Suspension - what have I got?! [Resolved]

[AeonMach]

Ok, I knew I was lowered but didn’t know the details (I know…I just liked the general vehicle And she was super low mileage and a fair bargain for loaded spec!). The dealer mentioned new 30mm lowering springs - sourced from Leighton’s. Possibly H&R? My ride height is about 395mm (wheel centre to top of wheel arch).
Ride is perhaps a little firm but good/sporty. Handles very well.

I’ve finally managed to get a better look underneath (thanks to my unfortunate undercarriage plastic tray damage!) - pics below.
Clearly some Bilstein shocks… but are these Bilstein B14s or do I just have Bilstein shocks (B4 or 6??) and coils???

General details: 2019 T6 LWB Kombi T32 204PS DSG 4mo. 20” alloys on 275/35/R20s [footnote 1].
Are Bilstein B14s even suitable for T32 4mo? Due to load rating?

Footnote 1:
Yes 275/35/R20s are 102 load rated but, despite being T32, the doorplate has a confusing 102/104 quoted! My understanding is that a Kombi isn’t a class 7 so moot - at least from an MoT perspective.

 

[Paul Greathead]

Bilstien good brand but that looks pretty old. I had b14 coilovers I had no problems with mine and the solo kit also and had no problems on my t32s think Iv had both on a few vans and worked well and I’m a trades man with heavy materials

 

[AeonMach]

Bump!

I think after some further reading that I’m on something like Bilstein B6 or B8s - ie ‘standard’ shocks rather than coilovers - combined with lowering springs…?
But I was hoping that one of the forum’s resident pro gurus could easily ID them…!
@BognorMotors @CRS Performance

 

[BognorMotors]

Bump!

I think after some further reading that I’m on something like Bilstein B6 or B8s - ie ‘standard’ shocks rather than coilovers - combined with lowering springs…?
But I was hoping that one of the forum’s resident pro gurus could easily ID them…!
@BognorMotors @CRS Performance

We are a Bilstein dealer so in the right situation to talk you through the options. DM your contact details and we can have a chat.

 

[AeonMach]

We are a Bilstein dealer so in the right situation to talk you through the options. DM your contact details and we can have a chat.

Many thanks Oli @BognorMotors. Simon gave me a bell and I think he's solved the puzzle (the colour-way was the key):

For anyone interested, my shocks are TransporterHQ/SoLow shocks - basically a modified Bilstein B8 strut (-20mm lowered) which offers superior damping with a lowering spring over OEM shocks. Albeit without the height adjustment of a coilover.
Probably paired with an Eibach 45mm lowering spring. Or at least it probably was originally - but the dealer put on new springs supplied by Leightons.. so I have to work out whether they were also the ideally matching Eibachs or something cheaper (which might not perform as well in combination with the shock). The new shock spring is black which does at least *look* like the Eibachs. Needs to get back under to have a look to check... but that's not so easy when she is SoLow. ;-)

Anyway great advice: I know who I will be turning to if I need to buy anything...

 

[The Van Cave]

You've already spoken to someone who can definitely help, but I'm just going to pick up on a point from your original post. Your measurement of 395mm tells me that the van is about 70mm lower than standard. The shocks you have on there are not designed to work well with a van as low as that. Ideally they would be paired with a spring that would give you a maximum drop of about 50mm.

 

[AeonMach]

You've already spoken to someone who can definitely help, but I'm just going to pick up on a point from your original post. Your measurement of 395mm tells me that the van is about 70mm lower than standard. The shocks you have on there are not designed to work well with a van as low as that. Ideally they would be paired with a spring that would give you a maximum drop of about 50mm.

Ah! Yes I think that lowering sounds right…
My understanding is that the SoLow shocks are 20mm less than standard Bilsteins and then normally combined with 45mm lowering springs; does that ’normally‘ give a lowering of 65mm? Which would approx match that figure. Does it work like that??
But do you not think that it really works?
Or is all that lowering from the spring???

I’m happy to get a bit more clearance…!

 

[F2JON]

I’ve never seen silver solow shocks ? They’re normally black . I reckon they’re standard b8 shocks . They’re normally silver .

 

[AeonMach]

I’ve never seen silver solow shocks ? They’re normally black . I reckon they’re standard b8 shocks . They’re normally silver .

Well here are the SoLow Pros (which are basically modified B8s):

VW Transporter T5/T6 - SoLow Pro - Bilstein - Lowering Damper Strut Kit - T32

Our VW Transporter shock absorbers were already great, and yet we still somehow found a way to make them even better with the So Low Pro range.

transporterhq.co.uk

They‘re silver and the rear are silver and blue - exactly as mine…?

 

[F2JON]

Well here are the SoLow Pros (which are basically modified B8s):

VW Transporter T5/T6 - SoLow Pro - Bilstein - Lowering Damper Strut Kit - T32

Our VW Transporter shock absorbers were already great, and yet we still somehow found a way to make them even better with the So Low Pro range.

transporterhq.co.uk

They‘re silver and the rear are silver and blue - exactly as mine…?

Never seen those before . Consider myself educated

 

[The Van Cave]

Ah! Yes I think that lowering sounds right…
My understanding is that the SoLow shocks are 20mm less than standard Bilsteins and then normally combined with 45mm lowering springs; does that ’normally‘ give a lowering of 65mm? Which would approx match that figure. Does it work like that??
But do you not think that it really works?
Or is all that lowering from the spring???

I’m happy to get a bit more clearance…!

It doesn’t work like that. The shock is shorter to make sure that when a lowering spring is used the shock still has a good amount of travel left, so a more comfortable ride.

If you use a 45mm lowering spring with those 20mm shorter shocks, you will get 45mm (approx) of lowering.

The shorter shock doesn’t give additional lowering, it simply means that all other things being equal, you’ll get a better ride quality than with a standard length shock.

The distance between the lower mounting point of the shock and the lower spring plate will be the same as a standard shock, so the amount of lowering is all down to the spring.

 

[Gsixty]

Reading the footnote of post 1, by @AeonMach I am pretty sure the class of MOT has nothing to do with load rating of wheels. Isn'y it just what is written on the sticker inside the engine bay on the bulkhead?

 

[AeonMach]

It doesn’t work like that.

Ah ha, I’m just asking the dumb questions so i get proper answers from experts like yourself!
This is *much* appreciated Mr Van Cave!

The shock is shorter to make sure that when a lowering spring is used the shock still has a good amount of travel left, so a more comfortable ride.

I’m not sure I understand how a *shorter* shock is allowing *more* travel?

Is it perhaps that the shock body is shorter but the overall length isn’t changed (by the shorter shock body)? The shorter shock body (if that is the right term) is actually allowing more room - than a standard shock would - for the spring? Even if those springs are still shorter than standard too…

(I could really do with some diagrams that explain shock and spring interaction!)

If you use a 45mm lowering spring with those 20mm shorter shocks, you will get 45mm (approx) of lowering.

The shorter shock doesn’t give additional lowering, it simply means that all other things being equal, you’ll get a better ride quality than with a standard length shock.

The distance between the lower mounting point of the shock and the lower spring plate will be the same as a standard shock, so the amount of lowering is all down to the spring.

Moving on from my grasping at understanding suspension, does that mean that if I appear to be 65-70mm lowered (I will need to check the measurements more accurately since the van wasn’t on the flat) then ALL of that is due to shorter springs??? 65-70mm lowering springs!? Which presumably are really short springs? -> harsh ride?

Which as you said originally wouldn‘t be ideal: this SoLow Pro kit is spec’d as standard with Eibach *45mm* lowering springs I understand…

 

[AeonMach]

Reading the footnote of post 1, by @AeonMach I am pretty sure the class of MOT has nothing to do with load rating of wheels. Isn'y it just what is written on the sticker inside the engine bay on the bulkhead?

I think you’ve misunderstood my point and/or we’re talking at cross-purposes!

My understanding (mostly gained from this forum - but also reading the MoT test guidance!):

The class of MoT doesn’t *change* the load rating; it remains as recommended. As stated on the door jamb sticker - in my case the confusing dual 102/104!!
(I don’t think the engine bay sticker actually gives the load rating as such - rather it gives the max gross weight (T32/3200kg) and axle weights (1/front 1710kg, 2/rear 1720kg) from which you can work out a tyre load rating (take the larger axle weight, divide by 2 = 860kg -> 103)…)

But the class of MoT does change whether that (and speed rating) is relevant and checked in the MoT.
It’s only checked in a Class 7 MoT and not in a Class 4…
…so the class of MoT does have something “to do with load rating”!
(My vehicle is a Kombi and arguably a campervan - it‘s not your usual standard campervan but nonetheless… so should be Class 4. My local garage - where I’ve had MoTs done - said it was Class 4 without hesitation.)

However there’s a further argument that MoT isn’t the only thing which is relevant; people will mainly point out:
a/ insurance (will they require it or use it as a weasel way-out in event of a claim? Well my 102s meet the sticker since it says 102/104!)
and also
b/ the police (will they say you aren’t legal? MoT - as above - would suggest it’s fine. Also my 102/104 sticker!. But…)

So more generally I can see the argument for being cautious (even if I’m never going to carry a tonne of load!).
But why the hell does my sticker mention 102 despite that not (quite) covering 860kg and therefore 1720kg rear axle???

 

[Gsixty]

I think you’ve misunderstood my point and/or we’re talking at cross-purposes!

My understanding (mostly gained from this forum - but also reading the MoT test guidance!):

The class of MoT doesn’t *change* the load rating; it remains as recommended. As stated on the door jamb sticker - in my case the confusing dual 102/104!!
(I don’t think the engine bay sticker actually gives the load rating as such - rather it gives the max gross weight (T32/3200kg) and axle weights (1/front 1710kg, 2/rear 1720kg) from which you can work out a tyre load rating (take the larger axle weight, divide by 2 = 860kg -> 103)…)

But the class of MoT does change whether that (and speed rating) is relevant and checked in the MoT.
It’s only checked in a Class 7 MoT and not in a Class 4…
…so the class of MoT does have something “to do with load rating”!
(My vehicle is a Kombi and arguably a campervan - it‘s not your usual standard campervan but nonetheless… so should be Class 4. My local garage - where I’ve had MoTs done - said it was Class 4 without hesitation.)

However there’s a further argument that MoT isn’t the only thing which is relevant; people will mainly point out:
a/ insurance (will they require it or use it as a weasel way-out in event of a claim? Well my 102s meet the sticker since it says 102/104!)
and also
b/ the police (will they say you aren’t legal? MoT - as above - would suggest it’s fine. Also my 102/104 sticker!. But…)

So more generally I can see the argument for being cautious (even if I’m never going to carry a tonne of load!).
But why the hell does my sticker mention 102 despite that not (quite) covering 860kg and therefore 1720kg rear axle???

Yes, I understand all that, however you need to ignore the sticker that is in the door B pillar.

You need to go off the engine bay sticker, and for your van you need a 103 tyre minimum, otherwise it should be MOT fail. You can not put a tyre on with a load rating below the axle weight whether it is class 4 or 7.

So your 102 tyres are not load rated for your van.

 

[AeonMach]

The way I think about this: (@The Van Cave please correct me if I'm wrong)

Any given shock has a set travel length, i.e the length it can travel to compress and un-compress absorbing the force applied to it. If you use a standard shock and lower the van, the shock is pre-compressed by the lowering, using up some of the available travel. Its compressed because lowering the van has shortened the distance between the shock mounting points, the solid part of the shock (shock body) cant get shorter, so the shock has to compress to accommodate the shorter length. So when you drive along less of the travel distance is available in the shock to absorb the forces when driving.

Using the shorter shock means the overall length of the shock is shorter, usually just the solid bit (shock body) is shorter so its still has the same travel length as the longer shock.
and thus fits better in the shorter gap between the mounting points on the lower van. Therefore the travel section has not been pre-compressed and the whole of the travel distance is available to the shock to absorb forces when driving.

Hope that helps

Many thanks David; yes that helps and it’s what I was grasping towards (although not sure I explained it very well!).

And further in my case, although the shorter shock does allow a shorter spring while keeping better damping, it’s been overdone with an overly short lowering spring. ie trying to achieve lower than this particular SoLow system was designed for?
(And this low probably requires coilover…? At least to ride well!)

 

[AeonMach]

Yes, I understand all that, however you need to ignore the sticker that is in the door B pillar.

You need to go off the engine bay sticker, and for your van you need a 103 tyre minimum, otherwise it should be MOT fail. You can not put a tyre on with a load rating below the axle weight whether it is class 4 or 7.

So your 102 tyres are not load rated for your van.

From the gov.UK MoT manual
“Inspection processes and rules for car, private bus and light commercial vehicle (class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicle) MOT tests.”
Source:

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles

Inspection processes and rules for car, private bus and light commercial vehicle (class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicle) MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

—

Class 4

Three-wheeled vehicles more than 450kg ULW - category L5 Quadricycles - category L6 or L7 Cars and Taxis - category M1 Minibuses, motor caravans, dual purpose vehicles and ambulances up to 12 passenger seats - category M1 or M2 American pickups up to 6500kg DGW Goods vehicles not exceeding 3,000kg DGW - category N1

—

Load rating - Classes 5 and 7 only​

A tyre load rating table is in Appendix B.

Make sure the tyre load rating is suitable for the axle weight.

You can find the permitted maximum laden weight of an axle on the manufacturer’s plate.

If axle weights are not displayed on the manufacturer’s plate, you must assume that the load capacity of the tyres are suitable, unless there’s indisputable evidence to suggest otherwise.
—

Conclusion:
Class 7 should only apply to T32 panel vans.
T30 and below do not exceed 3000kg DGW.
T32 Kombis and campers will (should) count as dual purpose vehicles and motor caravans respectively.
There’s exactly the same for speed rating too.

Although you’re right that - IF YOU‘RE ASSESSED AS CLASS 7 AND IT APPLIES - then the MoT should go off the manufacturer plate on axle weight. which as you say for a T32 -> 103.

So again why doesn’t my load rating just state 103? Why does it state this 102/104 thing? (That‘s not a question I expect you to be able to answer!)

[PS I’m not advocating for ignoring load ratings btw; any future tyres I buy will be >103 and I’ve been looking extensively at wheel and tyre options that allow that! I would like to understsnd this 102 thing though…!]

 

[Gsixty]

From the gov.UK MoT manual
“Inspection processes and rules for car, private bus and light commercial vehicle (class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicle) MOT tests.”
Source:

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles

Inspection processes and rules for car, private bus and light commercial vehicle (class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicle) MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

—

Class 4

Three-wheeled vehicles more than 450kg ULW - category L5 Quadricycles - category L6 or L7 Cars and Taxis - category M1 Minibuses, motor caravans, dual purpose vehicles and ambulances up to 12 passenger seats - category M1 or M2 American pickups up to 6500kg DGW Goods vehicles not exceeding 3,000kg DGW - category N1

—

Load rating - Classes 5 and 7 only​

A tyre load rating table is in Appendix B.

Make sure the tyre load rating is suitable for the axle weight.

You can find the permitted maximum laden weight of an axle on the manufacturer’s plate.

If axle weights are not displayed on the manufacturer’s plate, you must assume that the load capacity of the tyres are suitable, unless there’s indisputable evidence to suggest otherwise.
—

Conclusion:
Class 7 should only apply to T32 panel vans.
T30 and below do not exceed 3000kg DGW.
T32 Kombis and campers will (should) count as dual purpose vehicles and motor caravans respectively.
There’s exactly the same for speed rating too.

Although you’re right that - IF YOU‘RE ASSESSED AS CLASS 7 AND IT APPLIES - then the MoT should go off the manufacturer plate on axle weight. which as you say for a T32 -> 103.

So again why doesn’t my load rating just state 103? Why does it state this 102/104 thing? (That‘s not a question I expect you to be able to answer!)

[PS I’m not advocating for ignoring load ratings btw; any future tyres I buy will be >103 and I’ve been looking extensively at wheel and tyre options that allow that! I would like to understsnd this 102 thing though…!]

I am not questioning whether your van should be class 4 or class 7.

The point is for a T32 Transporter it should have 103 minimum tyres.

Just for reference, I believe the numbers on the door are to do with the tyres that VW supply new on the van and the correct pressures for those tyres.

I just looked at the sticker on my van and there are pressures quoted for tyres of various sizes and weight ratings from 102 to 109. My van is a T30 and working from the axle weight need 101 rated tyres.

 

[CRS Performance]

Bump!

I think after some further reading that I’m on something like Bilstein B6 or B8s - ie ‘standard’ shocks rather than coilovers - combined with lowering springs…?
But I was hoping that one of the forum’s resident pro gurus could easily ID them…!
@BognorMotors @CRS Performance

Ill pop my 10 pennies worth in here .

Those Bilstein dampers on your van could be a private label as Bilstein B6 and B8 are usually yellow in colour . If your van is approx 70 mm down then the spring kit you have fitted isnt coping with the weight of your van at all well !!
A T32 isnt heavier than any other van except for a few kilos of bigger brakes and roll bars , ( its the load carrying capacity that is bigger ) However a 4 motion is much heavier and this is probably what is causing the springs to go lower than they are designed . Be cautious changing to something else because you may end up with the same problem . Most kits are designed for empty vans and when fitted to heavier models the results are suboptimal and springs over stress and break ( there is plenty of info on this problem on the forum )

We have developed all of our kits to suit camper / heavier vans specifically, whether its Our Evo Technik Definition or Ultimate kit these are available with different springs to cope well with any weigh ( we have 14 different spring combinations specifically to cater for all types of van including a 4 motion California which is the heaviest transporter !

Using a Ride height adjustable spring platform kit to compensate for additional weight is wrong and a mistake made by most fitment centres in the Transporter world .

If you try to lift a van that has had 400 kilos of camper equipment fitted using a coil over kit , 99 % of the time the springs are permanently stressed and eventually break .

We do have a spring kit that you can use with the Bilstein shocks you have , it will bring the van up to a sensible ride height . If you like the very low look we have a suitable height adjustable kit for that as well.

Hope this helps

 

[CRS Performance]

I’ve never seen silver solow shocks ? They’re normally black . I reckon they’re standard b8 shocks . They’re normally silver .

The bulk of Bilstein performance dampers are Yellow . they introduced the B4 cheap replacement dampers a long time ago they are all Black ( these weren't designed as performance parts at all )

Many of the Bilstein shocks nowadays are in private label kits and painted all colours .