Lithium Lifepo4 12v Batteries - - - Time For An Upgrade ? - - -

Discussion in 'Electrics, Lighting, ICE, Security' started by Dellmassive, 26 Feb 2019.

  1. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    Lithium Batteries are the future,

    (keep checking back for the latest news/edits)


    we already have them in phones, tablets, laptops, vape sticks, Tesla cars . . . . and now cars & Vans.


    There have been a couple of versions of Lithium batteries . . . . and some scare stories associated with them.

    wiki - Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia

    in a nutshell the previous types had some issues:
    liPo (main use in RC) cells needed a fire proof back when charging. (i had one go up in flames after crashing the RC car and the cell went flying through the air and smashed on the conreat, started gassing off then flames . . . . not good!


    The new kid on the block is LiFePO4

    (Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia)

    its chemistry is safe to use and is looking like a great replacement for your SLA/EFB+/AGM leisure battery setup.

    Why Lithium? . . . . well a normal lead acid battery only has 50% usable capacity, that means you can only use 55ah out of a 110ah battery.

    so you would need 2x110ah Lead acid batteries to be comparable to 1x 110ah lithium.

    extreamly high charge/discahrge rates . . . so you can charge them fast and draw large loads from them without the Voltage sag associated with normal battery. (ie large inverters, pumps, winches, coffee machines etc)

    4000 - 10000 charge/discharge cycles - so effectively they could last 10-20years or longer. (lead acid will last 3-5 years)

    most have built in BMS (battery monitoring system) and fancy blutooth monitors.

    100% DOD - so you can use all the power.

    next to no voltdrop or volt sag under load . . . . which is nice.

    they are super lightweight compared to standard batteries.

    Most LiFepo4 batteries with integrated BMS`s may work fine with your existing charger/solar/dc-dc charger. (But not via SCR/Smart alternator - see later in thread)

    Two things to note is that you cant charge them if the temp is below 0degC . . . . some have internal heaters, some chargers like the victron have programable LTD Low-Temp cut outs, so its not realy a major concern. Also most need a separate LBD "Low Battery Voltage Disconnect"

    There are some solutions to these later on.

    ***************************************************************


    So when looking for a lithium battery, look for these stats:

    How many charge cycles untill 80% health, (cheaper ones have less)
    How many real Ah capacity (not equivalent Lead acid capacity)
    Integrated BMS? (nearly all have)
    Can you add more batteries in parallel/series.? (most are 2-4 max per bank in series, and many more in parrallel)
    Can it use a EHU standard charger? (most will, using a lithium profile)
    Physical size and dimensions
    whats the charge/discharge temp range? (most cant be charged below 0degC)
    You may need a LBD (Low battery disconnect)
    You may need a LTD (low temp charge disconnect)





    *******************************

    here are some current available options, and users of them.

    Victron SuperPack, - was the original daddy - but expensive and lacks features.

    TN is a new player - cheaper, but less total charge cycles (awaiting a review)

    Relion - tried & Tested (built in heater)(possibly my fav, but expensive)

    LifOS - smaller capacities (nice APP tho) (@ROMANY TAMPIN has one fitted)

    Valence U-Charge XP® Series - medical grade, can be found cheap on ebay etc (Valence U27-12XP @Dellmassive has two (138ah+13bah=276ah)

    Epsilon SB12V1200Wh-M- (built in heater) (possibly my new fav, awesome spec but expensive)(@Salty Spuds has one)

    Ultramax - 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 LITHIUM BATTERY (untested)

    PowerTech - Lithium-Ion Battery 12V – 100Ah – 1.28kWh – PowerBrick+ (untested)

    Renogy - 12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY

    others - updates will follow as more info is available.

    *********************************

    Valence U-Charge XP® Series (12v 45Ah - 144Ah)
    U-Charge® XP for 12V, 24V, 36V, 48V up to 1kV Battery


    TN Power LiFePO4 battery 100ah
    https://www.travelvolts.net/product-page/tn-power-lifepo4-battery-100ah
    (cheaper but has less charge/discharge cycles than some others)
    https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/amfile/file/download/file_id/451/product_id/8649/
    ''''

    Victron SuperPack,
    Lithium SuperPack batteries - an all in one solution - Victron Energy


    Relion - 12V 100AH RELION LITHIUM ION BATTERY RB100
    12v 100AH Relion Lithium ion Battery RB100

    LifOS -
    LiFOS Advanced Lithium Power (https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/Lifos 68 V2 - A4 Brochure.pdf)
    68AH Lithium Battery

    PowerTech - Lithium-Ion Battery 12V – 100Ah – 1.28kWh – PowerBrick+
    Lithium-Ion Battery 12V - 100Ah - 1.28kWh - PowerBrick+ / LiFePO4


    Ultramax - 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 LITHIUM BATTERY
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/LiFePO4-LITHIUM-BATTERY-Leisure-Off-grid/dp/B01BDP4T0C

    Epsilon SB12V1200Wh-M
    Super B
    Epsilon Lightweight Lithium Ion energy / traction battery, 12,5 kg | Super B


    Renogy - 12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY
    12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery (Back Order)


    ******************************************

    Charging a LifePo4 Battery:

    Most chargers now days have a lithium charge profile.
    Which seems to be CC/CV and two stages Absorption and float. And a voltage of around 14.2-14.6v absorption and 13.8v float. (check you battery spec sheet)

    My battery spec was to charge at 14.6v .... but my chargers are at 14.2v (default lithium profile).... this hasn't been an issue and the battery charged fine.

    So any dc-dc or charger with a lithium profile will work..... technically any charger will work provided its CC/CV and at the correct voltage 14.2v -14.6v ish (check you battery spec sheet),(but it might not fully charge it properly if not set to a lithium charge profile) but Im just a bit happier knowing I had the charger set to a lithium profile. So it doesn't seem critical about the voltage, as long as it's over 14.0v... (infact when charging I never saw more than 14.0 across the battery terminals, because as the voltage in the battery rises to near the supply voltage the current drops off.) ( the charger was putting out 14.2 and the battery was sitting at 14.1v 100% charged)

    Also without a DC-DC a large lithium flat battery will cause a massive load on any alternator or SCR as shown on the victron testing video below, so be warned ! without a DC-DC you could damage your alternator/SCR setup . . . Also the lithium's sit at a higher charged rest voltage, mines at 13.8v so you defiantly dont want to add it to a system with a SCR and a AGM starter battery at 12.4V - the lithium will try and discharge into the AGM starter . . . . . so id say a DC-DC is a must for Lifepo4. . . . . some manufacturers say you dont need a special charger and they will charge off the alternator, which is true to a degree, but as you see below victron vid there is a very good chance you will fry your alternator and SCR. The other thing is most Lithiums state the max charge voltage is 14.6v (going above this will damage the battery) . . . . with our smart alternators we see 15.0v during regeng braking (most internal BMS will disconnect the battery at high voltage, but thats a safety thing and not for every day use.) . . . . . So can we use a Lifepo4 battery on a T6 EU6 without a DC-DC charger? - - - - simple answer is no.

    My battery started at 12.8v ...
    Which was basically about 10% charged.... then showed a gradual rise as it was charging... and ended up at 14.0v..... then dropped to 13.8v after resting a while.

    I also tried it on the victron mppt 100/20 solar on the shed.... that worked fine too...... I just changed the battery type in the victron mppt 100/20 menu to lithium....it started charging up go the max current it could....which yesterday was about 8-12amps.

    FWIW I'll be upgrading my redarc bcdc1240 DC-DC charger for the bcdc1250d because the new one has a lithium charge profile and built in MPPT, but ill still be using a 3rd party Victron MPPT. also the increased 50A charge rate will decrease the recharge time(running on the OEM 80Afuse/100Arelay / feed cables from the factory SCR setup (fuses and relay have been removed)).

    **********************************************************************************
    You may also need these depending on your usage scenario: (more details later in thread)

    You may need a LBD (Low battery disconnect)
    You may need a LTD (low temp charge disconnect)


    ************************************************************************************

    Why you should not charge a LiFePO4 battery below 0 degrees


    If you have a Lithium (LiFePO4) battery, there are some things to consider when charging under extreme temperature
    conditions.
    Lithium battery manufacturers often state an operational temperature range of -30°C to +80°C / -22°F to +176°F
    and an optimal temperature range of -10°C to +50°C / 14°F to 122°F (this varies depending on brand and
    model, consult your manufacturer). This is often misconstrued as a safe temperature range for both charging and
    discharging, this is not the case. The operational temperature range is referring to discharging the battery only.
    Charging a Lithium battery in ambient temperatures below 0°C / 32°F must be avoided. The reason for this is it may
    potentially damage the battery and / or reduce its lifespan.

    The optimum ambient temperature for charging a Lithium battery is +5°C to +45°C / 41°F to 113°F.

    When attempting to charge a Lithium battery below 0°C / 32°F a chemical reaction referred to as “Lithium Plating”
    occurs. Lithium plating is caused by the charge current forcing the lithium ions to move at a faster reaction rate and
    accumulate on the surface of the anode.

    When this chemical reaction occurs, the internal resistance of the battery increases and reduces the rate of chemical
    metabolism. This chemical reaction causes a permanent reduction of the battery’s capacity and will continue to
    reduce its capacity each time this reaction occurs.

    If you plan on using a Lithium battery in a location that may drop below 0°C / 32°F, you must be cautious as to when
    you attempt to charge the battery. Simply waiting for the temperature to raise during the day is a simple solution.
    Having the batteries mounted in a location that will have a higher ambient temperature than outside temperature is
    also advisable.


    Having a battery management system that can monitor the batteries temperature will be beneficial and convenient.
    With the touch of a button you can see what the standing temperature of the battery is and therefore whether it is
    safe to charge.


    Why you should not charge a lithium battery below 0 | REDARC Electronics

    **************************************************************************************


    LiFePO4 Battery Buyers Guide! Battleborn vs. Renogy vs. DIY vs. Simpliphi and more!





    .

    How to not blow up your Alternator when charging Lithium



    .

    vict lif.JPG

    1549528950_upload_documents_775_500-Lithium SuperPack 12V 200Ah (front-angle).png

    **********************************************


    The 2019 Nobel Prize in Chemistry - Lithium Ion Batteries



    .

    ***********************************
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2019
    mmi, Bryn23, andys and 1 other person like this.
  2. Bryn23

    Bryn23 Senior Member VIP Member T6 Guru

    I was wondering when they would get round to offering an all in one LifePO4 option with inbuilt BMS and safety voltage cut off.

    I looked at there offerings, but i was put of by the way they had previously had there BMS module and how it interacted with my Votronic system.

    The 70ah current draw seems low on the 200 ah, it goes against the 1200va inverter option as that will be drawing around 100ah.

    Still its great to see more options out there, i saved 49kg going to a 240ah lithium battery
     
    Dellmassive likes this.
  3. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    **************************************************************************

    *NEW* Victron - Lithium SuperPack batteries – an all in one solution

    Lithium SuperPack batteries - an all in one solution - Victron Energy

    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-12,8V-Lithium-SuperPack-EN.pdf

    [​IMG]

    These new Lithium-Ion, LiFePO4 chemistry batteries are often an ideal replacement for many 12V and 24V add a small inverter to charge power tools, run a small microwave or travel kettle for example. Using one SuperPack battery it matches well with the Phoenix Inverter VE.Direct 250VA – 1200VA range. Maybe you’ll add in around 100 to 200Wp of solar panels too using a small MPPT.

    SuperPacks keep everything in one package, by having an integrated BMS and safety switch built-in. No additional components are needed as the internal switch will disconnect the battery in case of over discharge, over charge or high temperature. Simple, compact and safe.

    The Lithium SuperPack
    Victron Energy’s recently introduced Lithium SuperPack range comes in the following capacities and voltages:

    12.8V & 25.6V Lithium SuperPack batteries:
    • 12.8V – 20Ah
    • 12.8V – 60Ah
    • 12.8V – 100Ah
    • 12.8V – 200Ah
    Comparison: SuperPack 60Ah LiFePO4 vs 90Ah AGM
    Let’s compare the 60Ah Li-ion to say a typical 90Ah AGM battery discharged to the commonly accepted economic cycle life of 50% discharge for lead. That would give us 600 cycles at that DOD for the AGM compared to 2,500 at the even deeper discharge of 80% for the LiFePO4. Already you can see you may need to replace your lead-acid type battery 2 to 4 times as often as the Lithium. Of course loads, operating conditions and calendar life have to be factored in too. Regardless you get the idea – Lithium does more and lasts longer.

    The benefits of Lithium don’t stop there though. Whilst LiFePO4 chemistry is considered the safest of them all, it’s worth considering other factors too to decide whether the reduced weight and volume of say NMC is of more importance for your application than LiFePO4 for example. Victron Energy do both types.


    YT - Victron Energy

    Batteries - Victron Energy

    [​IMG]


    dimensions:

    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/12.8V-100Ah-25.6V-50Ah-Lithium-SuperPack.pdf

    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/12.8V-200Ah-Lithium-SuperPack.pdf


    .


    *************

    as well as above, looks like they have an internal heater (edit: not sure about a internal heater now, but they do have temperature monitoring and a low temp charge disconnect) . . . . look at the usage temp range. (-10C discharge & +5C charge (internal BMS cold weather charge disconnect) so its fine to run inside the van during a UK winter. which was a concern on the smart blue Lifepo4`s)

    no bluetooth is a bummer, but hey. its looking like a very feasible AGM battery bank replacement.

    80% DOD,
    2500 cycles,
    12.8v NV,

    Max. cont. discharge current 45A 50A 70A Peak discharge current (10 sec) 80A 100A 100A

    Operating temperature Discharge: -10°C to +50°C Charge: +5°C to +45°C

    OPERATING CONDITIONS :
    Parallel configuration Yes, unlimited
    Series configuration No
    Operating temperature Discharge: -10°C to +50°C Charge: +5°C to +45°C
    Storage temperature -40°C to +65°C
    Max. storage time when fully charged 1 year ≤ 25°C 3 months ≤ 40°C
    Humidity (non-condensing) Max. 95%
     
    Last edited: 22 Sep 2019
  4. Bryn23

    Bryn23 Senior Member VIP Member T6 Guru

    Interesting about the -40, although that looks like that is just the Storage temp, discharge is -10 C and charge is +5 C

    I also noticed that there was a 10% reduction in energy at 0 degrees, but thats not really an issue, as the heater would be running at those temps.

    It wouldn't have been hard to offer an bluetooth option, as it would only be a $5 option during manufacture, i guess they still want people to buy their integrated shunt monitors.

    i do like the parallel configuration, that allows more flexibility.
     
    Dellmassive likes this.
  5. Ed Webb

    Ed Webb Webber VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    Would you need to change your current chargers etc?
     
  6. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    Most chargers have a lithium charge profile.

    The Redarc dc-dc does, as does the victron MPPT and bluesmart charger, so it's a case of check your charger spec.

    Though I looks like with the integrated BMS that it's fairly durable and will accept most charge sources.......

    Integrated BMS and safety switch The SuperPack batteries are extremely easy to install, not needing any additional components. The internal switch will disconnect the battery in case of over discharge, over charge or high temperature.

    Charge voltage, absorption** 14,2V – 14,4V
    Charge voltage, float 13,5V
    Max. cont. charge current 35A 50A 70A (Lithium SuperPack LSP 12,8/50 LSP 12,8/100 LSP 12,8/200)

    **The absorption period should preferably not exceed 4 hrs. A longer absorption period may slightly reduce service life

    EG: 100Ah 1280Wh 12.8v LiFePO4
    max charge voltage 14.6v
    rec charge voltage 14.2v
    float charge voltage 13.6v
    max charge current 50A

    ************************************

    Blue Smart IP65 Charger (120V and 230V)

    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Folder-Blue-Smart-IP65-charger-230V-EN_web.pdf

    Li-ion battery mode The Blue Smart IP65 Charger uses a specific charging algorithm for Li-ion (LiFePO₄) batteries, with automatic Li-ion under voltage protection reset.

    **********************************
    SmartSolar MPPT 75/10, 75/15, 100/15 & 100/20

    SmartSolar MPPT 75/10, 75/15, 100/15 & 100/20 - Victron Energy

    Programmable battery charge algorithm See the software section on our website for details

    Charge voltage 'absorption' 14,4V / 28,8V (adjustable) 57,6V (adj.) Charge voltage 'float' 13,8V / 27,6V (adjustable) 55,2V (adj.)
    ***********************************************
    The REDARC BCDC1240D

    Dual Input 40A In-vehicle DC Battery Charger
    • Suitable for AGM, GEL, standard lead acid, calcium and LiFePO4 batteries
    ************************************************************************
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Feb 2019
    Bryn23 likes this.
  7. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    Downsides
    Not wanting to sound too evangelical, we also need to consider the few downsides of Li-ion.

    • Higher upfront cost and to some extent higher capital risk.
    • Charging is restricted to the +5°C to +45° range, subject to an internal means of blocking the charge source when the temperature is below +5°C. Note this is currently automatically possible with Victron MPPTs when used in conjunction with the Smart Battery Sense for instance. Other products are being worked on to achieve this too and documentation to that effect will be updated in due course.
    • The SuperPack (unlike other Victron Lithiums) is not designed for series connections.
    • The peak and maximum continuous discharge current of the SuperPack range is not as much as some of our Lithium batteries as its related to the BMS and the disconnect being internal to the battery – so do check the datasheet to make sure the current peak and discharge ratings suit your needs – or choose from the Lithium battery 12.8V & 25.6V Smart or the Lithium battery 24V range or build a parallel SuperPack bank.
    Conclusion
    Whatever your decision when purchasing new batteries, maybe it is time to give the Lithium SuperPack batteries a chance. There’s LiFe after Lead you know – but as I’ve shown that all depends on what you want to achieve. Is it less weight, less volume, maybe it’s capacity or voltage or any of the multitude of factors that go into choosing a battery system.

    Whatever you choose Victron have plenty of choice – with a large range of battery types and sizes: Batteries - Victron Energy
     
    Ed Webb and Bryn23 like this.
  8. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    looks like my preference on these would be:
    • 2x 12.8V – 100Ah
    or
    • 1x 12.8V – 200Ah
    depending the sizes stated above and how they could fit under the seats or else where. . . . .

    just have to wait now for the release dates and some real world testing and a YT video or 2.

    but its looking promising and hopefully cheaper than the current Victron Lithium battery 12,8V & 25,6V Smart range

    Lithium battery 12,8V & 25,6V Smart - Victron Energy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Feb 2019
  9. Loz

    Loz California 204 DSG 4Motion MY17 VCDS User Admin Moderator VIP Member

    Map
    dare I ask how much these are?
     
  10. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    not sure yet as they have just been announced on Victrons blog,

    but in comparison the other ones i was looking at were £1289 for the 100Ah, and you needed a separate BMS too!

    Victron Lithium Ion Battery - 12V 100Ah - Smart | Energy Solutions

    it seems a ton of cash . . . . . .

    but when you work it out over a 10year life-cycle Lithium is cheaper, by 2.4 times (due to the amount of AGMs you need to buy over a 10year ).

    based on,

    you need 2x AGMS for the same Ah due to a 50% max DOD of AGM.

    500 charge cycles of AGM vs 2500 for lithium.


    official blurb:


    Comparison: SuperPack 60Ah LiFePO4 vs 90Ah AGM
    Let’s compare the 60Ah Li-ion to say a typical 90Ah AGM battery discharged to the commonly accepted economic cycle life of 50% discharge for lead. That would give us 600 cycles at that DOD for the AGM compared to 2,500 at the even deeper discharge of 80% for the LiFePO4. Already you can see you may need to replace your lead-acid type battery 2 to 4 times as often as the Lithium. Of course loads, operating conditions and calendar life have to be factored in too. Regardless you get the idea – Lithium does more and lasts longer.

    The benefits of Lithium don’t stop there though. Whilst LiFePO4 chemistry is considered the safest of them all, it’s worth considering other factors too to decide whether the reduced weight and volume of say NMC is of more importance for your application than LiFePO4 for example. Victron Energy do both types. These star graphs do a good job of explaining the differences: Types of Lithium-ion Batteries – Battery University

    60Ah SuperPack vs
    90Ah AGM

    Weight
    9.5kg vs 27kg

    Size (mm)
    229 x 138 x 213 vs 350 x 167 x 183

    Useable energy @ 25°C
    614Wh vs 540Wh

    Cycle life
    2,500 cycles vs 600 cycles

    Cost
    x 2.5 (approx) vs x 1
    Notes for the table above:

    • Useable energy and cycle life are based on 80% depth of discharge for Li-ion and 50% for AGM, these being considered the most economic use of those battery types.
    • Higher loads with lead will further reduce available Wh (Peukert’s Law) when compared to Li-ion.
    • Capacity is also reduced for both types by temperatures below their 25°C temperature rating (see their respective datasheets)
    Make what you will of the above and whilst you are pondering the pros and cons don’t forget to take these additional factors into account for the comparison above.

    • Shipping: If you are replacing your lead from 2 to 4 times as often as Li-on and the fact that the lead weighs around 3 to 4 times as much (depends on Li-ion chemistry used) – then do consider the extra shipping costs.
    • Voltage stability: The voltage profile is far flatter for Li-ion compared to lead.
    • Voltage sag: Subject to the load, voltage sag with lead is significant compared to Li-ion.
    • Li-ion has much faster charge times and if charging from a generator it saves on generator runtime.
    Other factors to consider
    Is the above enough to convince you of why Lithium might be a better alternative than AGM or indeed Gel? Personally I’m sold on Lithium, but if you are not here’s a few things further to consider:

    1. A lead-acid battery will fail prematurely due to sulfation if it operates in deficit mode for long periods of time (i.e. if the battery is rarely, or never at all, fully charged). It will also fail early if left partially charged or worse, fully discharged.
    2. By comparison a Lithium-Ion battery does not need to be fully charged. This is a major advantage of Li-ion compared to lead-acid which needs to be fully charged often to prevent sulfation.
    1. Efficiency. In several applications (especially off-grid solar), energy efficiency can be of crucial importance. The round-trip energy efficiency (discharge from 100% to 0% and back to 100% charged) of the average lead-acid battery is 80%.
    2. The round-trip energy efficiency of a Li-ion battery is 92%.
    1. The charge process of lead-acid batteries becomes particularly inefficient when the 80% state of charge has been reached, resulting in efficiencies of 50% or even less in solar systems where several days of reserve energy are required (battery operating in 70% to 100% charged state).
    2. In contrast, a Li-ion battery will still achieve 90% efficiency even under shallow discharge conditions.
     
  11. andys

    andys Senior Member VIP Member T6 Legend

    I'm convinced they're a good thing but I don't think they can be justified financially at the moment, certainly I couldn't for my use. Amortising over 10yrs is a bit of a red herring really, I doubt many of us keep a van for 10yrs and yes you could take it from van to van, but then you'd need to put a lead acid battery in the van you were selling therefore adding to the cost. I've never had a van for long enough that the leisure battery needed replacing. My cut-off would be £500, below that I'd go for it, above I'll stick to what I've got.
     
    OllieGBR and Dellmassive like this.
  12. travelvolts

    travelvolts Auto Electrician Trade Member T6 Guru

    Check out the North Star ones.
     
    rod_vw and Dellmassive like this.
  13. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
  14. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    Relion - 12V 100AH RELION LITHIUM ION BATTERY RB100
    12v 100AH Relion Lithium ion Battery RB100

    Annotation 2019-07-26 104340.jpg

    **************************************************

    @czmate1999 has bought these to my attention - the specs look good and the price fair: Thanks dude =]

    LiFePO4 Battery UK | 20+ Years' Expertise | Quality Source

    LiFePO4 Li-ION HD Series Battery
    LiFePO4 Li-ION HD Series Deep Cycle Leisure Batteries are Heavy Duty, Robust construction designed for use in Cars, Commercial Vehicles, Motor Boats, Yachts, Caravans, Campervans, RV's and other high demand applications.

    LiFePO4 Batteries should not be charged below 0 degrees centigrade. So external charge controllers are recommended IF the battery is fitted in a location that can be below 0 degrees whilst charging. Quality source’s Novel series batteries Incorporate a smart Battery management system, that not only shows the actual battery temperature, but also disconnects charging when the temperature is below or above the preset parameters,


    LiFePO4 Li-ION HD Series Battery


    [​IMG]

    ..

    [​IMG]

    ..

    12V 100Ah Lithium Battery LiFePO4 HD Series
    12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery (HD)
    Deep cycle leisure battery that is ideally suited for use in power boats, sailing craft, canal boats, caravans, motor homes, RV’s, off-road winch batteries, Land Rover winch batteries, invalid carriages, personal mobility scooters. Infrequently used classic and second cars, motorsport, garden machinery tractors, electric vehicles at 12V, 24V,36V,48V through series connections. Electric trolling motors. Mobile Electric lift trucks, Powered trolleys etc.

    FEATURES

    HD series lithium battery using LiFePO4 battery cells offer the following advantages:

    ◆ Longer life compared to lead acid battery more than 2000 cycle life. Guaranteed greater than 80% capacity after 2000 cycles*of 80% discharge. (1 cycle per day = 5.4 years!) with reduced % discharge the batteries will last much longer than this, with 4000-6000+ cycles usually achieved, depending on charge discharge rates and operation temperature etc.

    ◆ Up to 60% weight saving

    ◆ 100% usable capacity (100Ah LiFePO4 approximately offers the same usable energy as a 160Ah Lead Acid battery) due to offering full voltage and current even when 80% discharged, compared to lead acid that typically only offers the required voltage at upto 50% discharged.

    ◆ More energy with 1/3 smaller size

    ◆ Less than 3% self discharging per month.

    ◆ Built in safety protection

    ◆ Zero maintenance

    ◆ Easy installation

    ◆ Eco-friendly

    ◆ Quality guaranteed, 7 year warranty upto 2000 cycles. *As determined from integral BMS.

    ◆ Fast charging, Charge at 20Amps in under 5 hours from flat with one of our high performance chargers.

    ◆Can be connected in series upto 4 units to make 24V, 36V or 48V 100Ah system. Using internal BMS no other controller needed.

    or

    ◆ Can be connected in parallel upto 4 units to make 200Ah, 300Ah or 400Ah 12V system. Using internal BMS no other controller needed.

    SPECIFICATIONS

    Items Parameter
    Battery Type LiFePO4
    Nominal Voltage 12.8V
    Nominal Capacity 100Ah
    Energy 1.28KWh
    Internal Resistance ≤20mΩ
    Series & Parallel Application up to 4 series 4 parallel connected application
    Limited Charge Voltage 14.6±0.2V
    Floating Charge Voltage 13.8±0.2V
    Charge Method CC/CV
    Discharge Cut-off Voltage 10.0V
    Standard Charge Current 20A (100Ah max charge rate)
    Max. Continuous Discharge Current (<30min) 100A
    Pulse Discharge Current (<5s) 200-400A
    Cycle Life >2000 cycles
    Dimension Length: 329±2mm
    Width: 172±2mm
    Height: 214±2mm
    Weight 15±0.2Kg
    Operation Temperature Range Charge: 0~45℃;
    Discharge: -20~60℃
    Recommended operating temperature: 15℃~35℃
    Self-Discharge Rate Residual capacity: ≤3%/month; ≤15%/years
    Reversible capacity: ≤1.5%/month; ≤8%/years
    Storage Temperature & Humidity Range Less than 1 month: -20℃~35℃, 45%RH~75%RH
    Less than 3 months: -10℃~35℃, 45%RH~75%RH
    Recommended storage environment: 15℃~35℃,45%RH~75%RH


    Quality standards:

    CE marked tested to EU Council Directive 2014/30/EU Electromagnetic Compatibility

    test std. EN 61000-6-3: 2007+A1: 2011 EN 61000-6-1: 2007.

    For most customers running an inverter Quality Source LiFePO4 batteries by POLINOVEL of similar size to lead acid,AGM etc will almost double the time you can run your inverter for. As LiFePO4 batteries can be drained to 80-100% of quoted capacity and will continue to deliver full voltage at much lower state of charge compared to lead acid batteries that drop voltage under heavy loads and reduce voltage progressively from a state of charge below 50%.

    The extra Usable capacity of LiFePO4 and the very long cycle life 4-8 times that of lead acid make LiFePO4 cheaper in the long run and much more environmentally friendly.

    Over their lifespan 1 x LiFePO4 100Ah battery offers the same usable energy as almost 2 lead acid 80Ah units that would need to be changed 4 x before the LiFePO4 is at 80% of its original storage capacity. LiFePO4 is not 8 x more expensive than a good lead acid 500 cycle guaranteed battery and contains 8 x less plastic than lead acid units.

    1 x LiFePO4 battery at 14.6kg replaces 8 x 19Kg = 152kg of toxic lead and concentrated sulphuric acid during its lifetime. With associated carbon emissions to move these over their lifecycle.

    Quality Source, buy well, Buy once to last.


    ****************************************************
     
    Last edited: 21 Nov 2019
  15. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    LifOS -
    LiFOS Advanced Lithium Power (https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/Lifos 68 V2 - A4 Brochure.pdf)
    68AH Lithium Battery

    .

    Annotation 2019-07-26 104511.jpg

    .


    ********************************

    Valence U-Charge XP® Series (12v 45Ah - 144Ah)
    U-Charge® XP for 12V, 24V, 36V, 48V up to 1kV Battery

    Download Data Sheets - Lithium Werks

    Valence U-Charge XP® Series
    The U-Charge XP®series is a family of 12, 18, 24 and 36 volt battery modules, available in a variety of capacities, to be used as the building block of a larger energy storage system by assembling in series or parallel. The modular approach allows for flexible configurations to match almost any voltage and capacity requirements. Prototype systems can assembled faster than any time previously, therefore reducing project development time and decreasing non-recurring engineering (NRE) expenses.

    U-Charge XP® batteries incorporate safe lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) offering intrinsic safety with twice the run-time and 70% the weight of similarly sized sealed lead-acid batteries. The U-Charge series offers energy storage solutions in standard battery sizes (per the Battery Council International) for a wide variety of applications. They have been successfully used in commercial vehicles such as EV buses, delivery trucks, port tractors, and marine vessels. XP modules are now being considered for new markets such as material handling, mining equipment and energy storage systems.

    modular-battery-pack.png

    Hundreds of thousands of U-Charge® systems have been deployed in a range of equipment since 2006. These systems provide customers in the Motive, Marine, Industrial and Back Up Power market sectors complete confidence in the proven capabilities of our systems. High level benefits for each vertical market include:

    Motive – High cycle life and run-time

    Marine – Zero maintenance

    Material Handling – Fast charging and longer run-time

    Industrial – Lower cost of ownership

    Energy Storage – Excellent float life

    • >4000 cycles (80% DOD)
    • Exceptional voltage stability
    • Standard voltage range from 12V – 1000V
    • Maintenance free
    • Automatic Intra and Inter module balancing
    • Can be charged using most standard lead acid chargers
    • Communication of monitored data via Battery Management System (BMS)
    • Rugged mechanical design
    • Flame retardant plastics
    • LED battery status indicator
    • Carrying Straps (U24, U27, UEV models)
    • Manufactured in standard BCI sizes

    Charge-performance-web.jpg

    life-cycle-performance-web.jpg

    ****************



    *********************


    .....
     
    Last edited: 21 Nov 2019
  16. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    TN Power LiFePO4 battery 100ah
    https://www.travelvolts.net/product-page/tn-power-lifepo4-battery-100ah
    (cheaper but has less charge/discharge cycles than some others)
    https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/amfile/file/download/file_id/451/product_id/8649/
    ''''

    .
    Annotation 2019-07-26 104611.jpg

    .

    LFP 12.8V Series


    .

    Product Details
    Product Features

    ● Adopting lithium iron phosphate (LFP) cells with high safety and high energy density, fast charging ability, strong adaptability, environment friendly

    ● Excellent consistence of cells ensured by fully automated production line

    ● Great low and high temperature performance, the battery capacity could reach 70% above at -20℃

    ● Wider operation temperature range:-20℃~ 60℃

    ● High Power Density: Lighter weight, about 1/3 weight of lead-acid batteries

    ● Longer Cycle Life: ≥2000 circles under the condition of standard discharge

    ● High power, high current charge and discharge(1C)

    ● Low self-discharge rate: ≤4%/ month

    ● Safe and Reliable: No floating metal lithium assures a safer usage. Built-in BMS, with overload, overcharge, over-discharge, high temperature protection, and balance functions.



    Application

    ● UPS ● Solar & Wind power system
    ● Golf Cart ● Electric vehicle, E-bike, E-rickshaw e.g.
    ● Lighting

    LFP Models replace Lead acid ones
    TN MODEL
    Nominal

    Voltage

    Nominal

    Capacity

    @0.2C

    Dimension (mm)
    Weight

    (kg)

    Dimension (inch)
    Weight

    (lbs)

    Lead acid

    Case Model

    L W H TH L W H TH
    TN-LFP6.4V6AH 6.4 6 70 47 102 107 0.40 2.76 1.85 4.02 4.21 0.88 6V4Ah
    TN-LFP6.4V7AH 6.4 7 70 47 102 107 0.54 2.76 1.85 4.02 4.21 1.19 6V7Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V6Ah(A) 12.8 6 90 70 101 107 0.75 3.54 2.76 3.98 4.21 1.65 12V5Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V6Ah(B) 12.8 6 151 65 94 100 1.05 5.94 2.56 3.70 3.94 2.32 12V7Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V7Ah 12.8 7 151 65 94 100 1.06 5.94 2.56 3.70 3.94 2.34 12V7Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V9Ah 12.8 9 151 65 94 100 1.34 5.94 2.56 3.70 3.94 2.96 12V7Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V12AH 12.8 12 151 98 95 101 1.55 5.94 3.86 3.74 3.98 3.42 12V12Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V24Ah 12.8 24 181 77 167 167 2.90 7.13 3.03 6.57 6.57 6.40 12V20Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V30Ah 12.8 30 165 175 125 125 3.90 6.50 6.89 4.92 4.92 8.61 12V24Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V33Ah 12.8 33 195 130 156 167 4.90 7.68 5.12 6.14 6.57 10.81 12V33Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V42Ah 12.8 42 197 165 170 170 5.70 7.76 6.50 6.69 6.69 12.58 12V40Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V54AH 12.8 54 229 138 212 217 6.70 9.02 5.43 8.35 8.54 14.78 12V55Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V84Ah 12.8 84 260 169 213 218 10.20 10.24 6.65 8.39 8.58 22.51 12V70Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V100Ah 12.8 100 328 172 215 220 13.10 12.91 6.77 8.46 8.66 28.91 12V100Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V150Ah 12.8 150 483 170 240 240 19.20 19.02 6.69 9.45 9.45 42.36 12V150Ah
    TN-LFP12.8V200Ah 12.8 200 522 238 218 220 27.00 20.55 9.37 8.58 8.66 59.58 12V200Ah

    *******************************************************

    Epsilon SB12V1200Wh-M
    Super B

    Epsilon Lightweight Lithium Ion energy / traction battery, 12,5 kg | Super B

    Epsilon_web.png

    Epsilon SB12V1200Wh-M

    The Epsilon is a drop-in lead-acid replacement, with all the benefits of Lithium Iron Phosphate. It has superior weight reduction, enormous energy reserves and stable voltage even at extreme loads. This lithium battery is suitable for 12V installations. Eliminating the need for an external safety relay means the lithium battery is very easy to install.

    Battery monitoring
    The Super B Epsilon has integrated battery monitoring which provides details about its status such as voltage, current, temperature, state of charge and time remaining. Hands-on monitoring is also possible via Bluetooth and LED indicators to inform you about the actual status of your battery. The free BeInCharge app provides 24/7 information about the state of charge, time to go and status of the battery.

    Features



      • Traction battery
      • Drop-in replacement for AGM/GEL lead acid LN5 batteries
      • Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4): safe lithium technology
      • Superior abuse tolerance
      • Integrated short circuit protection
      • Maintenance free
      • Integrated BMS (Battery-Management system
      • Fast charging
      • Charge current regulator, for safe low-temperature charging
      • CANopen and Bluetooth interface for battery monitoring
      • Battery monitoring / History Storage
      • Adaptive cell balancing
      • Low self-discharge
      • Monitoring via BeInCharge Bluetooth app for iOS and Android
    (h2>Performance




      • High capacity (can power coffee machines, air conditioning and other devices that could not be powered by traditional batteries
      • Low weight (-20kg compared to lead acid)
      • High cycle count, up to 5000 cycles
      • High discharge current, 200A continuous, 350A pulse (30s)
      • >96% efficiency means more efficient (solar) charging and using almost all available energy
    Safety
    Super B batteries are based on Lithium Iron Phosphate technology (LiFePO4). This is the safest Lithium technology available today. On top of that our bespoke casing and electronics further increase safety and durability.

    Environment
    Super B batteries do not contain lead. The LiFePO4 technology is an environmental-friendly energy storage solution.

    3-year warranty
    Super B’s 3-year warranty offers the best peace of mind. It is the benefit of years of continuous engineering improvement and proven experience with all of our batteries in the harshest environments.

    App
    Download the free Be in charge app for iPhone or Android.



    Epsilon SB12V1200Wh-M

    Super B

    **********************************************************************


    Renogy - 12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY (BACK ORDER)

    12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery (Back Order)

    98.jpg

    DESCRIPTION
    The Renogy Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections and provides more flexibility for battery connection thanks to its RJ45 communication ports. The integrated smart battery management system (BMS) not only protects this 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 battery from various abnormal conditions but monitors and manages the charging/discharging process. The state-of-the-art battery cells ensure a long cycle life and exceptional discharge performance. If you’re searching for a deep cycle battery for caravan, cabin, or marine use, then this lightweight, auto-balanced, ultra-safe, long-cycle-life lithium-ion battery is the perfect plug-and-play solution for you!

    The Renogy Adventurer Li and Rover charge controller are fully compatible with this battery. If you have any questions regarding this product, please call us at 1 (909) 287-7111 or email sales@renogy.com.

    Note:

    • Please be aware that if the batteries' Battery Management System (BMS) is activated and the battery voltage shows 0V, you must use a compatible Li charger to reactivate our Li batteries.
    • Make sure to tightly screw the battery terminals in, having loose battery terminals will cause the terminals to build up heat resulting in damage to the battery.
    • DO NOT string this battery in series. It is made ONLY for parallel connections using identical batteries.


    KEY FEATURES
    Auto-Balance
    • Connects multiple batteries in parallel safely without internal state non-uniformity issues.
    Ultra-Safety
    • The battery management system (BMS) provides comprehensive protection to the battery and manages the charging/discharging process wisely.
    Uncompromised Quality
    • State-of-the-art battery cells ensure a lifespan of more than 4000 cycles, 100A continuous discharge current, and a wide range of operation temperature.
    Communication Port
    • The RJ45 communication ports enable data transmission to meet the needs of different usage scenarios.



    SPECIFICATIONS
    Rated Capacity:100Ah Insulation Resistance: 500V DC, ≥ 10 MΩ
    Nominal Voltage:12.8V Maximum Continuous Charging Current: 50 A
    Voltage Range: 10~14.8 V Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 100 A
    Operating Temperature: -20~50 ℃ Communication Port: RJ45 (RS485 Protocol)
    Storage Temperature: -25~65℃ Connection Method: Parallel
    Dimensions: 289 x 172 x 187.5 mm / 11.38 x 6.77 x 7.38 inch Weight: 11.79 kg / 26 lb
    Protection Rate: IP54




     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2019
  17. Bryn23

    Bryn23 Senior Member VIP Member T6 Guru

    I’m impressed with the 240 ah lithium LiFe04 battery we have, so far, we are only 9-10 days into our year long trip.

    this thing charges up quick to 100% capacity. We are using 60-90amps a day with the diesel heater, fridge and induction cooking.

    Induction uses a fair bit, but it’s nicer than cooking with gas inside and I properly make to much fresh coffee during the day.

    Every morning so far has been -1 to -5 degrees, so the heater has been getting used a far bit running all night, the solar helps when parked up, but after driving around looking at places it’s normally fully charged or close to it.

    This arvo was the first time we have plugged it in to mains, but as we are parked up for a few days in the one spot and if I’m forced to pay for a powered site I might as well use it.

    One thing I wish I did was, if I had planned on going lithium from the start of my build, it would have been to get the biggest charger Votronic made, as these things can handle up a lot of charging amps and would help if I’m only getting less than an hour of driving time.
     
    OllieGBR and Markymark like this.
  18. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map
    awsome,

    what make battery is it?
    what voltronic charger have you got? (dc-dc + EHU?)
    what solar have you got ?
     
  19. Bryn23

    Bryn23 Senior Member VIP Member T6 Guru

    I can’t remember the battery’s name off the top of my head, it’s somewhere in my build thread, it’s an Australian company, but it’s just a rebadged LiFePO4 with integrated BMS from China, like the rest of the Lithium battery’s being released at the moment.

    I’m running a Votronic triple charger 30/20/250 unit, gives me 30amps with dc-dc, 20 amps when plugged into 230 volt and max 250 watt panel.

    I’m running a 180 watt commercial semi flex panel, I’m seeing getting between 6-8 amps an hour during winter.

    I’m also using a Votronic inverter, their Bluetooth module, Jupiter control panel and tank senders, it’s somewhere there in my build thread.

    My next build on a Crafter MWB 4motion will most likely be at least a 24 volt 400ah lithium bank, as an off the grid air con solution is needed for some relief in summer around were we live in Queensland, and there are a few 24volt air con systems avail here.

    I’m looking forwards to seeing what Dc-dc option Victron offer next year, as I believe they are working on releasing an DC-DC unit.




    edit - the build - T6 Midroof LWB Wheelchair Campervan Build
     
    Dellmassive likes this.
  20. Dellmassive

    Dellmassive 204 T32 DSG LWB SPORTLINE PV MY18 VCDS User Moderator VIP Member T6 Legend

    Map

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice