Low temperature lithium battery

[G8gs]

Sure .

Forward the email to me.

Dellmassive@gmail.com

.

should be with ya, in figures few mate.

 

[Dellmassive]

- NEW BATTERY & TEST -

RENOGY 12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY W/ SELF-HEATING FUNCTION

Pt2

+++


battery install into battery box and charge up.

size wize its a bit smaller than the Valence.


View attachment 133921

a bit shorter in height . .


View attachment 133922

but same width . . .


View attachment 133923


...

taking the opportunity i added some 10mm dense foam to the base of the box.

View attachment 133924


the battey drops in perfectly . . .

View attachment 133925

then terminals covered for safety..

temp monitor velcroed in . .

and BT2 unit connected and velcroed in . . .

we are ready for a test.

View attachment 133926


connecting the 30A Victron charger we are getting under 20A being pulled at 66% SOC which i wasnt expecting?

i was expecting the full 30A? (like the Poweroad and Valance would draw)

View attachment 133927View attachment 133928

checking the charger settings i see that the default Lifepo4 setting is for 14.2v.

so i created a new Profile called Renogy and set the charge voltage to 14.4v

View attachment 133929

this raised the current draw from the charger to just under 20A . . . .

im still not sure why the battery is only drawing 20A from a 30A charger?


View attachment 133930

.


this may have something to do with it . . . .

During the standard charging process, the battery is first charged at a constant current of 20A until the battery voltage reaches 14.4V. Then, the battery is charged at a constant voltage of 14.4V while tapering the charge current


View attachment 133935



but page 18 in the spec states 50A max cont` charge rate . . . . . so im still not 100% sure yet.


View attachment 133934


+++++


well monitor the battery as it charges . .


View attachment 133936






....

Edit:
battery fully charged now.


View attachment 133999

the charger shows about 34Ah going into the battery.

View attachment 134000

the charge curve from the Smart shunt looks good.


View attachment 134001

.

the Renogy APP shows 100% SOC.

View attachment 134002

.


the Shunt has reset to 100% SOC also.

View attachment 134003
.
.



looks like we are good and ready for a discharge test.


.

Following on from this test . . .

and having the kit out while testing the new ROAMER seat Base battery - Roamer LiFePO4 Gen2 230Ah Seatbase battery -- "How I Done It" --




i thought i would test the Renogy for LOW current to see if the BMS can detect low currents.

The Poweroad Heated version i have above DOESENT meter out currents less than an amp . . . <1A ( 1000mA)


so lets see how the Renogy W/Heater fairs . . .




this is the setup. . .


200w electronic adjustable load . . battery and BT-2 monitor with the APP.





starting high we can see no issues with 4.8A . . .





.


and 7.1A . . . .




so lets drop down low . . .


here we have 1.0A . . . . report fine by the BMS.




next we drop lower to . . . 0.8A ( 800mA ) - works great.




now drop to 0.5A (500mA) - still going =]





now 0.3A (300mA) - all good.




down to 0.1A (100mA)

at this point the BMS looses the ability to register any current flow.

That's amazing . for a 150A BMS . . . .


the Poweroad wont detect <1A

The ROAMER <0.5A ( but its 250A BMS)




so there we have the testing . . . . The Renogy is a Great battery that will meter out power draws down to 0.1A.

that means that when installed in your van the BMS SOC meter wont drift or say its full when really its empty due to low level parasitic draws draining the battery down.

Go Renogy .. =]


.

 

[Raul a/3]

That’s still double compared to a victron BM shunt, but pretty good for a battery bms. Hence the importance of a battery monitor. I would trust the shunt over any battery bms. The victron registers load from 0,05A, 0,5-0,6w in a 12v system.

 

[Dellmassive]

That’s still double compared to a victron BM shunt, but pretty good for a battery bms. Hence the importance of a battery monitor. I would trust the shunt over any battery bms. The victron registers load from 0,05A, 0,5-0,6w in a 12v system.

Agreed that its very good . . .

and agreed that a stand alone shunt is also a worth while investment. . .

and Recommending #TeamBlue (Victron Kit) goes without saying.

Although Renogy is no Victron . . . . . i happily place it a good 2nd place.

based on practically testing and owning the kit . .

Renogy - Lifepo4 battery/ DC-DC chargers/ solar MPPT/ soalr Panels / Inverters - its all been very good quality for the money compared to what's available on the market for the money.

++++++


todays earlier testing . . .

 

[Mick]

Went to the van yesterday that has beens standing idle for 7 days. The PowerRoad battery was totally flat from when I left it at 80%. The low voltage protection had kicked in.

I thought everything was switched off. I'd also turned the solar charging off in the Victron app too keep it around 80%.

Charged it up and I had a 0.5a - 0.7a phantom drain on it according to my BMV 712. Spent ages looking for it. Turned out the 13a socket, which has a separate, remote, on/off switch, connected to the Victon inverter was switched on with nothing plugged into the socket. Switched it off and the drian went away

No idea how that is happening!

 

[catfood12]

Gotta say im feeling like a kid on Christmas Eve . . .

its Winter 2021/2022 and we have finally had some cold weather ( in SE UK / London )

Now its not the six inches of snow i wanted . . . . but its good enough.

The plan is to finally test these Sub-Zero Lithium's and to test what they do when its cold and to prove the manufactures claims.

the forecast is -3DegC over night and a good 0C for the whole morning.

the test begins the previous night,

View attachment 140932

both battery boxes are left outside . . . but after 3hrs they were still showing warm above 10deg C.


So i decided that the Tool box was insulating them from the cold.

so i opened the boxes . .


View attachment 140933



jumping out of bed the following day like a kid on Christmas morning i looked out the window to a frosty winters morning . .

just what id been waiting for . . . . for almost a whole year (sure i could empty out the kitchen freezer to do the test . . . but think id have to deal with the world war 3 aftermath).


This what i saw the following day . . .



View attachment 140934View attachment 140935View attachment 140936View attachment 140937View attachment 140938


the battery's were showing a solid 0degc - perfect.

View attachment 140944
View attachment 140939



the temp sensors i added to the boxes we having a metldown . . . they were showing -5 degc .

but the button battery cells were showing only 2% charge . . . . those little batteries dont like being cold - thats for sure.
View attachment 140940View attachment 140941





The spec on these and most lithium batterys its that they can be used ie - discharged down to -20 degC,

but

not charged below 5degc. below this point you need to maualy switch off the incoming charge to protect the batterys.

or

the newer Lithium batterys have a feature built into the BMS that will BLOCK incoming charge current, and keep blocking it unit the battery temp rises . . . to say 10degc - at which point the BMS will let the charge into the battery.

So the feature is not a hard switch on/off - its more of a one way street affair, allowing power out of the battery but blocking any incoming power.


++++


these Sub-Zero batteries are slightly different in the fact that they have internal heaters which will warm the battery at temps below 5degc to enable them to charge even at extemely cold temps.


lets see how they perform.

we have the Poweroad LINC INFI 100Ah - 12V 100AH POWEROAD INFINITY SUBZERO LOW TEMPERATURE LITHIUM LIFEPO4 BATTERY WITH BLUETOOTH MONITORING - Alpha Batteries

View attachment 140942


.



and the Renogy 100Ah w/self heat - 12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Self-Heating Function




View attachment 140943












.

Awesome and very interesting work again @Dellmassive. Great write up and report.

Do you have a link or info to the SensorPro units? Google is taking me down a few rabbit holes.

We use the Tempo Disc sensors for stuff. Very similar, but the app is flaky and they're £25 each, so have been looking for an alternative.

 

[Dellmassive]

Went to the van yesterday that has beens standing idle for 7 days. The PowerRoad battery was totally flat from when I left it at 80%. The low voltage protection had kicked in.

I thought everything was switched off. I'd also turned the solar charging off in the Victron app too keep it around 80%.

Charged it up and I had a 0.5a - 0.7a phantom drain on it according to my BMV 712. Spent ages looking for it. Turned out the 13a socket, which has a separate, remote, on/off switch, connected to the Victon inverter was switched on with nothing plugged into the socket. Switched it off and the drian went away

No idea how that is happening!

inverters use standby power when switched on - even when nothing is connected to the 240v side.

so thats normal.

i have this Remote ON/OFF switch on my Victron inverter . . . - Victron Energy Phoenix Inverter Control VE.Direct - REC040010210R : Amazon.co.uk: Automotive





and as a side note . . . its good to run the battery down flat once and a while, it will help keep the BMS SOC meter in check. (top ballance/bottom ballance)

ie reset the BMS to 0% when flat - then recalibrate to 100% when fully charged.

 

[Dellmassive]

Awesome and very interesting work again @Dellmassive. Great write up and report.

Do you have a link or info to the SensorPro units? Google is taking me down a few rabbit holes.

We use the Tempo Disc sensors for stuff. Very similar, but the app is flaky and they're £25 each, so have been looking for an alternative.

Thanks . . glad you liked the testing.

The SensoPro Temp/humidity units were from Amazon from the other year.

previous units 2019 (Thermo APP): Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It --

newer units 2020 (SensorPro APP): - Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It --






+++++++++


But it looks like they have superseded those and have a new range again - ?

https://amzn.to/3rdrKFa

also have a look at the Higher Quality GOVEE units (these are BT & WIFI) :

https://amzn.to/3Hf9IIj

 

[Dellmassive]

@catfood12

FWIW

there is a new kid on the block,

premium product made in Finland and works with some of the Victron kit. (so not a Chinese knock off)


I've just ordered four (to get free shipping)

and ill be testing them standalone and with my victron setups.



take a look.

Ruuvi - Ruuvi

Measure temperature, air humidity, air pressure and motion with Ruuvi Bluetooth sensors. The measurements can be read with a smartphone. Remote access and long history available using Ruuvi Gateway and cloud service.

ruuvi.com

....


see the vid . . .

.............

 

[catfood12]

@catfood12

FWIW

there is a new kid on the block,

premium product made in Finland and works with some of the Victron kit. (so not a Chinese knock off)


I've just ordered four (to get free shipping)

and ill be testing them standalone and with my victron setups.



take a look.

Ruuvi - Ruuvi

Measure temperature, air humidity, air pressure and motion with Ruuvi Bluetooth sensors. The measurements can be read with a smartphone. Remote access and long history available using Ruuvi Gateway and cloud service.

ruuvi.com

View attachment 144253

View attachment 144255

View attachment 144256



....


see the vid . . .

.............


View attachment 144258

I can see why you bought four ! One off, the postage is 32 Euro!

I'm trying to reduce costs, however the data logging, sensor and software technology we're getting for less than £25 is a bargain!!

 

[Dellmassive]

I can see why you bought four ! One off, the postage is 32 Euro!

I'm trying to reduce costs, however the data logging, sensor and software technology we're getting for less than £25 is a bargain!!

yes absolutely . . . it was Euro 102.90 for 4 with the free delivery.

which worked out £88 after conversion & fees according to Paypal. . . so £22 each delivered

ill fit two in these battery boxes as stand-alone, and ill fit two as part of a Victron install for testing.

 

[Skyliner33]

I can see why you bought four ! One off, the postage is 32 Euro!

I'm trying to reduce costs, however the data logging, sensor and software technology we're getting for less than £25 is a bargain!!

Maybe you should set up a group buy?

 

[n10n]

Ruuvi tags are nice little gadgets, good quality if not the cheapest. The openness of the design is very nice. That said, I have couple of those and they’re mostly just laying around unused.

Couple of years back I attempted to make a household energy monitor out of the Ruuvi by interfacing a photodiode to it and counting the blinks of the mains meter. I wrote custom Ruuvi firmware in Espruino to read additional gpio’s and used Raspberry Pi indoors to process the blink data received over BLE. Turned out to basically work fine but momentuous accuracy I desired was not there since you need to count blinks over such a long period of time to get a good reading. Maybe one of these days I should try to reprogram it to analyze blink frequency instead of counting the number of blinks over a time frame…

 

[Raul a/3]

As it happens, victron just released v 2,72 that supports ruuvi, and many other updates. It’s a major one out, been on beta for some time.

 

[Dellmassive]

Also Victron Venus OS v2.80

That's where I got the link to from.

Though they mentioned them in an last month's tech talk on YT.


.

Post in thread 'Victron (#TeamBlue) Advanced Systems + VRM - How We Done It -' Victron (#TeamBlue) Advanced Systems + VRM - How We Done It -

.

 

[Dellmassive]

Ruuvi tags are nice little gadgets, good quality if not the cheapest. The openness of the design is very nice. That said, I have couple of those and they’re mostly just laying around unused.

Couple of years back I attempted to make a household energy monitor out of the Ruuvi by interfacing a photodiode to it and counting the blinks of the mains meter. I wrote custom Ruuvi firmware in Espruino to read additional gpio’s and used Raspberry Pi indoors to process the blink data received over BLE. Turned out to basically work fine but momentuous accuracy I desired was not there since you need to count blinks over such a long period of time to get a good reading. Maybe one of these days I should try to reprogram it to analyze blink frequency instead of counting the number of blinks over a time frame…

View attachment 144354

View attachment 144355

View attachment 144356

That's mad !!! Well done you for giving it a go.

 

[Dellmassive]

@catfood12

FWIW

there is a new kid on the block,

premium product made in Finland and works with some of the Victron kit. (so not a Chinese knock off)


I've just ordered four (to get free shipping)

and ill be testing them standalone and with my victron setups.



take a look.

Ruuvi - Ruuvi

Measure temperature, air humidity, air pressure and motion with Ruuvi Bluetooth sensors. The measurements can be read with a smartphone. Remote access and long history available using Ruuvi Gateway and cloud service.

ruuvi.com

View attachment 144253

View attachment 144255

View attachment 144256



....


see the vid . . .

.............


View attachment 144258

@catfood12


...



The RUUVI tags are in ---> Victron (#TeamBlue) Advanced Systems + VRM - How We Done It -

 

[catfood12]

I bought a couple of the Brifits that you listed above. Very good little units - bargain for £11. It doesn't log for more than about a day when not connected to the app, and as you scroll along the timeline on the app, the temp scale changes, which is slightly annoying, but you can export the data as a CSV file, which works a treat.

 

[Mick]

Gotta say im feeling like a kid on Christmas Eve . . .

its Winter 2021/2022 and we have finally had some cold weather ( in SE UK / London )

Now its not the six inches of snow i wanted . . . . but its good enough.

The plan is to finally test these Sub-Zero Lithium's and to test what they do when its cold and to prove the manufactures claims.

the forecast is -3DegC over night and a good 0C for the whole morning.

the test begins the previous night,

View attachment 140932

both battery boxes are left outside . . . but after 3hrs they were still showing warm above 10deg C.


So i decided that the Tool box was insulating them from the cold.

so i opened the boxes . .


View attachment 140933



jumping out of bed the following day like a kid on Christmas morning i looked out the window to a frosty winters morning . .

just what id been waiting for . . . . for almost a whole year (sure i could empty out the kitchen freezer to do the test . . . but think id have to deal with the world war 3 aftermath).


This what i saw the following day . . .



View attachment 140934View attachment 140935View attachment 140936View attachment 140937View attachment 140938


the battery's were showing a solid 0degc - perfect.

View attachment 140944
View attachment 140939



the temp sensors i added to the boxes we having a metldown . . . they were showing -5 degc .

but the button battery cells were showing only 2% charge . . . . those little batteries dont like being cold - thats for sure.
View attachment 140940View attachment 140941





The spec on these and most lithium batterys its that they can be used ie - discharged down to -20 degC,

but

not charged below 5degc. below this point you need to maualy switch off the incoming charge to protect the batterys.

or

the newer Lithium batterys have a feature built into the BMS that will BLOCK incoming charge current, and keep blocking it unit the battery temp rises . . . to say 10degc - at which point the BMS will let the charge into the battery.

So the feature is not a hard switch on/off - its more of a one way street affair, allowing power out of the battery but blocking any incoming power.


++++


these Sub-Zero batteries are slightly different in the fact that they have internal heaters which will warm the battery at temps below 5degc to enable them to charge even at extemely cold temps.


lets see how they perform.

we have the Poweroad LINC INFI 100Ah - 12V 100AH POWEROAD INFINITY SUBZERO LOW TEMPERATURE LITHIUM LIFEPO4 BATTERY WITH BLUETOOTH MONITORING - Alpha Batteries

View attachment 140942


.



and the Renogy 100Ah w/self heat - 12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Self-Heating Function




View attachment 140943












.

Thought I’d do an update on my powerroad sub zero battery.

I’ve just spent a week in Austria. the battery compartment was down to -5c and the outside was -12 to -15. the battery SOC was at 80%.

I turned the engine over, the red light on the Powerroad started flashing and I got warning on the app that ‘low temperature protection’ had been activated. The BMS had stopped any charging. After about 4 minutes the light went out and it started charging. This happened twice on a couple of days.
The battery is fine, it worked as advertised, the internal heat mat worked and I’m quite pleased with it.

The van was also flawless at 80mph on cruise for most of the way averaging 33mpg..

 

[Dellmassive]

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --

Victron 2.41 FW update brings in live data feed on the status screen.... This is a great update from Victron. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Didn't try the Beta and waited for the full release to be available as been going away and didn't want to break the system!

www.t6forum.com