Newbie - Leisure Battery Set Up

[Clubhouse]

Hi all, newbie alert so please go easy on me! I'm just in the late stages of buying a custom build 2/3 year old T6 Highline T30 SWB 150 DSG with Sportline body kit etc from Woodstock Campers. I'm considering using it off grid occasionally but it only has one leisure battery. Before I go back to Woodstock and make some (potentially) ridiculous upgrade request I'd be grateful for some advice here.

The build will include a solar panel too but I was wondering whether it would be possible to ask for the following and, more importantly, whether anything else would be required:

1. 2 x 110ah Leisure batteries
2. 2000w pure sine inverter (it has an 800w microwave)
3. Victron BMV 712

I've seen that New Wave Conversions sell an under body mount for twin batteries so this might be an option but it's £150 so I'd rather keep it as a reserve option if the extra battery can be squeezed in somewhere.

Woodstock have already said they'll be happy to wire in the inverter but the additional cost of adding the battery and a different monitor is already going to hurt the wallet and I'd like to know if I need to factor in more ££££'s or give up on the idea altogether.

Thanks in advance for your advice and suggestions.

(BTW, I won't be using the microwave off grid, that'll be restricted to EHU and the occasional morning stop for a 10 minute burst)

 

[t0mb0]

It really depends on what you want to run off-grid, if you want to run a load of power hungry domestic kitchen style appliances through the invertor, you’ll need a lot of power. If not though, and you’re running standard 12v lights, compressor fridge and the usual phone/tablet charging then one 110ah is likely fine. In the end, batteries only effectively store, i.e. time shift, energy so your ability to stay off grid for longer than a weekend is more about your energy input (solar, DC-DC) vs energy usage than the size of the battery.

What’s your invertor actually for though if you’re only planning on running the microwave on EHU?

 

[Qnapper]

Hi all, newbie alert so please go easy on me! I'm just in the late stages of buying a custom build 2/3 year old T6 Highline T30 SWB 150 DSG with Sportline body kit etc from Woodstock Campers. I'm considering using it off grid occasionally but it only has one leisure battery. Before I go back to Woodstock and make some (potentially) ridiculous upgrade request I'd be grateful for some advice here.

The build will include a solar panel too but I was wondering whether it would be possible to ask for the following and, more importantly, whether anything else would be required:

1. 2 x 110ah Leisure batteries
2. 2000w pure sine inverter (it has an 800w microwave)
3. Victron BMV 712

I've seen that New Wave Conversions sell an under body mount for twin batteries so this might be an option but it's £150 so I'd rather keep it as a reserve option if the extra battery can be squeezed in somewhere.

Woodstock have already said they'll be happy to wire in the inverter but the additional cost of adding the battery and a different monitor is already going to hurt the wallet and I'd like to know if I need to factor in more ££££'s or give up on the idea altogether.

Thanks in advance for your advice and suggestions.

(BTW, I won't be using the microwave off grid, that'll be restricted to EHU and the occasional morning stop for a 10 minute burst)

Firstly welcome,

A 800w microwave will draw 66amps from your batteries - so 2 x 110 batteries will give you 110 usable amps before you start killing them (AGM I hope fitted)

A 2000w pure sine inverter will draw 166 amps with is silly for a 800-watt microwave.

You say a solar panel is going to be fitted? If so you will need at least a 250watts panel to replace the power being sucked out from the inverter.

Unless you really need that microwave I would bin it and spend my money on more battery power and solar.

 

[Qnapper]

It really depends on what you want to run off-grid, if you want to run a load of power hungry domestic kitchen style appliances through the invertor, you’ll need a lot of power. If not though, and you’re running standard 12v lights, compressor fridge and the usual phone/tablet charging then one 110ah is likely fine. In the end, batteries only effectively store, i.e. time shift, energy so your ability to stay off grid for longer than a weekend is more about your energy input (solar, DC-DC) vs energy usage than the size of the battery.

What’s your invertor actually for though if you’re only planning on running the microwave on EHU?

bottom of his post:
(BTW, I won't be using the microwave off grid, that'll be restricted to EHU and the occasional morning stop for a 10 minute burst)

 

[Clubhouse]

Thanks for your reply. We won't always be using the microwave on an EHU but equally we're not planning on using it for long periods of time either. It's more for the convenience factor. If we're travelling long distances and we stop off for a couple of hours en-route it's likely to be used then for heating snacks/ready meals etc. We're basically trying our best to be prepared for all eventualities.

 

[Qnapper]

Thanks for your reply. We won't always be using the microwave on an EHU but equally we're not planning on using it for long periods of time either. It's more for the convenience factor. If we're travelling long distances and we stop off for a couple of hours en-route it's likely to be used then for heating snacks/ready meals etc. We're basically trying our best to be prepared for all eventualities.

Heating things up is easy using the gas cooker. Then there is the thing about being overweight. Find out what you can load after van converted and you might be shocked. 20kg microwave is a big saving.

I have been motorhomeing for 11 years now (just change to campervan) and never needed a microwave

At the end of the day it is your pride and joy and how you fit it out is up to you.

Enjoy it.

 

[t0mb0]

Thanks for your reply. We won't always be using the microwave on an EHU but equally we're not planning on using it for long periods of time either. It's more for the convenience factor. If we're travelling long distances and we stop off for a couple of hours en-route it's likely to be used then for heating snacks/ready meals etc. We're basically trying our best to be prepared for all eventualities.

If a microwave is the only thing you need the invertor for, then I’d consider dropping both the microwave and the invertor, or at least give up on using it off-EHU and drop the invertor. An 800w microwave is a pretty hideous load for an AGM battery, I would say even 10mins is a bad idea.

 

[Clubhouse]

Firstly welcome,

A 800w microwave will draw 66amps from your batteries - so 2 x 110 batteries will give you 110 usable amps before you start killing them (AGM I hope fitted)

A 2000w pure sine inverter will draw 166 amps with is silly for a 800-watt microwave.

You say a solar panel is going to be fitted? If so you will need at least a 250watts panel to replace the power being sucked out from the inverter.

Unless you really need that microwave I would bin it and spend my money on more battery power and solar.

Thank you for your welcome and reply.

If it wasn't already obvious I've reached the extent of my knowledge of what options are available to me and what will/won't work!

The standard build includes a 120w solar panel, a 110ah battery and either a mini grill or the microwave. There's also the standard two burner hob. The microwave option adds some practicality for feeding a young child (without it taking ages) and, at the risk of sounding odd, cooking the dog his scrambled egg he likes in the morning.

Where you've lost me a bit is the amps you say the inverter will draw and how it "is silly for an 800w microwave". Can you expand on this please?

Assuming the microwave gets used mid trip or in short bursts during the day wouldn't the solar panel and engine running be enough to recharge the battery/batteries?

Btw, the microwave is an unintentional red herring as my intention was to use that as a high power draw example for why I'd like an extra battery and what parts would be required.

 

[t0mb0]

If a microwave is the only thing you need the invertor for, then I’d consider dropping both the microwave and the invertor, or at least give up on using it off-EHU and drop the invertor. An 800w microwave is a pretty hideous load for an AGM battery, I would say even 10mins is a bad idea.

The good news is though, if you forget about the microwave, your 110ah battery should be fine off grid as long as you have decent solar and DC-DC charging from the alternator.

 

[Clubhouse]

I'm getting the feeling a microwave is a bad idea or at the very least not recommended ...

 

[t0mb0]

I'm getting the feeling a microwave is a bad idea or at the very least not recommended ...

If you’d find it useful whilst on EHU, go for it. It’s just it’s such a high power device that it’s problematic off-EHU without a really chunky (i.e. expensive!) battery setup, probably lithium based.

 

[Qnapper]

Thank you for your welcome and reply.

If it wasn't already obvious I've reached the extent of my knowledge of what options are available to me and what will/won't work!

The standard build includes a 120w solar panel, a 110ah battery and either a mini grill or the microwave. There's also the standard two burner hob. The microwave option adds some practicality for feeding a young child (without it taking ages) and, at the risk of sounding odd, cooking the dog his scrambled egg he likes in the morning.

Where you've lost me a bit is the amps you say the inverter will draw and how it "is silly for an 800w microwave". Can you expand on this please?

Assuming the microwave gets used mid trip or in short bursts during the day wouldn't the solar panel and engine running be enough to recharge the battery/batteries?

Btw, the microwave is an unintentional red herring as my intention was to use that as a high power draw example for why I'd like an extra battery and what parts would be required.

The standard build includes a 120w solar panel - Get them to fit a 250watt panel and good MPPT controller model. 250 watts will return 8/9 amps per hour... in UK thats about 5/6 hours of NO cloud cover back into batteries.

110ah battery is fine for a day or so but UK sun will not charge it back up in 1/2 days (the 250watt panel will help lots) Fitt 2 x 110 batteries should leave you loads of power for a few days.

An AGM battery states 110 amps, but in truth you can really on draw 55amps from it before it starts to die. So.... you have 2 moble phones (2amps) 2 x tablets (2/3amps) computer (3/4 amps) TV (2/3amps) Water pump (3amps whilst running) LED lights (2/3amps) etc etc etc now add them up say.... 20 amps a day out of battery that has 55amps to use and you can see by end of day two battery is low. Add night time heater that draws up to 10 amps whilst starting up/closing down and drawning 1/2 amps every hour and you may not get to day 3......... Best searching about amps and batteries.

Have the mini grill fitted.

 

[t0mb0]

It’s very difficult to estimate these kinds of things without detailed usage patterns, but to add a real-world data point which might help set expectations, we have a 250w solar panel, a decent DC-DC charger with the factory fit 75ah leisure battery and the usual fridge/lights/phones/water-pump loads and we happily do 3-5 week summer trips without even packing an EHU lead.

 

[Clubhouse]

Thanks for all the help guys. Much appreciated. A lot of food for thought. Might need to have a word about the solar panel! Going back to the beginning it appears that the original plan is a bit of a non starter, which is a shame. My other half has a 'phobia' of grills following an accident many years ago and she was happy with the microwave idea.

 

[t0mb0]

Thanks for all the help guys. Much appreciated. A lot of food for thought. Might need to have a word about the solar panel! Going back to the beginning it appears that the original plan is a bit of a non starter, which is a shame. My other half has a 'phobia' of grills following an accident many years ago and she was happy with the microwave idea.

Is the grill electric or gas though? If electric, what wattage is it?

Microwave’s are rather unusual in camper vans but if you want one to use on EHU, it’s fine, it’s only off-EHU that it’s rather demanding on the battery/invertor so needs a very high power setup.

 

[Clubhouse]

Is the grill electric or gas though? If electric, what wattage is it?

Microwave’s are rather unusual in camper vans but if you want one to use on EHU, it’s fine, it’s only off-EHU that it’s rather demanding on the battery/invertor so needs a very high power setup.

It's a fairly simple SMEV mini grill, which is gas powered. I'm personally moving away from the microwave idea but 'the boss' has got other ideas and is now even more firmly anti-grill due to the aforementioned incident. I'm bowing to your superior knowledge and experience so I've got some thinking to do! Just whilst I'm here; thoughts on pure lead carbon batteries? I could always get a 300ah LiFePO4 battery ... yeah right . That's not happening!

 

[ThreeBridgeT6]

I wouldn't rule out the microwave as an option. I have an oven/grill/microwave (800W) and a two ring induction hob in mine, together with a 3kW inverter. However, I have twin 100Ah lithium batteries and a large solar panel on the roof. If you're considering using any power hungry kit I think you have to go down the lithium route as you'll kill AGM batteries very quickly. I can do a full breakfast for four (and I mean FULL!) off my batteries so running a microwave for a few minutes at a time would be ok.

 

[Dellmassive]

some info here for you . .

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It -- Part #1 Battery monitoring is a very important part of your 12v system . . . . whether its just the vans starter battery or your leisure setup keeping an eye on the power in your battery bank will keep you from breaking down and make sure your weekends...

www.t6forum.com

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Lithium Batteries are the future, (keep checking back for the latest news/edits) ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

DC-DC Charger (for Leisure battery) -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

Battery Chargers - How I Did It -

Battery Chargers - How I Did It - So its that time of year again, cold, rainy. . . . . . . flat battery =[ This time we look at Battery Chargers. Our vans will most likely come with a AGM style starter battery, for this type of battery we need a "Smart Charger" . . . . but what does this...

www.t6forum.com

[Guide] Mobile Solar Panels ? . . . - How I Did It -

Mobile Solar Panels ? . . . - How I Did It - There is loads of background to this . . . . . but for now here is a vid for you all. =] Just remember W = V*A and as a general rule a good 100W panel will give you up to 6A charge with good sun. 25w = 1.5A 50W = 3A 100w = 6A 200w = 12A 300w = 18A...

www.t6forum.com

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it --

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it -- id like to build a thread showing what's possible as regards to seat base builds. lets post a collection of our electrical installs, be it in the seat base or rear conversion. just EHU or SCR/VSR, charger, DC-DC...

www.t6forum.com

.

**************************************************
Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread
**************************************************
Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --
**************************************************
VIP Membership | VW T6 Forum - The Dedicated VW Transporter T6 Forum
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For Sale - Summer-weekend-t6f Limited Edition External Stickers
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[Clubhouse]

I wouldn't rule out the microwave as an option. I have an oven/grill/microwave (800W) and a two ring induction hob in mine, together with a 3kW inverter. However, I have twin 100Ah lithium batteries and a large solar panel on the roof. If you're considering using any power hungry kit I think you have to go down the lithium route as you'll kill AGM batteries very quickly. I can do a full breakfast for four (and I mean FULL!) off my batteries so running a microwave for a few minutes at a time would be ok.

That is a serious amount of power ... but it may be a bit too much for my already stretched budget! I think Xmas and birthday lists are going to look a bit different in the future

 

[Clubhouse]

some info here for you . .

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It -- Part #1 Battery monitoring is a very important part of your 12v system . . . . whether its just the vans starter battery or your leisure setup keeping an eye on the power in your battery bank will keep you from breaking down and make sure your weekends...

www.t6forum.com

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Lithium Batteries are the future, (keep checking back for the latest news/edits) ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

DC-DC Charger (for Leisure battery) -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

Battery Chargers - How I Did It -

Battery Chargers - How I Did It - So its that time of year again, cold, rainy. . . . . . . flat battery =[ This time we look at Battery Chargers. Our vans will most likely come with a AGM style starter battery, for this type of battery we need a "Smart Charger" . . . . but what does this...

www.t6forum.com

[Guide] Mobile Solar Panels ? . . . - How I Did It -

Mobile Solar Panels ? . . . - How I Did It - There is loads of background to this . . . . . but for now here is a vid for you all. =] Just remember W = V*A and as a general rule a good 100W panel will give you up to 6A charge with good sun. 25w = 1.5A 50W = 3A 100w = 6A 200w = 12A 300w = 18A...

www.t6forum.com

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it --

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it -- id like to build a thread showing what's possible as regards to seat base builds. lets post a collection of our electrical installs, be it in the seat base or rear conversion. just EHU or SCR/VSR, charger, DC-DC...

www.t6forum.com

.

**************************************************
Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread
**************************************************
Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --
**************************************************
VIP Membership | VW T6 Forum - The Dedicated VW Transporter T6 Forum
************************************************
For Sale - Summer-weekend-t6f Limited Edition External Stickers
For Sale - T6F Flags
**************************************************

Thank you. That's very helpful. Who'd have thought batteries could produce such a myriad of different options? I guess many people on this forum have already 'been there and done that' so it's certainly been useful to get guidance from such a wealth of experience.