[Guide] Clayton LPS II 2500 - 1kWh (leisure battery + Inverter) -- How I Done It --

[roadtripper]

There is only a single inverter in the Clayton regardless of if you are using the 3 pin socket on the front or other sockets wired to the 240v out.

Treat it as a single 13 pin plug - you wouldn't plug a hob and a kettle into a 4 plug strip and into the wall so don't expect that to work on a Clayton (and frankly the same is true of any EHU setup as they are all limited to a max of 16A by the connectors)

Every 240v appliance will have a rating plate on it listing the average draw in watts. Add those up and compare them to that rated output of the inverter. Keep to about 80% of total capacity as individual appliances vary. So if you have a 2000w / 2kw inverter don't use more than 1600w.

Be aware that any 240v appliance that has a motor or a resistive (glowing) heating element will draw quite a bit more when it switches on. Those types of devices you should probably only use one at a time if you are running off the inverter. So things like a microwave, coffee machine, hair dryer, oil radiator.

For runtime calculations then we need to account for about 80% efficiency in the inverter and the fact that the Clayton will cut off at 20% of charge to protect the battery. So for a 100aH battery you will have 80aH (100 x 0.8) of usable capacity for both the 12v and 240v systems. If you use that mostly for 240v then you will have 64aH (80 x 0.8) of usable capacity.

Then for each 100w of load you will use around 8aH (100w / 12v) of capacity per hour. For example a 2kw kettle would use ( 2000 / 100 ) x 8 = 160aH if left on for an hour; however if we assume 5 minutes than boiling a kettle will use (160 / 60) x 5 = 13.5aH

If you're now thinking "but that means I can only boil the kettle around 4 times before the battery is empty" - you're right. 240v heating appliances consume an enormous amount of power, you just don't notice it until you have to generate that power yourself.

A Clayton with a 2500w inverter and a 100aH battery has about 20 minutes of run time at full power on 240v. It will then take about 2 hours to recharge off engine, probably around 1.5 hours off EHU.

 

[30 Year Dream]

Thanks Al

Will be experimenting in sunny Ireland next week! First trip. Super excited!

Keith

 

[roadtripper]

Thanks Al

Will be experimenting in sunny Ireland next week! First trip. Super excited!

Keith

Enjoy! Take lots of pics and update us when you get back

 

[Jet]

I need to ask what is potentially a daft question, I have an LPS II 3000 just plonked in the back of the van, it's connected to 180 watt solar panel, the battery is 98%. What happens to the excess production from the panel, heat perhaps. I'm wondering if I should plug something in to protect the battery/panel?

 

[d8smt]

Hi, really interesting write up on the LPS, very useful, thanks.
I have a question about how I go with mine. I'm mulling whether it's better to expand what's already there or rip it out and start afresh. Would appreciate thoughts.

So I have the LPS 1 100Ah. After some niggling issues, I did a reset on it and it's now working as it should. I've just run it in a 1500 Mile trip round Europe, so have got to get with how it works and is set up now.
It has a 240v EHU correctly configured to both bypass (with separating fuse/RCD, conveniently placed beneath the sink) and charge the LPS, as well as 12v charging from the alternator. The EHU split allows electric cooking directly from the EHU feed to a 240v socket.
I'm only really running the Domestic CRX50 fridge from the 12v, but there are 12v LCD lights in the van as well as a 12v phone charger/USB and a water pump. Plus there is some device somewhere, yet to be located, that also occasionally draws minimal current. There's also the LPS remote.
If I need to cook, I'll use the 240v EHU for induction or microwave, or good old fashioned gas outside the van.

So the issue I have is that the 100Ah is inadequate to run the fridge more than about 18 hour, which sorry of makes sense since the available post from the LPS is only really around 80Ah. Also, the LPS can be configured to either time out after 10h if you want to leave the fridge running when your switch the ignition off, or your can run the LPS indefinitely until it drains but you then have to go into the back of the van and switch the 12v on each time you switch the engine off. Ideally I want both these options combined!

I'm planning off grid use for 3-4 days at a time. So I will need to add solar (which I think if possible if you route it through an mppt to the DC terminals of the LPS?) and ideally another LiFeO4 battery of ~ 250Ah into the mix.

So 2 questions (having already read the excellent advice and treating on the thread above):

1. - how best to add in the additional battery and solar based on experience ? Do you have the alternator and solar panel charge the additional lithium battery directly, then feed this into the LPS to drip feed the LPS? Or do you 'spilt charge' the 12v from the alternator to the LPS and the additional lithium battery, then use the additional battery to charge (top) up the LPS as the LPS is draining? With solar directly to the LPS?

2. Or, as I'm currently thinking, just replace the whole damn thing with a new inverter/charger/MPPT/RCD box and higher capacity battery since the wiring is already in there and sell the LPS on, since it's actually a decent unit for everyday needs?

Would appreciate thoughts given all the expertise you already have done on the skunk works programs on the LPS!

Cheers
Dave

 

[CAB]

I need to ask what is potentially a daft question, I have an LPS II 3000 just plonked in the back of the van, it's connected to 180 watt solar panel, the battery is 98%. What happens to the excess production from the panel, heat perhaps. I'm wondering if I should plug something in to protect the battery/panel?

Not a daft question.

It doesn't go anywhere.

Just like a Solar panel that is not connected, the cells are ready to provide a current, but if there is nothing taking that current, if just sits there, ready. Doesn't cause any damage to the panel or the cells.

 

[frizzuti]

Trying to figure out which way to go for all things electrical in my van. Either, traditional Victron separates or the Clayton all-in-one LPS 2.

I think, apart from the differences in electrical performance, my biggest thing to overcome is where these two systems would be physically located in the van especially considering my specific set-up…

I have a LWB, twin-slider with a full-width 150cm MOBIFRAME seat/bed system on a full-length rail in the floor. I also have a double passenger seat but on a sliding/swivel base - so I think precludes it from having any electrics in the seat base. Then I have a swivel captains drivers seat.

I have already purchased the Fogstar 230Ah seat base battery and most of the electrical wiring is already installed, less any of the components needed that they connect into.

My key requirements for my electrical system are:

1. EHU for use on campsites
2. B2B charging from alternator
3. Enough power capacity to run my various loads for about 2-3 days off-grid. Hence the 230Ah leisure battery.

Even if I go the traditional route, Victron components, I’m still not entirely sure where I can place them all. I have no cabinets whatsoever and don’t really want any. The van has two key use cases, a day van for biking events and family (of 4) trips away for wk ends.

Any help or top tips are welcome.

 

[T6 Syd]

Probably too late given that you have the Fogstar already.

I went down the route of the Bluetti Elite V2, an (almost) all-in-one. It has a capacity of about 170Ah compared with the 230Ah you have now, so it would need more regular charging. I have coupled it with their alternator charger for a more rapid charge whilst driving, and it can be charged directly from the EHU.

The 12v output on the Bluetti is, unlike some other models of theirs (and other manufacturers) limited to 10A, not really sufficient for my diesel heater, fridge and lights, so I also have a Victron charger, that I run off the Bluetti AC output, in power supply mode giving me up to 30A 12v dc. you may or may not need that.

The dc fuses and wiring for my heater, fridge and lights were already under the driver's seat, so that is where my 12v output, Victron power unit and alternator charger are now fitted.

The Bluetti, being somewhat sizeable but quite neat for the power, fits under the side of the 150cm Mobiframe bed/seat. Despite the dimensions suggesting that it should just fit, it turned out that it fouled some bolt heads under the seat. Changing those bolts for low profile flat headed bolts and reducing the height of the felt foot pads on the Bluetti allows the seat to slide over the Bluetti. The bolts are on the seat squab runners, they are not part of any load bearing/restraining fittings and do not impact on the safety of the seat.

The Bluetti has the capacity to run resistive loads up to 3900w, which means you can use more appliances at the same time such as two induction hobs etc., and more than you can pull through a typical EHU connection. When on EHU you can use them separately, giving you even more capacity. Note that it does this by throttling down the power so that the combined power usage remains limited by the true 2600w AC output. It does work though.

Currently, I do not keep the Bluetti in the van all the time - when in use as my daily vehicle I don't need it.

In your situation, if you fill the seat base with the Fogstar, you could build an @Dellmassive massive style box with the Victron components in that you connect up as and when needed, wherever you have a space in the van.

 

[Dellmassive]

I sold the LPS 2.

As it didn't fit in any of my cabinetry once I had the van converted.

Most people will fit them underneath the rear bed.

I went for a more traditional victron set up with Roamer battery power.

 

[frizzuti]

Probably too late given that you have the Fogstar already.

I went down the route of the Bluetti Elite V2, an (almost) all-in-one. It has a capacity of about 170Ah compared with the 230Ah you have now, so it would need more regular charging. I have coupled it with their alternator charger for a more rapid charge whilst driving, and it can be charged directly from the EHU.

The 12v output on the Bluetti is, unlike some other models of theirs (and other manufacturers) limited to 10A, not really sufficient for my diesel heater, fridge and lights, so I also have a Victron charger, that I run off the Bluetti AC output, in power supply mode giving me up to 30A 12v dc. you may or may not need that.

The dc fuses and wiring for my heater, fridge and lights were already under the driver's seat, so that is where my 12v output, Victron power unit and alternator charger are now fitted.

The Bluetti, being somewhat sizeable but quite neat for the power, fits under the side of the 150cm Mobiframe bed/seat. Despite the dimensions suggesting that it should just fit, it turned out that it fouled some bolt heads under the seat. Changing those bolts for low profile flat headed bolts and reducing the height of the felt foot pads on the Bluetti allows the seat to slide over the Bluetti. The bolts are on the seat squab runners, they are not part of any load bearing/restraining fittings and do not impact on the safety of the seat.

The Bluetti has the capacity to run resistive loads up to 3900w, which means you can use more appliances at the same time such as two induction hobs etc., and more than you can pull through a typical EHU connection. When on EHU you can use them separately, giving you even more capacity. Note that it does this by throttling down the power so that the combined power usage remains limited by the true 2600w AC output. It does work though.

Currently, I do not keep the Bluetti in the van all the time - when in use as my daily vehicle I don't need it.

In your situation, if you fill the seat base with the Fogstar, you could build an @Dellmassive massive style box with the Victron components in that you connect up as and when needed, wherever you have a space in the van.

Thanks for this - yet more to deliberate over. I’d prefer to have whatever components permanently fitted for reduced hassle and think the individual sizes of a traditional set-up would work out smaller and easier to install. But, all current set-ups I’ve seen is Victron components neatly laid out on a wooden board. I don’t have space for that, or at least I don’t think I do. I need to figure out what components I can fit under the drivers seat alongside the fogstar 230Ah battery and then whatever is remaining try and see if I can fit them in the recess behind the rear quarter panel close to the rear tailgate where the EHU point comes in - EHU socket behind a stealth flap.

So that would be: under seat base - fogstar battery, 1 or 2 x Victron Orion XS B2B chargers, 12v fuse board and Victron lynx mega fuse.

Then in the rear quarter recess: the consumer units, 230V 3-pin sockets, and the Victron multi plus inverter/charger.

Not sure if there will be any issues with the cable lengths between the battery under seat and the AC/DC multiplus inverter towards the rear of the van - estimating around 5m away as I have to feed cables up the B pillar to the roof, all the way along to the D pillar due to pop-top metal frame then down the D pillar to the rear quarter.

In the process of making a schematic to help show more clearly.

 

[denz1968]

I have LPS II in my cabinets, mounted just above wheel arch. Works a treat and I have narrower than normal cabinets as I have 1200 Glidemotion bed fitted. Can send pics if you want to see

 

[frizzuti]

I have LPS II in my cabinets, mounted just above wheel arch. Works a treat and I have narrower than normal cabinets as I have 1200 Glidemotion bed fitted. Can send pics if you want to see

Unfortunately don’t think it’ll help as I have 150cm full-width seat/bed that needs room to slide on rails front to back.

Turns out having maximum flexibility, twin-sliders, in practice reduces your flexibility in permanent fixtures.

 

[T6 Syd]

Yes, swings and roundabouts with the full width fully sliding rear seat/bed

In my set-up, I can fix the Bluetti power station against the driver's side wall just in front of the wheel arch (SWB). All I need then is a lead run to a permanent connector in the rear plate of the driver seat base. In my case that is a 240v AC cable with the monitor-type 3 pin connector which is also the same as the mains connection on the Bluetti so the cable doubles up as a mains lead to charge the Bluetti (with the plug in the EHU rather than the Bluetti for charging it of course), or I can connect my fixed electrics directly to the EHU and use the Bluetti separately in/outside the tent, eg for cooking. My EHU consumer unit is not fixed in the van, it is an in-line unit in a weather sealed box that sits outside just before the van's EHU connector when in use. Still need to find room for it in the van when packing/travelling, but it didn't need a home in/behind any panels. I did think of putting it in the space behind the wheel arch but decided it could go outside.

The Fogstar 230 looks fairly big, so I'm not sure how much space you will have left under the seat. I don't know the output of your inverter, but you will likely need chunky cables to the back of the van. That's a long way to take high current, especially if you intend taking advantage of the 250A max output of the Fogstar!

I know you want a 'fixed' installation, but an option could be to fix some of the kit under the passenger seat. If the wiring to that kit is taken from under the driver's seat all you need to do is use cables/flying leads that can be disconnected when moving the passenger seat and then re-connected again when in place. It is only likely to be one or two cables, for example the feed to the inverter, with the socket outlet in the seat base. May not be the prettiest installation