Valence U27-12XP Lifepo4 Lithium Battery -- How We Done It --

[Dellmassive]

Just to clarify.

The Valence lifepo4 can be mounted side ways... It's in the manual.

I'll post later..

And you no not need any external BMS.

I regularly discharge at 45A , 55A or above when testing..... Above that things can start to warm up unless you are using super large cable sets.

 

[Dellmassive]

@Hickey


My valence is in and running, just about drained it over the weekend so was my first chance to see what capacity it has, pretty happy as is wasn't totally dead when I started and I think it'll take a few more amps aswell

 

[Dellmassive]

@Hickey s install . . .

Still waiting on a battery monitor and shunt, will update when it's in.

 

[Dellmassive]

@Hickey Renogy battery monitor cloan on Valence battery . . .

Just fitted a reasonably priced monitor, looks like a copy of the renogy one but half the price, came with no instructions.


[£41.32 28% OFF] TF03K 100V350A Coulomb Counter Meter Battery Capacity Indicator Voltage Current Display TTL232 Li-ion Lithium lifepo Lead Acid eBike RV with 1M Shielded Cable Electronic Accessories & Supplies from Electronic Components & Supplies on banggood.com
TF03K 100V350A Coulomb Counter Meter Battery Capacity Indicator Voltage Current Display TTL232 Li-ion Lithium lifepo Lead Acid eBike RV with 1M Shielded Cable
m.banggood.com

 

[Dellmassive]

@Hickey install #2

Hickey said:
Just fitted a reasonably priced monitor, looks like a copy of the renogy one but half the price, came with no instructions.


[£41.32 28% OFF] TF03K 100V350A Coulomb Counter Meter Battery Capacity Indicator Voltage Current Display TTL232 Li-ion Lithium lifepo Lead Acid eBike RV with 1M Shielded Cable Electronic Accessories & Supplies from Electronic Components & Supplies on banggood.com
TF03K 100V350A Coulomb Counter Meter Battery Capacity Indicator Voltage Current Display TTL232 Li-ion Lithium lifepo Lead Acid eBike RV with 1M Shielded Cable
m.banggood.com

View attachment 85277

View attachment 85278

View attachment 85279
Click to expand...

those ground cables look very thin?

The grounds should be the thickest of the whole system and be capable of carrying the MAX current form ALL your loads at once . . .

so it should be as thick (or thicker) than all the combined red cables you have coming off the red battery plus post.

have a look at deaks as a comparison . . . .

....

Dellmassive said:
those ground cables look very thin?

The grounds should be the thickest of the whole system and be capable of carrying the MAX current form ALL your loads at once . . .

so it should be as thick (or thicker) than all the combined red cables you have coming off the red battery plus post.



View attachment 85291



have a look at deaks as a comparison . . . .


View attachment 85292
Click to expand...

They're the cables going to my Sargent unit installed by the conversion company 3 years ago they do look a bit thin but to be fair I only run a fridge, lights and USB sockets, ran everything on full last wknd and nothing got warm so think It should be ok



****

Hickey said:
They're the cables going to my Sargent unit installed by the conversion company 3 years ago they do look a bit thin but to be fair I only run a fridge, lights and USB sockets, ran everything on full last wknd and nothing got warm so think It should be ok

gotcha,

id replace the main ground battery to Shunt and Shunt to ground cable with a nice beefy one, (for future proofing)

Then maybe fit a ground bus bar for the other loose grounds,

the main power and main grounds are the most important cables of the system.


***

 

[Dellmassive]

Will do is 10mm enough? have looked at bus bars just struggling for space and could do with some that come straight off the terminals, found a few but nothing that looks perfect

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

10mm2 is rated for 70A . . .


View attachment 85295

Plain Copper Battery Cable For Auto & Marine Use | 12 Volt Planet

Plain copper battery/starter cable suitable for low voltage auto and marine applications. High temperature, high flex and siamese types available.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

.

Busbars | 12 Volt Planet

Busbars for distributing power around a vehicle or boat in various configurations and with marine grade fixings to resist corrosion.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[Dellmassive]

everybody with a lithium battery should have a read through this Victron Bible . . . (basic knowledge and safety advice)

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf

..

 

[Dellmassive]

more info thats related:

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

RECOMMENDED INVERTER CABLE AND BREAKER OR FUSE SIZES

RECOMMENDED INVERTER CABLE AND BREAKER OR FUSE SIZES

www.t6forum.com

T6 - Second battery wiring diagram

Second battery for transporter ( not California)

www.t6forum.com

Tpi 2046279, T6 Repair Instructions For Voltage Supply Of 2nd Battery

TPI: 2046279, T6: repair instructions for voltage supply of 2nd battery Tool and components: - Cable for 2nd battery 16mm² (7E0.971.044) - Corrugated tube (N.107.326.01) - Cable tie (N.106.622.01 or similar) - Grommet (2D0.906.376.S) - Butyl (AKL.450.005.05) - Wrapping tape - Holder of...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Dellmassive]

4way battery link up, with comms . .




...






...


Run the Valence 12.12 module diag software.

and go to the Batt Sys info tab and hit scan . . .


it will ping all the availible battery ids and report back what it can find . . .

in our case . . 3,4,10,19







.

comms interconects.



.



*


and parallel power interconnects . .







...



then its easy to read each battery directly . .





.



The coms standard is RS485,


so you could back up longer interconect leads if you wished.

a twisted pair cable should be used for long distances . . . but for the sack of a van and most lickly under 6meters a normal 4core cable should be fine,

just remember the 5v supply from the USB side, so dont use cable that too thin on the cores.

a nice bit of 4core beldon will do the job nicley.


****


so you can build your battery bank and ibnslall the monitoring cable fitted in the van, so that just the USB link is tucked away ready for a laptop or tablet connection when needed.



****

 

[Dellmassive]

** NEW PRODUCT **

New Temp & Humid monitor, £15 !!!


Better range, better APP, better battery life, more data resolution . . . . and now if finally sends you alerts to your phone !!!

great for beer & food fridges, also Lithium Battery & van temp monitoring.




*************************

Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It --

@Dellmassive Did that bag for your 35l Dometic? If so would you mind sharing where you got it from please. Might get one for mine

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

valence-u27-12xp-lifepo4

capacity testing with a charge-discharge-charge cycle.

its time to test ID-4 battery for fully capacity .

well start by hooking up a BM2 meter,

and a fully charge with the Victron 12/30/1



its already 98% charged so shouldn't take long . .



it starts pulling 19.6A from the 30A availible. . .




the tartget charged voltage will be 14.2v which is the Victron default for Lifpo4 . . .



as the voltage rises above 14.0v the internal cell balance kicks in . . .





****

The battery is classed as fully charged when the current drops below 1amp and the voltage is above 14.2v (and the internal cell balance settles down)



Edit: next stage will be shown here . . . . . . . . . .

100% 14.22v 0.4A im happy with that . . . .


130ah / 138ah * 100 = 95.2% rated capacity



..

Discharge test next.



setup.

800va inveter, dehumidifier and heat gun drawing 40/45A






Ah meter zeroed . .




40A load verified with a second meter . .




..







inverter shut off set to 11v


ill run at 40/45A untill we get near the end . . . . then ill drop to 20A so that any voltage sag over the cables doesnt effect the final result . . .


TBC . . . . . .

here is the thermals . .




.


3hours later (drawing 45A, then 20A , . . . .

we fall of the cliff.....




we get a low battery warning , . . .




.

as the voltage drops / . . . .




.

discharge result . . . . . 130ah 1664wh 3:18hrs !!!!








.

next up is the recharge test to get back to 100% ...


The valence software shows the SOC wrong . . ., but it does show 30A input charge current . . . . . so lets see what the Victron 12/30/1 can put back in . .






charging at 30A things start to get a bit warm . . . .

you can see the 50A Anderson connectors getting hot at 30A continuous . .

edit: the heat was coming from the power meter and travelling along the short cables to the Anderson plugs , when the power meter was removed the Anderson were cool to the touch @ 30A / 14v









.





tbc . . .

Run out of pics (limit)




final recharge results:












************************

 

[Dellmassive]

Next up is id-10 battery.


its been fully charged to 100% on the Victron 12/30/1 charger . . .





charging at 30A things get warm . . .





.

all reset and ready for the test . . .




,

discharge test . . . achieved 126ah




.




...

drawing 45A for 3 hours . . .

126ah to the 11.0v cut off point.

126ah / 138ah x 100 = 91.3% capacity

recharge test next.

 

[Dellmassive]

it looks like im having issues with the default Victron Lifepo4 charge profile . .

its timing out at 2 hours in the Absorbtion phase before the battery is charged and moving to storage mode . . before the battery is full. (and thats after 2 hours at 30A flat out. . . . but this battery needs more)



the below shows the bulk charge and absorb of 93.2ah . . . far short of the 126ah expected . . (as tested in the discharge test above)





i adjusting the settings of the profile to extend the max absorption time from 2hrs to 5hrs which kicked the charger back into life and started charging at the correct rate again . .

i just made a new preset called "Val" with the change in it (2hrs to 5hrs max)





.....





The battery is again accepting 10a - 15a charge again - - - - untill full.



------
Edit:


whats to be learned . . ?


well the default charge profile doesn't give enough time (2hrs max) for the battery to completely absorb all the ah back in (due to the large size of the battery 126/138ah) . . . before it drops to 13.5v storage mode.


to get around this you can restart the charge / charger (disconnect from battery and reconnect) or ( press the mode button on the charger) to restart a new charge cycle.


or you can go into the advanced settings and adjust the max absorb time . . .


i like the data in the app for one complete charge cycle so ill run with these new settings for the next few cycles.




Happy Charging people . . . =]



ill add in another screen shot of the total charged ah when its complete.


*********************


Edit:


The charge profile is still cutting off short . .


I've tweeked the charge profile again to match the Valence data sheet . .

14.6v charge voltage

and

13.8v float/storage

then extended the Absorb time to 5hrs . . .













ill update as we move on . . .

edit: charge spec sheet




****





looks like were fully charged . . . the battery is drawing no current from the charger and the balance has completed . . .








Heres the BM2 readout for the cycle . .

 

[Dilbert]

The charge profile is still cutting off short . .

Have you still got Adaptive Absorbsion Time switched on? I noticed in your first 'Val' profile it was on. Both the Victron Li-Ion profiles (main drop down and advance preset list) have this feature switched off.

You also have Float voltage set to 0V. It should be set to 'Off'. This makes the charger skip the float phase so you have just bulk and storage. But I think you changed that in version 2.

 

[Dellmassive]

next up will be ID-10 Full charge cycle after last nights discharge.

with the new "VAL" charge profile . .

30A full rate
14.6v bulk (1day max)
14.6v absrb (5hr max)
13.8v storage




The battery (id-10) was discharged by around 126ah to 11.0v cut off at 45A for the fist 80% then 20A for the last 20%



......*******

edit:

so far so good . . .

1hr44 in, 30A straigh, 53ah charged so far, . . .14.29v at this point.




BM2 readout so far . . .



.

edit:

5hrs later were still going . .


still in abs mode thankfully . .




so at this point:

2.51hrs bulk 88Ah
2.46hrs abs 39ah

this is the BM2 readout . .





interestingly the charger is keeping the absorb stage held as the battery is "top-balancing" the cells . .

you can see when the balancer is in action from the charger reaout . . . the current jumps about all over the place from 0.1 to 3amps . .





were just waiting for the cell balance to finish to see if the charger moves into storage mode . . .




TBC . . . .. .









edit:

well i ended the test by disconecting the charger , . . .


it was still in absorb mode . .

but has replaced the 127ah that was drawn from the battery and fully completed a top balance .. . . so happy with that . .




not sure why it hasnt detected the drop in current as fully changed and moved to storage mode? . . . maybe it was going to time out on the 5hrs set?

maybe ill change it to 3hrs next time.




end test for Id-10

127/138 * 100 = 92% capacity

 

[Dellmassive]

valence-u27-12xp BMS


*** WARNINIG - NEVER OPEN OR PLAY WITH LITHIUM BATTERY'S OR CELLS THEY CAN BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS ***

lets have a look at the BMS . . . ill do it so you dont have too =]

its behind the side panel, take out the carry straps . . .



black sticky caps then T15 torx machine screws. watch out for the gasket on the door . .




so here it is . . .




the thermals show no heat activity.



first up was this conector (2pin, yel/wht). . i looks like its the current shunt on the output as the current reading went up to max randon number when it was disconnected . . .



.



.
next was this conector. . 5pin brn/yel/wht,blk/blk

removing this the whole board went down and we lost coms . . this looks like the balaence wires to the battery cell banks.





.

this 8pin (4pairs, black cores) looks like they are the temp sensors on the cell banks . . . as again we lost the temp data for sensors 1,2,3,4





the PCBA is the main PCB temp sensor . . . which is here . . . (seen buy increasing data value when warmed)




....


BMS bleed resistors for the balancing circuit look like they are here . . thats why the authorised way to lay the battery down (on its side) is so that these resistors and PCB are at the top and dont cause heat soak to travel up through the battery. or cause an overheat issue.





there is a larger block here and here . . . .




this is the status LED wire (3pin red/green LED)




and these are the RS485 data bus in/out links . . .





.


so it looks like the BMS is self powered via the battery . . . and its just the coms that is powered from the 5v USB link cable.



***

what im looking to find out is if the inter/intra cell balaencing will run without the coms lead plugged in and running as has been sudjested else where . .





edit:


just caught the cell balancer running . . .






.







TBC . . . . .

 

[Dellmassive]

discharge test for id-19....

from fully charged: 128ah to 11v cut off point drawing 45A/20A for 3hrs straight.





now time for the recharge . . . .

another slight tweek on the victron charger settings . . .

14.6 bulk @ 30A

absorb - adaptive, 3hr max

13.8v storage




lets go . . . . .





edit:

update . . .

so far we are 2.43hrs in @ 83.8Ah and still in bulk mode . . .





....

edit:


Final results . .

battery fully charged. (but was still in abs mode, i just disconnected battery once it was full)

120.ah in bulk mode,
7.8ah in abs mode,
didnt reach storage mode before i ended the charge cycle.




for the next test ill try the default Lifepo4 mode again>>>

.

 

[Hickey]

Mount for renogy copy shunt, well worth £1.37 as its a pretty awkward shape.

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/32826491459.html?spm=a2g0n.seo-amp-detail.productBottomBar.viewDetails&_gl=1*99i8y*_ga*aDJFZ0R6SkJYTHFuVHRULVEtLWEtTDJMNVNvaUdRTUpaVnFNeXNBSU9zZjRONEFYZkR0ZXgwQm5xd21nYVNZQg

..

 

[Dilbert]

not sure why it hasnt detected the drop in current as fully changed and moved to storage mode? . . . maybe it was going to time out on the 5hrs set?

It is strange the charger is not coming out of absorption mode on it's own. Do you know what the tail current threshold is for your charger? Is the cell bank balancing (extra current) confusing it? When the charge current decreases below the Tail current the charger should switch into float\storage mode.

 

[Dellmassive]

i thought that @Dilbert .

and even checked the Victron manual . . . i suppose we wont know as its in the hands of the Victron Firmware algorithm Gods . .

i let it run for an hour at 0.2A (200mA) @ the full 14.60V, with the balancer settled . . . . . . it just kept on. =]

Victron 12/30/1 bluesmart charger,














well see what happens on the next battery.
..

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Blue-Smart-IP22-Charger-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-IT-PT-(A4).pdf

.