Help on charging my leisure battery from mains hook up?

[Brian1852]

Hi
When I installed my leisure battery I fitted a CTEK D250SE which works perfectly. But now I want to also install an electric hook up, I am okay with getting the mains power in to the van but am unsure how to set this up to keep my leisure battery topped up. My questions are these, is there a specific camper van version of a trickle charger? If so will this be okay connected to the battery while the CTEK is connected? Any advice or guidance would be much appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Dellmassive]

three options spring to mind:


1. a charger connected to the starter, . . which when topped up will activate the CTEK then in turn charge the LB. (One charger, both batteries option)(15A version rec`)

2. a charger connected to the LB directly - but runs the risk of getting a low starter battery (you might need a jump pack)(10-15A version rec`)

3. two chargers, one for starter, one for LB (Belts and braces option) (5A for starter - 5-15A for LB rec`)

(no there is no issues with them running with the ctek)

++++

the Victron IP65 BSC are very good and worth a look.

https://amzn.to/3HBSeaW

1.

 

[Dellmassive]

more on chargers:

Battery Chargers - How I Did It -

Battery Chargers - How I Did It - So its that time of year again, cold, rainy. . . . . . . flat battery =[ This time we look at Battery Chargers. Our vans will most likely come with a AGM style starter battery, for this type of battery we need a "Smart Charger" . . . . but what does this...

www.t6forum.com

more on monitoring:

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --

Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It -- Part #1 Battery monitoring is a very important part of your 12v system . . . . whether its just the vans starter battery or your leisure setup keeping an eye on the power in your battery bank will keep you from breaking down and make sure your weekends...

www.t6forum.com

more on jump starters:

Which Jump Starter?

Advice required. Hi guys - I thought it would be prudent to carry one of those small JumpStarter powerpacks about with me as I have an electric lift seat installed for my better half and am a little concerned that with the extra demands on the van battery I might get caught out one wintery...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

more on one charger for both batterys:

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

@Farnorthsurfer did you set the Dc-dc to lithium mode for the TN100 battery? Also have you got any more BM2 views showing more days? Yes the unit is set to Lithium profile. Easy enough to do when it was powered up. Yesterday was a flat line all day as it just sat on the drive. Back to work...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[TallPaul_S]

If you install a 240v 3 pin plug socket which activates on hookup, you can attach a small (5a) charger from that plug to a dash cigarette 12v socket to keep the starter battery topped up when you're staying on a campsite for a long time and not moving and so run the risk of getting a low SB from all the unlocking and locking and door opening etc.

Then just a have a normal 240v to consumer unit to charger for the LB (option 2 in dellmassive's post).

 

[Dellmassive]

If you install a 240v 3 pin plug socket which activates on hookup, you can attach a small (5a) charger from that plug to a dash cigarette 12v socket to keep the starter battery topped up when you're staying on a campsite for a long time and not moving and so run the risk of getting a low SB from all the unlocking and locking and door opening etc.

Then just a have a normal 240v to consumer unit to charger for the LB (option 2 in dellmassive's post).

good call . .

we show that method here:

(but use a PPP instead of EHU, same thing though - you need to be below 8A or the sockets gets very HOT and will melt -5A is perfect)

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

and a B2B charger a solar panel an MPPT some cable some heat shrink bus bars chrimper cable cutter stripper( we'll talk about that one later :rofl: ) mega or midi fuses..........it don't matter which type of van you have a combi a camper what ever.....there always gonna be a whole host of...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Brian1852]

three options spring to mind:


1. a charger connected to the starter, . . which when topped up will activate the CTEK then in turn charge the LB. (One charger, both batteries option)(15A version rec`)

2. a charger connected to the LB directly - but runs the risk of getting a low starter battery (you might need a jump pack)(10-15A version rec`)

3. two chargers, one for starter, one for LB (Belts and braces option) (5A for starter - 5-15A for LB rec`)

(no there is no issues with them running with the ctek)

++++

the Victron IP65 BSC are very good and worth a look.

https://amzn.to/3HBSeaW

View attachment 227734
1.

Thanks for your reply it's much appreciated.

Can I ask the option 3 you've suggested, would I only need a charger going to the starter battery if the van was sat on EHU for a long period? What I'm asking is, does the leisure battery drain power from the starter battery if the van isn't running as won't that mean the CTEK is on? Apologies of this is a stupid question.

 

[Brian1852]

Thanks for your reply it's much appreciated.

Can I ask the option 3 you've suggested, would I only need a charger going to the starter battery if the van was sat on EHU for a long period? What I'm asking is, does the leisure battery drain power from the starter battery if the van isn't running as won't that mean the CTEK is on? Apologies of this is a stupid question.

Sorry "I meant will that mean the CTEK isn't on"!!!

 

[roadtripper]

Welcome to the forum

Just to add if you are on EHU you don't really want a trickle charger as you will be using the battery and ideally your charger should mostly keep up with that consumption, but you don't really need a huge bulk charger either.

As I track a few things on Amazon the Victron 15A IP65 charger is currently at a reasonable price and is a good choice, either to use ad-hoc as needed or to fit more permanently.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Victron-Energy-Blue-Smart-Charger/dp/B081D14SSD/

 

[roadtripper]

The CTEK if correctly wired with an ignition signal will only be active while ignition on so will not be draining the starter while "stored"

AFAIK the CTEK doesn't have a voltage sensing capability as some chargers do.

Edited to add: See later post, looks like the CTEK is doing voltage sensing in both cases, the ignition signal just moves the voltage thresholds wider

However if you are storing the van for significant time (2 weeks or more) modern vehicle electronics never fully turn off so will be consuming some of the charge (even with no leisure electrics fitted) and keeping the starter battery topped up and healthy with a maintenance charger will give it the best lifetime.

 

[jimc91]

Another option which I use is to have two quick connector leads, one on the leisure battery and one on the starter battery, I can then move my victron charger (15A IP65), which is not permanently installed, between the two. You will need a mains socket near the leisure battery for when you are on hook up. If not using the van for a while I can move the charger under the bonnet, run an extension lead to it from my garage and keep the starter battery (and by default) the leisure battery topped up

 

[Brian1852]

Welcome to the forum

Just to add if you are on EHU you don't really want a trickle charger as you will be using the battery and ideally your charger should mostly keep up with that consumption, but you don't really need a huge bulk charger either.

As I track a few things on Amazon the Victron 15A IP65 charger is currently at a reasonable price and is a good choice, either to use ad-hoc as needed or to fit more permanently.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Victron-Energy-Blue-Smart-Charger/dp/B081D14SSD/

Thanks for the reply, so I can hard wire the Victron 15A IP65 charger straight from the consumer unit to the leisure battery and leave it on? Which will mean its only on when I'm hooked up to the mains?

 

[roadtripper]

Thanks for the reply, so I can hard wire the Victron 15A IP65 charger straight from the consumer unit to the leisure battery and leave it on? Which will mean its only on when I'm hooked up to the mains?

For safety you should wire it so that the mains side is supplied from one of the breakers (to protect from 240v faults) and you should fuse the 12v side (to protect from 12v faults) and an easy way to do that is to use a fused quick connect that @jimc91 suggested.

And yes it will only be active on EHU, otherwise it will have no power at it's input. As a well regarded maintenance charger there's no issue with having it on all the time on EHU, it will look after itself and the battery.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Thanks for the reply, so I can hard wire the Victron 15A IP65 charger straight from the consumer unit to the leisure battery and leave it on? Which will mean its only on when I'm hooked up to the mains?

Yeah that's the 'traditional' way of doing it, with fuses etc. That's how my van is set up. Only difference is I have a Victron IP22 15a.

And then your other output from the consumer unit will be to your plug socket(s).

I've then got an IP65 5a charger for topping up the SB via the 12v socket. It's handy as it means I only need to run the hookup cable from the garage. And I'll only need to use it when camping if I'm staying somewhere for days.

 

[Dellmassive]

Thanks for your reply it's much appreciated.

Can I ask the option 3 you've suggested, would I only need a charger going to the starter battery if the van was sat on EHU for a long period? What I'm asking is, does the leisure battery drain power from the starter battery if the van isn't running as won't that mean the CTEK is on? Apologies of this is a stupid question.

not a stupid question. .

a lot of people get caught out when camping - even when on EHU that charges the LB.

everyone always forgets about the starter battery - or just assumes that the EHU charger will charge the starter battery - its doesnt (with most standard installs using say a Sargent etc).


+++

because very time you lock/unlock then van,

open a door,

turn the radio on etc. .

the van powers up and uses power from the starter battery. . .

OEM roof lights are all from the starter battery,

front main lights come on when lock/unlock etc. . . starter battery

so all this over a weekend will end up running the starter battery flat.


++++



so a jump starter is must if you want to be self sufficient. . .

we take our NOCO to every camp session and 8 out of 10 times it will be used to help out a fellow camper with a flat starter battery.


++++

 

[roadtripper]

So I double checked the CTEK manual and it looks like it's using voltage sensing for conventional alternators and ignition signal for smart alternators - which type do you have @Brian1852

Edited to add: See later post, looks like the CTEK is doing voltage sensing in both cases, the ignition signal just moves the voltage thresholds wider

One thing I noted which I had missed in previous reads is it does have a starter trickle charge capability, so for storing if you have fitted the charger to EHU just leaving the van on EHU should keep both batteries topped up. If you have things like power doors that might not be enough to keep the starter fully charged while camping though.

 

[Brian1852]

not a stupid question. .

a lot of people get caught out when camping - even when on EHU that charges the LB.

everyone always forgets about the starter battery - or just assumes that the EHU charger will charge the starter battery - its doesnt (with most standard installs using say a Sargent etc).


+++

because very time you lock/unlock then van,

open a door,

turn the radio on etc. .

the van powers up and uses power from the starter battery. . .

OEM roof lights are all from the starter battery,

front main lights come on when lock/unlock etc. . . starter battery

so all this over a weekend will end up running the starter battery flat.


++++



so a jump starter is must if you want to be self sufficient. . .

we take our NOCO to every camp session and 8 out of 10 times it will be used to help out a fellow camper with a flat starter battery.


++++

Great advice thanks, I've just looked at the NOCO massive price range how much do I need to spend without overkill? Which model do you use?

Just out of interest, if after a weeks camping if, due to all the things you mentioned the SB is low, providing there's enough power to start the CTEK would that not then work the opposite way round and draw power from the LB to charge the SB? Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to avoid buying a NOCO I'd just like to try and understand the equipment a little better.

So I double checked the CTEK manual and it looks like it's using voltage sensing for conventional alternators and ignition signal for smart alternators - which type do you have @Brian1852

One thing I noted which I had missed in previous reads is it does have a starter trickle charge capability, so for storing if you have fitted the charger to EHU just leaving the van on EHU should keep both batteries topped up. If you have things like power doors that might not be enough to keep the starter fully charged while camping though.

View attachment 227739

Wow that's good new, I have the 2018 which has the smart alternator, I think that must have been why I was advised to go the CTEK route.

Thanks

 

[MK2Golf24v]

The CTEK does voltage sense, i keep both my batteries topped up when parked via the tow electric hook up - it charges the starter, and when the starter has enough voltage the CTEK senses and also charges the leisure battery.

Just hook a charger up to the starter battery and you're done.

Starter battery trickle charge is only if solar hooked up.

 

[roadtripper]

The CTEK does voltage sense, i keep both my batteries topped up when parked via the tow electric hook up - it charges the starter, and when the starter has enough voltage the CTEK senses and also charges the leisure battery.

Just hook a charger up to the starter battery and you're done.

Starter battery trickle charge is only if solar hooked up.

Useful knowledge - that's really not clear from the manual descriptions of the two modes. I do really like the CTEK kit, but the manuals can be frustratingly brief and unclear at times.

The description of the function, along with the need to connect a cable to ignition sense for smart alternators, suggests one behaviour



The details of the voltage cut ins buried at the end suggest very different behaviours



That would seem to suggest it's not really an ignition interlock as other chargers use, more an option switch like the battery select cable.

So even with the ignition sense connected with ignition off the CTEK will respond using the conventional alternator cut in voltage.

I've also never noted the significance of the "Start assistance activation" line before - which while useful as a manual option I'd worry a bit about as an automatic option as if the van is stored and a failing starter battery drops that will cut in... Quite what that behaviour is doesn't seem to be listed anywhere in the manual...