 mm and stick on some big swamper tyres, my only worry with this is that the road handling will be worse and more pitching and roll in corners than the current standard setup.

The van will eventually have a pop top and a slim kitchen, as we will also want to transport one possibly two motorbikes from time to time.

My only experience of aftermarket suspension was a short ride in a van dropped about 60mm or so on van slams, I definitely don’t want that set up for sure!

Here is a picture of how the van sits now (empty).

It’s very clear you know your stuff, so would be interested in your recommendations.

Thanks in advance


Deaks

 

[CRS Performance]

HI Deaks many thanks for your inquiry and either way we have solid professional solutions . UP or Down
Is the van 4 wd or front wheel drive . ? It looks long wheel base ?? and assume 2.0 litre Diesel motor ?

Don't worry about the Swamper being more unstable with our shocks set correctly it will feel great and handle perfect . , no lose of comfort at all, in fact it will be improved! .
The kit we are talking about in the thread above is a very hi quality kit that can lower the vehicle up to 80 mm which is probably not the correct kit for your needs ( from what you said above )
We do a lot of Vans lowered to 40 to 50 mm and maintain maximum comfort and great handling so I think this would be the best option for you to consider.

The Kit in the thread above is £1495.00 (2 year warranty )
The sport shocks are £695.00 for the T 32 hubs and springs are £245.00 .
if we are convenient to fit £100.00 all pricing including Vat .
If you go the Swamper route the complete kit is £895.00 incl vat 30 mm lift

Look forward to hearing from you . I have a stock shortage on the shocks at the moment but this will be sorted in the next few weeks

best wishes
Steve

 

[Deaks]

HI Deaks many thanks for your inquiry and either way we have solid professional solutions . UP or Down
Is the van 4 wd or front wheel drive . ? It looks long wheel base ?? and assume 2.0 litre Diesel motor ?

Don't worry about the Swamper being more unstable with our shocks set correctly it will feel great and handle perfect . , no lose of comfort at all, in fact it will be improved! .
The kit we are talking about in the thread above is a very hi quality kit that can lower the vehicle up to 80 mm which is probably not the correct kit for your needs ( from what you said above )
We do a lot of Vans lowered to 40 to 50 mm and maintain maximum comfort and great handling so I think this would be the best option for you to consider ,
The Kit in the thread above is £1495.00 ( 2 year warranty ) The sport shocks are £695.00 for the T 32 hubs and springs are £245.00 . if we are convenient to fit £100.00 all pricing including Vat .
If you go the Swamper route the complete kit is £895.00 incl vat 30 mm lift

Look forward to hearing from you . I have a stock shortage on the shocks at the moment but this will be sorted in the next few weeks

best wishes Steve

Hi Steve

Thanks for your reply.
In answer to your questions......

Van is a 2WD model, it’s the 204 DSG version. yes it is a LWB body type.

For our needs, I think maybe Up is better suited than down. I was thinking of trying to board the Isle of Man ferry for the TT in a dropped van may be tricky.

I guess I had assumed that higher meant more roll and mushy feeling like driving an old Mitsubishi shogun!!!!

The other question is what size wheel and tyre, we have a set of 17” devonports that could be used, and also 19x9 wolfrace x10 that are currently fitted.

I found a picture of a van running 255/55/19 tyres so I guess they will fit, especially if lifted 30mm.
A few people have said that that is too big, and it would be an expensive gamble to get wrong. The other options are either 235/55/19 or 265/50/19. The chances of killing wheels with low profile tyres in my pot hole ridden area are all to real I’m afraid.

I really like the idea of a semi-swamper that has the lift, but has tyres that really perform well on the road coupled with suspension that gives that ‘on rails’ feeling even when pushing on a bit.
The Van will very rarely be used off road, apart from the odd campsite!!!

Here is the van with the 255/55/19 fitted. Not sure what a wheel that big would do to the DSG gearing though!!

No worries waiting for stock, I’m not in desperate rush, I’d rather make sure the choices made are the right ones.

thanks again


Deaks (Andrew)

 

[markob]

you should be ok on the IOM ferry, plenty of Lamborghinis and Ferraris seem to get over here easily enough

Hi Steve

Thanks for your reply.
In answer to your questions......

Van is a 2WD model, it’s the 204 DSG version. yes it is a LWB body type.

For our needs, I think maybe Up is better suited than down. I was thinking of trying to board the Isle of Man ferry for the TT in a dropped van may be tricky.

I guess I had assumed that higher meant more roll and mushy feeling like driving an old Mitsubishi shogun!!!!

The other question is what size wheel and tyre, we have a set of 17” devonports that could be used, and also 19x9 wolfrace x10 that are currently fitted.

I found a picture of a van running 255/55/19 tyres so I guess they will fit, especially if lifted 30mm.
A few people have said that that is too big, and it would be an expensive gamble to get wrong. The other options are either 235/55/19 or 265/50/19. The chances of killing wheels with low profile tyres in my pot hole ridden area are all to real I’m afraid.

I really like the idea of a semi-swamper that has the lift, but has tyres that really perform well on the road coupled with suspension that gives that ‘on rails’ feeling even when pushing on a bit.
The Van will very rarely be used off road, apart from the odd campsite!!!

Here is the van with the 255/55/19 fitted. Not sure what a wheel that big would do to the DSG gearing though!!

No worries waiting for stock, I’m not in desperate rush, I’d rather make sure the choices made are the right ones.

thanks again


Deaks (Andrew)

View attachment 58987

 

[CRS Performance]

That wheel looks good , can you measure the total diameter and compare to a standard Van from those measurements we can see if the speedo gearing and fuel consumption will be ok .

 

[Deaks]

Hi Steve

The standard 17” Devonports with vw issue conti 215/60/17 gives a diameter of 690mm and circumference of 2167mm.
The 19" wolf race with 255/45/19 mozzarellas sport tyres currently fitted, have a diameter of 712mm and circumference of 2237mm.
The tyre I would like to fit is a 255/55/19 which has a diameter of 763mm and circumference of 2397mm. The van in my previous post (the black and white picture) is just one I found on the forum, so I’m not 100% that there are no fitment issues going that big.

The difference between the standard wheels and the biggest option is -9.61% on the speedo according will they fit.com.

Maybe the 255/55/19 is too big and adversely affect the gearing too much. A 265/50/19 may be a better option if you think the big tyres are too big.

I will most likely get the engine (and possibly the dsg box) remapped anyway, so it should be more than capable of pushing a high gear ratio.

TIA

Deaks

 

[T6180]

Here's my 2penny worth.

B14s are about 40mm lower than standard out the box and can drop 70mm. At full drop they can be firm depending on your tyre choice. I've know 255/45/19s on b14s wound down to be comfortable. I ran 255/45/18s on my B14s wound fully down and the ride was nice

I've used H&R deep coilovers with a drop total of 100mm with about 15mm left and these were a really nice ride, even with the rear adjusters removed. With these I was running 245/45/19 tyres

I'm now running solows with 20mm left in adjustment on 235/35/20 tyres. The ride is smoother than both the b14s and H&R deeps. It's just firm from the 35mm profile tyres so with 245, 255/45 I think this will be the sweet spot overall

 

[Shredder]

@Deaks who would you be thinking of for a DSG software tune ??

 

[Deaks]

@Deaks who would you be thinking of for a DSG software tune ??

I don’t know to be honest.
Do you know anyone?

Deaks

 

[jaro]

Look for a TVS Engineering dealer in your area the difference is large for "+"

 

[Shredder]

I don’t know to be honest.
Do you know anyone?

Coincidentally, I'm currently talking to TVS to understand exactly what it is they offer. It appears there maybe a generic DQ500 map to improve acknowledged 'driveability' issues with the box but what I want to understand much more fully is how they remap the DSG to specific engine maps (in my case REVO). Early indications are that they do a custom tune to each van from dyno data. Personally, I wouldn't deal with a dealer on this question .... I'm going direct to TVS to make my mind up from what they say

 

[CRS Performance]

Here's my 2penny worth.

B14s are about 40mm lower than standard out the box and can drop 70mm. At full drop they can be firm depending on your tyre choice. I've know 255/45/19s on b14s wound down to be comfortable. I ran 255/45/18s on my B14s wound fully down and the ride was nice

I've used H&R deep coilovers with a drop total of 100mm with about 15mm left and these were a really nice ride, even with the rear adjusters removed. With these I was running 245/45/19 tyres

I'm now running solows with 20mm left in adjustment on 235/35/20 tyres. The ride is smoother than both the b14s and H&R deeps. It's just firm from the 35mm profile tyres so with 245, 255/45 I think this will be the sweet spot overall

The purpose of my original post was to show that you can do low with out total loss of comfort , The reality is simple, the B 14 and H&R Deep ( both of which dont appear on any manufacturers web sites ) use MONO tube hi pressure shock absorbers . MONO tube shocks by nature offer a capable but harsh ride compared to Dual tube type shocks . The solow kit which is a B14 kit fitted with the Bilstein B 4 DUAL Tube shock should ride better , I personally dont agree with the ridiculous drops that involve hub mods and removal of the rear spring seats purely based on safety and practicalities .
The H&R kit we sell is Dual tube Coil over kit that is an official H&R product and is T U V approved , has the big advantage that it has Damping adjustable shocks which are great for controlling bigger wheels and tuning the performance to suit owners needs . This is not a feature offered in , most of the popular offerings and why many many conversations on all media go on about loss of comfort from bigger wheels .

 

[coullstar]

Sounds interesting, picking up a T32 shuttle this weekend and would probably look to lower about 50mm to keep it subtle. We will have rear seats removed and drive a lot of A & B roads so good damping is a must. Probably run on 18in wheels or possibly 19's.

So is your kit a coilover kit or a damper kit with base drop and allows the rear to be adjusted over a narrow range to prevent coil compression?

 

[CRS Performance]

Hi, If the van ( T32) is going to be empty most of the time there definitely wont be any "over compression" of the springs to worry about . The rear spring on a coil over kit and a lowering kit to some extent is actually designed for some of the coils to be coil bound. Its normal and it serves another purpose in the lowering process .
50 mm is on the limit for a SPORT kit which looks like a normal shock coupled to a Sport spring which lowers the stance, These kits offer a hi level of comfort and performance. ( but not adjustable height ) . A "Height adjustable kit" commonly know as a "coil over kit" does have the capacity to lower from 40 to 80 mm . if the lower level is chosen the ride does get firmer because the suspension travel is reduced by the amount of lowering . 50 mm will be extremely comfortable

The Kit we are hi-lighting in this thread is by Far the best kit available on the market . the main reason is that it offers Damping adjustability as well as height . The other popular kits only do height adjustability . Its also a fully fledged T U V approved COIL OVER kit not a Hybrid Sleeve over kit which most of the competition are .
It is expensive, as you would expect but you really do get what you pay for and I often wonder why owners buy such expensive vans and fit cheap suspension kits to them.

 

[coullstar]

Totally understand, I've tweeked a lot of the cars I've owned so had many spring and damper kits and coilover kits as well. Best so far was KW's on my old Rs4.

So the kit your selling is a "coilover" kit? Is it developed in house? I like the idea of the damping adjustment, is it compression and rebound?

 

[CRS Performance]

We do many kits ! various sport kits with adjustable or self adjusting shocks coupled with a lowering kit. , we do a KONI equipped equivalent of the B 14 with rebound and height adjustability, this kit is called a sleeve over and is developed by the same people who do the Bilstein B 14 in Germany ( sleeve overs are hybrid sport shocks modified to take an adjustable spring perch not a real coil over as they are known ) . Then top of the range is the Proper coil over kit in this thread .

The Coil over kit is an H&R product but KONI manufacture the shocks for them . Its rebound adjustable . The bump motion is more controlled by the stiffer spring so it doesn't need to be adjustable in Road vehicles . ​

KW is a competent brand ( KONI put them on the map making their dampers in the early days ) the Variant 3 is pretty good but the most popular solution for the troubled DRC in an RS4 is my special KONI adjustable kit that we tune for the RS4 platform we do approx. 5 a month of these . Fabulous results and very popular on the RS246 forum where i generally get most of my customers .
If you want to discuss these options in more detail please call me 07469785932

 

[coullstar]

Thanks, picking up the bus later this week so will hopefully be in touch soon. My RS4 was the original old school one so DRC etc, still miss it....