Court case for (not?) speeding in converted camper SCOTLAND

[GRAMC]

Hello,

I know this has been done to death but I have yet to find any information on cases in Scotland.

I got caught going 62mph on a single carriage way in my converted van (less than the approx 3t unladen weigh limit). I meet the internal DVLA requirements to be a camper but NOT the external requirements. The VC5 says panel Van. It seems according to the legislation I am a camper and can go 60mph on a single carriageway. But police scotland are telling me I also meet the external DVLA requirements (im missing an awning and graphics) to get the 60mph limit. I want to contest this and have seen lots of evidence of people succesfully doing so in England, but would it be a different story in Scotland? is it worth paying £600 for solicitor? (they can speak to the Procurator Fiscal prior to it going to court and getting it potentially binned but it may also go to court.

any thoughts or experience in Scotland welcome

 

[Pauly]

You were speeding, even if you can prove you were only 2 mph over you were still speeding and chances are they will still come after you for it

In my experience once they start the process they wont stop it even for only being 2 over, had the same myself but got away with a speed awareness course

 

[GRAMC]

actually just looked again and it was 61mph! surely you get 1mph grace? (assuming the rest of the argument is sound). they dont offer speed awareness courses in scotland unfortunately

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't think it's the 1 or 2 MPH at play here, but rather the single carriageway 50MPH for vans thing rearing it's head again.

Sadly I've no experience of Scottish law and procedure - similar in most regards, but often painfully different just when you don't want/expect it to be.

 

[Ali-G]

I think you'll find that you don't need an awning or graphics to be classed as a dual purpose vehicle.

 

[Bargy62]

I tried going to court years ago to get a speeding fine dealt with as I was due a ban if it went against me and the first question the magistrate asked was were you exceeding the speed limit for that road of course the answer was yes.
But unbeknown to me and the duty solicitor at the time you could only be fined for speeding in a temporary speed zone contra flow on motorway not get points the police officers were advised next time go for dangerous driving not speeding.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Hello,

I know this has been done to death but I have yet to find any information on cases in Scotland.

I got caught going 62mph on a single carriage way in my converted van (less than the approx 3t unladen weigh limit). I meet the internal DVLA requirements to be a camper but NOT the external requirements. The VC5 says panel Van. It seems according to the legislation I am a camper and can go 60mph on a single carriageway. But police scotland are telling me I also meet the external DVLA requirements (im missing an awning and graphics) to get the 60mph limit. I want to contest this and have seen lots of evidence of people succesfully doing so in England, but would it be a different story in Scotland? is it worth paying £600 for solicitor? (they can speak to the Procurator Fiscal prior to it going to court and getting it potentially binned but it may also go to court.

any thoughts or experience in Scotland welcome

My pal just had same problem with his T5.1 camper. He wrote to them and asked why as his van had been re registered as a camper and is insured as one.
They apologised and that was the end of.
This was on the A9 in Scotland

 

[Bav]

It's not DVLA definitions that are relevant here, it's Construction & Use Regs 1986 that define the criteria for being classed as a Motor Caravan (the official term for a camper) and, hence, applicable speed limits.

C&U Regs are applicable across the whole of the UK.

 

[GRAMC]

My pal just had same problem with his T5.1 camper. He wrote to them and asked why as his van had been re registered as a camper and is insured as one.
They apologised and that was the end of.
This was on the A9 in Scotland

i tried the insurance argument. But sounds like his VC5 had been changed to camper? mine hasnt...

 

[CAB]

i tried the insurance argument. But sounds like his VC5 had been changed to camper? mine hasnt...

Doesn't matter. Police Scotland are wrong. You have a motor caravan.

 

[GRAMC]

I think you'll find that you don't need an awning or graphics to be classed as a dual purpose vehicle.

DPV needs to be less 2.04t mine weights 2.7t unfortunately

 

[Bav]

DPV needs to be less 2.04t mine weights 2.7t unfortunately

Not true

EDIT: Apologies, that's not true for a camper - may well be true if you try to go down the dual propose route.

 

[GRAMC]

Not true

EDIT: Apologies, that's not true for a camper - may well be true if you try to go down the dual propose route.

yes correct for camper the upper limit for a 60mph speed limit on single carriageway is 3.05t so i would need to stick with the camper argument.


ANYONE OUT THERE HAD DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF CHALLENGING THIS IN SCOTLAND PRE COURT WITH THE PROCURATOR FISCAL OR IN COURT ?

 

[EAN]

Campervan, Van With Windows & Motorcaravan Speed Limits (2020/2021 Update) | Jerba Campervans

In February 2020 we wrote a blog about campervan and van with windows speed limits, which sought to unravel the mysteries of what dictates how fast you

www.jerbacampervans.co.uk

 

[GRAMC]

Campervan, Van With Windows & Motorcaravan Speed Limits (2020/2021 Update) | Jerba Campervans

In February 2020 we wrote a blog about campervan and van with windows speed limits, which sought to unravel the mysteries of what dictates how fast you

www.jerbacampervans.co.uk

Thanks for sharing seen lots of cases like this. My problem is police Scotland are not backing down so it's going to the legal system and I don't know if this argument has actually been tested in court or whether other forces have all backed down before that point.

 

[Sasquatch]

It has been tested in court and some English forces have backed down before court, most recently - to my knowledge - Avon and Somerset. In some cases the prosecutor has rolled their eyes when they've seen the case file and either withdrawn the case or offered no evidence.

It's it not the  class of vehicle the dictates the applicable speed limit, and that is the mistake the untrained civilians that staff the prosecutions units usually make.

It is the type of vehicle that dictates the speed limit, the Road Traffic Act states this in black and white. Con and Use regs define the  type, and not the DVLA who decide the taxation class. Members of this very site have enquired with the DVLA and had this confirmed to them in writing via email.

Furthermore, thr NPCC have clarified that the DVLA class is not the factor which determines the speed limits for a particular vehicle, and confirm that the decisive factor is the vehicle type under Type Approval Regulations 1979.

Here in England I'd not hesitate to point all this out to the farce concerned and then let it run to Court. Scotland is likely very similar or even the same in all regards, but I can't take that for granted.

 

[EAN]

Thanks for sharing seen lots of cases like this. My problem is police Scotland are not backing down so it's going to the legal system and I don't know if this argument has actually been tested in court or whether other forces have all backed down before that point.

There's a link within the post to an update where it was tested in court.

 

[GRAMC]

There's a link within the post to an update where it was tested in court.

Sorry I can only see where it says they appealed with the police directly before it had actually gone to court?

 

[Sackmycook]

It has been tested in court and some English forces have backed down before court, most recently - to my knowledge - Avon and Somerset. In some cases the prosecutor has rolled their eyes when they've seen the case file and either withdrawn the case or offered no evidence.

It's it not the  class of vehicle the dictates the applicable speed limit, and that is the mistake the untrained civilians that staff the prosecutions units usually make.

It is the type of vehicle that dictates the speed limit, the Road Traffic Act states this in black and white. Con and Use regs define the  type, and not the DVLA who decide the taxation class. Members of this very site have enquired with the DVLA and had this confirmed to them in writing via email.

Furthermore, thr NPCC have clarified that the DVLA class is not the factor which determines the speed limits for a particular vehicle, and confirm that the decisive factor is the vehicle type under Type Approval Regulations 1979.

Here in England I'd not hesitate to point all this out to the farce concerned and then let it run to Court. Scotland is likely very similar or even the same in all regards, but I can't take that for granted.

Very succinctly put. This should be pinned somewhere on the master topic

 

[GRAMC]

Another issue that has been pointed out is that even if the rest of my case stands up I could still technically be prosecuted for going 61 in a 60mph.

Anyone know what the deal is here seems unreasonable