Lowering And Wheel Alignment Issues?

[Stay Frosty]

I know I shouldn't ask as ignorance is bliss but after reading a few threads and with barely a month to go until dropping my camper by 50mm and fitting 18" wheels I'm wondering if that will be the last time the wheels all point in the same direction?
The van is a T6 T28 and sits miles in the air on 16" Claytons at the moment, I'm hoping that the 18s with 255 45s and some H&R springs with a 50mm drop won't be untameable regarding wheel realignment as the way the standard van is currently it drives like a wayward bouncy castle and definitely needs anchoring closer to the road surface but will I end up scrubbing out the "Ditch Finder 2000s" tm. that come with the wheel package before I can get the wheels realigned if that's even possible?
I'm thinking that just about every other Transporter I see on the road locally has 20" wheels and has to have been lowered by a similar amount as they don't look like off roaders or Donks so please rally around and calm me down... in other news I really am getting just a little too excited about making the van look meaner for someone who now gets free prescriptions.

 

[gal2009]

I recently dropped mine with bilstein b14s. Just had the wheels laser re-alligned no problems. My set up is 18s 255 45s also and i have roughly a 50 mm drop. The machine they hooked it up to goes for a automatic setting but they can over ride this and set up to what common sense dictates as you are effectively changing the factory set up. The final setting was well within acceptable parameters as they give you before and after printouts of wheel alignment.

 

[gal2009]

This was posted by @Dellmassive. I read up on this thread before re-alligning

Lowering & 4-wheel Laser Alignment - How I Done It -

 

[Stay Frosty]

Thanks for the encouraging info, just been out and got some detailing spray at the local Helfrauds, what with the great weather currently I can forgive the van for being so tall and gawky as it was lovely just bimbling along in the Friday afternoon traffic for a change... paint glistening in the sun and new LED DRL bulbs causing mayhem, smashing... just realised it's half term, that's why the roads were clear.
One last question and did you get the laser surgery performed locally by one of the national chains or was it a specialist garage? Cheers, Dave.

 

[gal2009]

Yes, i got mine from a local garage that are affiliated to HiQ. They are a national franchise.

 

[Insert Coin]

I had issues with bad tyre wear after my van was dropped on B14’s, I had it Hunter aligned twice in two different places, both telling me the tracking was miles out.

When I had new wheels put on the van the guys @BognorMotors aligned the bus again and since then (circa 2000 miles) my tyre wear is spot on, I had a service done this week and all 4 tyres are showing 8-8-7 outside to inside wear, brilliant job.

 

[Tourershine]

I had issues with bad tyre wear after my van was dropped on B14’s, I had it Hunter aligned twice in two different places, both telling me the tracking was miles out.

When I had new wheels put on the van the guys @BognorMotors aligned the bus again and since then (circa 2000 miles) my tyre wear is spot on, I had a service done this week and all 4 tyres are showing 8-8-7 outside to inside wear, brilliant job.

How are you getting on with your tyres now? I'm having big issues with rear tyres on my B14s, and it's getting beyond a joke now.

First picture is a rear Eagle F1 at 4000 miles.



Second picture is a cheap Nexen SU1 I fitted after refusing to replace the F1's with expensive tyres.
This has only managed 6000 miles



I've tried loads of different pressures, but each time it takes out the outside edge regardless of pressure. Myself and @T6180 are booked in for a full Hunter alignment in a couple of weeks, and I was going to fit adjustable poly-bushes, but i'm struggling to understand why it's always the outside edge, when the camber on the rear is the other way around, meaning theoretically it should be the inside edge that wears out first.

The miles I cover means i'm buying tyres almost every 8weeks, and that's just nuts, and a total waste of money. Plus after my amazing winters, the cheaper tyres are garbage as summers, and I want to get some quality rubber, but not until this issue is resolved.

 

[T6180]

How are you getting on with your tyres now? I'm having big issues with rear tyres on my B14s, and it's getting beyond a joke now.

First picture is a rear Eagle F1 at 4000 miles.

View attachment 42630

Second picture is a cheap Nexen SU1 I fitted after refusing to replace the F1's with expensive tyres.
This has only managed 6000 miles

View attachment 42631

I've tried loads of different pressures, but each time it takes out the outside edge regardless of pressure. Myself and @T6180 are booked in for a full Hunter alignment in a couple of weeks, and I was going to fit adjustable poly-bushes, but i'm struggling to understand why it's always the outside edge, when the camber on the rear is the other way around, meaning theoretically it should be the inside edge that wears out first.

The miles I cover means i'm buying tyres almost every 8weeks, and that's just nuts, and a total waste of money. Plus after my amazing winters, the cheaper tyres are garbage as summers, and I want to get some quality rubber, but not until this issue is resolved.

is it the same wear pattern each side on the rear?

 

[teamfly]

I debated getting alignment done when dropping mine 50mm on h&r springs.
Didn't do it in the end but all four tyres wearing evenly 10k later. 255/45/18 on a lwb.

 

[Tourershine]

is it the same wear pattern each side on the rear?

Yes mate, although the other side is a slightly newer tyre after the tyre shop got confused with one of my requests

 

[highwaycollective]

How are you getting on with your tyres now? I'm having big issues with rear tyres on my B14s, and it's getting beyond a joke now.

First picture is a rear Eagle F1 at 4000 miles.

View attachment 42630

Second picture is a cheap Nexen SU1 I fitted after refusing to replace the F1's with expensive tyres.
This has only managed 6000 miles

View attachment 42631

I've tried loads of different pressures, but each time it takes out the outside edge regardless of pressure. Myself and @T6180 are booked in for a full Hunter alignment in a couple of weeks, and I was going to fit adjustable poly-bushes, but i'm struggling to understand why it's always the outside edge, when the camber on the rear is the other way around, meaning theoretically it should be the inside edge that wears out first.

The miles I cover means i'm buying tyres almost every 8weeks, and that's just nuts, and a total waste of money. Plus after my amazing winters, the cheaper tyres are garbage as summers, and I want to get some quality rubber, but not until this issue is resolved.

At the risk of telling you what you already know, here are a few things to keep in mind when you are as low as you are.

firstly, tyre wear is largely down to toe not camber. When you lower a T6 it toes in massively. Any alignment place, no matter how good their equipment, needs to do an over ride to get the toe correct on a lowered T6. Many of the newer laser systems are automatic, and the operators use "load" settings to chose setup on their system. This is the wrong way to do it so watch out when you take your van in. They will chose "half load" for a medium drop, or "full load" for a drop like yours. The problem is that when they do this the system assumes that the van will have its load removed at some point, and compensates by toeing in the rear wheels based on the load setting. Whatever you do, make sure that when they do the alignment, they set the load to "unladen" or "no load" no matter what ride height you are at. That will get the wheels pointing forwards.

Secondly, camber can't be adjusted without using bushings. As most tyre wear comes from incorrect toe bushings that correct the camber are less essential. However, if you the budget and are getting the alignment done anyway its probably a good move.

 

[highwaycollective]

i'm struggling to understand why it's always the outside edge, when the camber on the rear is the other way around, meaning theoretically it should be the inside edge that wears out first.

I also forgot to mention in my previous post... Your tyres are wearing on the outside because your wheels are toed in too much, meaning the outside edge is facing forwards. This drag on the tyre is what is causing the wear on the outside. Get the toe corrected with the system set to the van being "unladen" as explained above and it will correct this.

 

[Tourershine]

I also forgot to mention in my previous post... Your tyres are wearing on the outside because your wheels are toed in too much, meaning the outside edge is facing forwards. This drag on the tyre is what is causing the wear on the outside. Get the toe corrected with the system set to the van being "unladen" as explained above and it will correct this.

Thanks. That all makes perfect sense. I will update once we've been to have everything checked and adjusted.

 

[Insert Coin]

How are you getting on with your tyres now? I'm having big issues with rear tyres on my B14s, and it's getting beyond a joke now.

First picture is a rear Eagle F1 at 4000 miles.

View attachment 42630

Second picture is a cheap Nexen SU1 I fitted after refusing to replace the F1's with expensive tyres.
This has only managed 6000 miles

View attachment 42631

I've tried loads of different pressures, but each time it takes out the outside edge regardless of pressure. Myself and @T6180 are booked in for a full Hunter alignment in a couple of weeks, and I was going to fit adjustable poly-bushes, but i'm struggling to understand why it's always the outside edge, when the camber on the rear is the other way around, meaning theoretically it should be the inside edge that wears out first.

The miles I cover means i'm buying tyres almost every 8weeks, and that's just nuts, and a total waste of money. Plus after my amazing winters, the cheaper tyres are garbage as summers, and I want to get some quality rubber, but not until this issue is resolved.

When my bus went in for a service about 6 weeks ago the tyre wear was recorded as 8.5mm across all 4 tyres.

@BognorMotors clearly know what they are doing in relation to alignment on these vans

 

[Skyliner33]

This thread is making me hold off on lowering the van. Alignment seems to be complicated and on whether or not the operator knows about all the settings for a T6. Problem is I wouldn't be able to tell if he knew or not.

Maybe @Tourershine when you find out you a thread could be put up with all the necessary settings and info needed?

 

[Tourershine]

This thread is making me hold off on lowering the van. Alignment seems to be complicated and on whether or not the operator knows about all the settings for a T6. Problem is I wouldn't be able to tell if he knew or not.

Maybe @Tourershine when you find out you a thread could be put up with all the necessary settings and info needed?

I'm not sure there ever will be a generic setting? It might be down to how low you are, what you carry, the engineer at the time etc.

@highlander has been through all this, and @T6180 mentioned yesterday it might be because to the tow issue. I suspect we can fix this, but worst case it cannot be done properly, and i'm advised to raise mine back up, then it's a new direction for me, and everything will be removed.

 

[Skyliner33]

I'm not sure there ever will be a generic setting? It might be down to how low you are, what you carry, the engineer at the time etc.

@highlander has been through all this, and @T6180 mentioned yesterday it might be because to the tow issue. I suspect we can fix this, but worst case it cannot be done properly, and i'm advised to raise mine back up, then it's a new direction for me, and everything will be removed.

Thanks. Yes, I was right it is complicated. I sort of was inplying for the settings on the Hunter machine as I remember from somewhere there are different ones.

Do I detect the faint planning of swamper?

 

[Tourershine]

Do I detect the faint planning of swamper?

As you know, it's a look that I've been trying to find an excuse to do, but I will see if this next route fixes the tyre issue.

 

[highwaycollective]

To all of those struggling with alignment issues hopefully this helps. These two print outs are from when I first lowered my van and had the alignment done on the automatic setting, and then when I took it back and asked them to override the system and do the alignment on the "no load" setting.

You can see that when I lowered the van the toe in at the rear was a huge 0'56. The automatic alignment setting reduced this to 0'32 which was an improvement, however, you will also see it is still a lot more than the front which was at 0'12.

After taking it back and getting it done again with "no load", you can see the rear toe in comes down to 0'18 which is significantly closer to the front 0'12. The 0'18 is also well within standard spec so tyre wear is well within what you would normally expect. Explaining all of this to a tyre fitter can be a bit of a job, as they are ultimately the professionals, so hopefully the below pics help.

 

[Skyliner33]

Can I ask what this means (after 'no load):
with 1BA, 1BL, 2MF suspension : A8B (Basic) / A9K (Shuttle).

Thanks