V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

[St4n99]

Lots more info here, not setting myself up as a lawyer but my understanding is that it does depend on your V5 class and unladen weight and as such is a problem for T32 LWB and definitely if you are also 4Motion.

Forum search for Speed limit

It's my understanding that if your v5 is classed as n1 then your restricted but if you have M1 or campervan then you are not ,so if your camper started life as a shuttle or caravel then it shouldn't affect you on speed limits even if it's a t32 , not sure if shuttle and caravel came in 4motion if am honest so mibi some one could clear that up

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

From my reading and IMHO
It’s not your vehicle class although that is important. It is if you qualify as a Dual Purpose Vehicle.
If it’s a Dual Purpose Vehicle and weighs no more than 2,040kg when unladen you can do the higher speed.
Just for info my LWB 4Motion Highline 180 is 2290kg unladen on the V5

Car-derived vans and dual purpose vehicles

Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:

• constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to b,e, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle

Or

• permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas

 

[CJ_T6-red]

Phew.
Thank gawd my camper is a wheel barrow during the day, and at night it’s the space shuttle.


I know on other posts peeps were getting stopped when classified as a van, when classified as a motor caravan, the higher speeds applied.
So it was v important then to get it changed on the V5.

And an aside .... daft rules, in the summer months no campers are allowed to park on the sea front at swanage. If caught then a fix penalty / fine is issued.
Madness.

 

[Stay Frosty]

The Swanage problem is easily solved though by turning left just before Corfe Castle and spending the day on Studland Beach instead, love that part of Dorset but Swanage is a dump, nearest I get normally is on the coastal path above after walking past Old Harry.

 

[Eli]

Are speed limiters the best way to reduce road deaths?

 

[Salty Spuds]

From my reading and IMHO
It’s not your vehicle class although that is important. It is if you qualify as a Dual Purpose Vehicle.
If it’s a Dual Purpose Vehicle and weighs no more than 2,040kg when unladen you can do the higher speed.
Just for info my LWB 4Motion Highline 180 is 2290kg unladen on the V5

Car-derived vans and dual purpose vehicles

Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:

• constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to b,e, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle

Or

• permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas

This old chestnut keeps rearing its head, so for clarity:-

IF your body type is listed as "motor caravan" on the V5 AND your unladen weight is below 3050KG (which all our vans are) THEN you are subject to passenger car speed limits. I.E. 70mph on motorways & dual carriage ways, 60mph on national speed limit roads etc. The taxation class is irrelevant, its the body type & unladen weight that matter. The beauty is, the road tax stays the same, but the speed limits change when you re-register as a motor caravan, which is probably why the DVLA are playing awkward.

Further reading Motorhome Speed Limits

 

[Stu/Lucy]

I have noticed that the majority of people on this forum have pop tops which don't change the outward appearance quite so noticeably as my high top with roof-light and bathroom extractor - this must put the dvla against the majority to begin with. Once they say no they then dig their heels in and Mr Jobsworth comes out to play! The days of having a stealth camper may well be over.

We have the same problem - concerned how this affects insurance!!

 

[Stu/Lucy]

We have the same problem- concerned hiw thus affects insurance ... loohs like there are a lot of us in the same boat !!!

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I can't see that it will affect your insurance if the insurance company agrees to insure the vehicle kitted out as a campervan to its full value and all modifications declared. My T3 was still as a minibus on the V5 but they insured it as a campervan with bed, fridge, cooker, high top etc. My Mercedes 508D was also still a 19 seater minibus on the V5 but was declared to the insurer as a campervan and accepted as such. The main concern, I should have thought, is that a lot of people are aiming to get the higher speed limit that goes with campervan on the V5.
You may have to search around for the insurer that will do this.

 

[Salty Spuds]

This would appear to contradict itself & is open to interpretation.

Converting a vehicle into a motorhome

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I can't see any contradiction there - the body type will not be changed if it does not look like a motor home - second paragraph. Then it goes on to define the interior items that must be present once that requirement has been met. This guidance does not appear to have been changed for donkey's years. People are falling foul of the stricter enforcement of the preamble "The body type information held on the vehicle record must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. This description, in addition to other distinguishing features, enables the police and other enforcement agencies to identify a particular vehicle. Therefore, the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home."

None of which will prevent an insurance company from issuing a policy according to what the van consists of rather than a body type in a box on the V5. OK it may take one of the companies that tend to specialize in self-build campervans/ motor caravans/ what they want them to be called which is already the case for self-builds.

( I used to have to wade through Civil Service " books of instruction" which stated how the law was to be applied - in a previous life. You cannot pick and choose which piece applies to you, the whole meaning/interpretation of the law must be applied. Here the first step is defined in the preamble.)

 

[Salty Spuds]

I can't see any contradiction there - the body type will not be changed if it does not look like a motor home - second paragraph. Then it goes on to define the interior items that must be present once that requirement has been met. This guidance does not appear to have been changed for donkey's years. People are falling foul of the stricter enforcement of the preamble "The body type information held on the vehicle record must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. This description, in addition to other distinguishing features, enables the police and other enforcement agencies to identify a particular vehicle. Therefore, the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home."

None of which will prevent an insurance company from issuing a policy according to what the van consists of rather than a body type in a box on the V5. OK it may take one of the companies that tend to specialize in self-build campervans/ motor caravans/ what they want them to be called which is already the case for self-builds.

( I used to have to wade through Civil Service " books of instruction" which stated how the law was to be applied - in a previous life. You cannot pick and choose which piece applies to you, the whole meaning/interpretation of the law must be applied. Here the first step is defined in the preamble.)

I’d say this is pretty contradictory:-

“Therefore, the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home“

“If the vehicle has all of these features present, permanently fixed and installed properly, then it is a legal requirement to have it reclassified as a motor caravan on the V5C.”

 

[Loz]

I assume therefore that the dvla also define what a Motorhome looks like from the outside?

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Not in the slightest contradictory, you are reading it how you want it to read, not as it is set out.
Once you have satisfied the body type criteria you then move on to the interior. You cannot just select the later criteria on their own, they are to be satisfied next. You cannot say that you have changed the appearance of the body of your vehicle by adding a sink etc. therefore no change to body type can be made.

This has been a bugbear for years that people want motor home on the V5 for various reasons and depending upon the clerk handling it differing views have been taken as to the DVLAs handling of the request. Obviously someone higher up the food chain has analyzed the growing volume of change of body type change requests and instructed the staff to adhere to the rules correctly. I should think that emergency services have had some input also, I was told by a fireman years ago that if a van looks like a campervan etc. they automatically assume that there will certainly be gas on board whereas with a plain van would not be certain, just possible. Part of their risk assessment when they first arrive on the scene of a fire/crash.

Surely you can see the reasoning for the strict enforcement?

Maybe there should be a separate box on the V5 for campervan/ motor caravan interior rather than being solely based on body type? ( This will not satisfy people that want the higher speed limits though)

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

Surely you can see the reasoning for the strict enforcement?

Yes , seems pretty clear to me. Follow the money, speeding fines and congestion charge are both reduced income for the government if more people have motorcaravans rather than vans with windows.
Therefore make up the rules as we go along to suit.
If you would be kind enough to point me in the direction of the written acceptable means of compliance for making my van look like a motorcaravan. If you think I should just get over legally having to drive about at 50mph in a 180bhp 4 wheel drive with better handling, stopping and steering than many cars I hope you are stuck behind me on the A9 for hours.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I assume therefore that the dvla also define what a Motorhome looks like from the outside?

Years ago there used to be a pdf available that defined motor caravan for type approval and registration but I cannot remember what was in it or whether it defined the external appearance.
As a van with windows and no visible external changes to the body drives past you I doubt that you would describe it as a motor caravan but put a high top on a van with windows it will look more like a motor caravan. ( not necessarily so though as we all know)

It is a mess and needs sorting and will take a concerted effort on the part of the trade involved in conversions along with self builders.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Yes , seems pretty clear to me. Follow the money, speeding fines and congestion charge are both reduced income for the government if more people have motorcaravans rather than vans with windows.
Therefore make up the rules as we go along to suit.
If you would be kind enough to point me in the direction of the written acceptable means of compliance for making my van look like a motorcaravan. If you think I should just get over legally having to drive about at 50mph in a 180bhp 4 wheel drive with better handling, stopping and steering than many cars I hope you are stuck behind me on the A9 for hours.

Why are you blaming me?
I haven't imposed anything. Just pointing out how the requirements are set out.
Apology accepted in advance of you making it.

 

[LastBoyScout]

Not in the slightest contradictory, you are reading it how you want it to read, not as it is set out.
Once you have satisfied the body type criteria you then move on to the interior. You cannot just select the later criteria on their own, they are to be satisfied next. You cannot say that you have changed the appearance of the body of your vehicle by adding a sink etc. therefore no change to body type can be made.

This has been a bugbear for years that people want motor home on the V5 for various reasons and depending upon the clerk handling it differing views have been taken as to the DVLAs handling of the request. Obviously someone higher up the food chain has analyzed the growing volume of change of body type change requests and instructed the staff to adhere to the rules correctly. I should think that emergency services have had some input also, I was told by a fireman years ago that if a van looks like a campervan etc. they automatically assume that there will certainly be gas on board whereas with a plain van would not be certain, just possible. Part of their risk assessment when they first arrive on the scene of a fire/crash.

Surely you can see the reasoning for the strict enforcement?

I accept the preamble but in the future will all window vans have to be treated as carrying gas or other hazard by the fire service? Surely a permanently attached awning indicated exterior change to camper?

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

Not blaming you for anything at all @oldiebut goodie, unless you work for the DVLA?
Really don’t want anyone stuck behind me on the A9, that includes you.

Should you find a definition of what a motorcaravan looks like do please forward it.

Surely if the emergency services were that concerned about vehicles carrying gas they would legislate mandatory placards externally. They don’t, therefore they don’t care that much?

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I really cannot be bothered to - I have a motor caravan, detailed as such on the V5. Note the body type has been changed from a van without windows.
I have just been pointing out how the requirements are being miss-read by a lot of people, the requirements have not changed just the enforcement. Back in the early days before this internet thing arrived we just drove to the local office and they either looked out of the window or walked down to the car park to see if it looked like a motor caravan and told you what was wrong - magazines had the list of requirements that we used, I presume that there is a hard copy at the DVLA somewhere that has never been published verbatim.