Yep I am pretty stunned by the efficiency of the synchronised 3 elements. Once again today little sun but the solar wattage was maximised again and I see from that update the charger takes control of the PV solar and optimises it.
Low temperature lithium battery
- Thread starter DEH
- Start date
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- lithium battery
Sell it mate get a new one. Gotta be worth it for the way you use it. £120 sell yours for £70 job done
New Battery Box with the 100ah Poweroad PRLC-100
www.t6forum.com
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12v Lithium Leisure Battery Box 138Ah 1766Wh -- How I Done It --
@Dellmassive Got my panels connected to the Ctek with the BM2 monitor on the leisure battery. Is there a simple cheap monitor I can put inline on the solar panels to see what they are actually outputting ?
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@DEH and @Mick
++++
I've been testing the PRLC-100 battery and was wondering about @DEH comments above "overcell voltage warnings" from the battery?
in nearly all of my testing the warning was triggered at the top 95-100% mark.
this was using a variety of chargers, but mainly the Victron units. . . that have a 14.2v charge in the Lifepo4 profile.
The PRLC-100 spec sheet states that 14.4v should be used (so 14.2v is perfectly fine.
testing wise, i have been using:
Portable scope in voltage logger mode,
Bm2 voltage monitor
Poweroad APP on a tablet
Victron APP on a tablet (both SMart shunt & MPPT & Charger
you can see the warning here:
we know from previous testing that the battery cuts out at 10v and has a top cut off as well.
what was no so certain (compared to other batteries) was why the warning was coming up as if it was an issue?
++++
here you can see cell#1 at 3.69v with the battery still charging @ 3.15A . .
then the warning pops up and the charge current drops to 0.0A . . .
the warning flag is set . .
but the battery voltage stays on and fine. . . . still able to delivery power to any loads . . .
so the testing shows that the battery BMS is just working normally and cutting OFF the incoming charge current, while still allowing the outgoing LOAD current. . . . which is normal.
SO . . . .
why bother with the battery warning . . if this is just normal BMS operation?
It looks to me that the system is working as designed . . . but i think that the warning can confuse matters for the end user.
i think the warning should NOT pop up during normal operation . . . but only when there is a problem outside the spec.
it looks like the APP programmers are giving us all the information . . which is nice. but maybe just do that bit in the background.
for example i dont need to know that the BMS is cutting off the charge current every day when the battery is FULL - thats just normal . . . not a fault that needs a warning.
+++
i wanted clarification . . so i reached out to Poweroad again . . .
+++
Geek Eye-Candy
....
++++
I've been testing the PRLC-100 battery and was wondering about @DEH comments above "overcell voltage warnings" from the battery?
in nearly all of my testing the warning was triggered at the top 95-100% mark.
this was using a variety of chargers, but mainly the Victron units. . . that have a 14.2v charge in the Lifepo4 profile.
The PRLC-100 spec sheet states that 14.4v should be used (so 14.2v is perfectly fine.
testing wise, i have been using:
Portable scope in voltage logger mode,
Bm2 voltage monitor
Poweroad APP on a tablet
Victron APP on a tablet (both SMart shunt & MPPT & Charger
you can see the warning here:
we know from previous testing that the battery cuts out at 10v and has a top cut off as well.
what was no so certain (compared to other batteries) was why the warning was coming up as if it was an issue?
++++
here you can see cell#1 at 3.69v with the battery still charging @ 3.15A . .
then the warning pops up and the charge current drops to 0.0A . . .
the warning flag is set . .
but the battery voltage stays on and fine. . . . still able to delivery power to any loads . . .
so the testing shows that the battery BMS is just working normally and cutting OFF the incoming charge current, while still allowing the outgoing LOAD current. . . . which is normal.
SO . . . .
why bother with the battery warning . . if this is just normal BMS operation?
It looks to me that the system is working as designed . . . but i think that the warning can confuse matters for the end user.
i think the warning should NOT pop up during normal operation . . . but only when there is a problem outside the spec.
it looks like the APP programmers are giving us all the information . . which is nice. but maybe just do that bit in the background.
for example i dont need to know that the BMS is cutting off the charge current every day when the battery is FULL - thats just normal . . . not a fault that needs a warning.
+++
i wanted clarification . . so i reached out to Poweroad again . . .
+++
Geek Eye-Candy
....
I am surprised to see such a wide variation in cell voltages. The Valance LiFePo4 battery, for example, rebalances when a cell is above 3.36V and >40mV above the lowest cell.
Would be interesting to know what the rebalancing criteria and algorithm are for this battery.
Poweroad have replied. . . .
+++++
Hi Dellmassive,
Good morning. This is *** from Poweroad.
Question-the Alam warning comes on during the charging process or at fully charged?
Charging setting: both 14.2V and 14.4V are okay. Pls setting to 14.2V to see if the cell over voltage protection will be actived or not.
Note: when the charging voltage is 14.2V, the capacity can up to 100Ah as well. Usually the initial capacity of Infinity can be around 110Ah.
Cells- We are using LFP pouch cells, the cells operating voltage is 2.50 to 3.65V. When the voltage of any cells up to 3700mV+/-20mV, the over-voltage protection willl be actived. and released at 3450mV+/-20mV.
It might be that the voltage of one cell up to 3.7V, BMS will be actived automatically and cut off charging to protect the battery from deep charging. Could you pls share us screenshorts on App when battery enter cells-voltage protection again. Thanks.
It will allowed outgoing load current when you connect the load to discharging. It will not affect the battery use.
Pls check the attached technical document, and feel free to contact me if any questions you have.
Kindest regards,
***
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
++++
so they have confirmed on how the BMS works . . and have given us the documents --- Finally we now know what the BMS is fdoing
Thank you *** !!!
this is what the document shows.
cell over voltage:
3700mV+- 20mV
to that means that if any cell voltage rises above 3.68/3.72v the BMS cuts the charge current.
it will hold that state untill the cells drop to:
3.47/3.43v at which point the BMS releases the charge hold and the battery will resume charging.
...
so its just normal operation of the BMS . . .
i think they need to update the FW and app to remove the warning as the end user doesnt need to know that - its not a fault.
++++
we also now have the full BMS manual . . . OOOSH !!
+++++
Hi Dellmassive,
Good morning. This is *** from Poweroad.
Question-the Alam warning comes on during the charging process or at fully charged?
Charging setting: both 14.2V and 14.4V are okay. Pls setting to 14.2V to see if the cell over voltage protection will be actived or not.
Note: when the charging voltage is 14.2V, the capacity can up to 100Ah as well. Usually the initial capacity of Infinity can be around 110Ah.
Cells- We are using LFP pouch cells, the cells operating voltage is 2.50 to 3.65V. When the voltage of any cells up to 3700mV+/-20mV, the over-voltage protection willl be actived. and released at 3450mV+/-20mV.
It might be that the voltage of one cell up to 3.7V, BMS will be actived automatically and cut off charging to protect the battery from deep charging. Could you pls share us screenshorts on App when battery enter cells-voltage protection again. Thanks.
It will allowed outgoing load current when you connect the load to discharging. It will not affect the battery use.
Pls check the attached technical document, and feel free to contact me if any questions you have.
Kindest regards,
***
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
++++
so they have confirmed on how the BMS works . . and have given us the documents --- Finally we now know what the BMS is fdoing
Thank you *** !!!
this is what the document shows.
cell over voltage:
3700mV+- 20mV
to that means that if any cell voltage rises above 3.68/3.72v the BMS cuts the charge current.
it will hold that state untill the cells drop to:
3.47/3.43v at which point the BMS releases the charge hold and the battery will resume charging.
...
so its just normal operation of the BMS . . .
i think they need to update the FW and app to remove the warning as the end user doesnt need to know that - its not a fault.
++++
we also now have the full BMS manual . . . OOOSH !!
@Dilbert
we don't know the exact criteria . .
but the supplied technical document they provided gives us some insight . . .
it shows that the BMS will start top balancing when any cell reaches 3400mV +- 50mV (4x cells per battery) (4Sx*P?)
and that the turn on differential is 50mV
++++
i can only assume that as these batteries use LFP Pouch Cells that they have a slightly different absorption rates to standard 18650 cells?
maybe they can absorb faster/slower than each other creating a slightly larger cell mV gap?
+++
this guy shows on appart:
Good news getting a manual. Which has now set me thinking.
So my charged voltage at 13.5v in the BMV is correct and in line with the factory voltage spec with an Absorb of 14.2 in the MPPT. So all good.
The smart charger is at 14.2v I can up it to 14.4v but it all seems to be working fine.
Interesting. The manual does show 13.2v-13.6v as the factory voltage with 12.8v being nominal. With the absorption charge voltage at 14.4v.
Well have a play at the weekend.
Poweroad tech have come back to us with some additional info. (we have been sharing our testing data with them)
+++
Hi Dellmassive,
Thanks for sharing the further data and opinions.
We have hold several meetings with engineer to discuss this. Yes, we will upgrade the program to resolve it. The new program will be finished about Friday, then do more tests.
I will send you more as soon as I have.
Peace,
Poweroad
+++
possible revised APP and FW update to address the pop-up Warnings that are worrying some people, which appear to be normal BMS operations..
+++
Hi Dellmassive,
Thanks for sharing the further data and opinions.
We have hold several meetings with engineer to discuss this. Yes, we will upgrade the program to resolve it. The new program will be finished about Friday, then do more tests.
I will send you more as soon as I have.
Peace,
Poweroad
+++
possible revised APP and FW update to address the pop-up Warnings that are worrying some people, which appear to be normal BMS operations..
Below is a post from a Dutch Victron Techy. He agrees with your advice above but sets the tail current at 2%. POWEROAD absorption is 14.4. so 14.2 is spot on.
So I’ve moved mine to that now. We’ll see how it performs this weekend in readiness for my 2 week wild camp on the NC500
Let us know how you get on wild camping the NC500. We've got kids so I'd love to hear whether it's still feasible to wild camp the NC500 during school summer holidays.
Will do.
@Dellmassive another views on this. Mine is configured as they suggest and follows your thinking but the Discharge Floor is at 20%. they recommend 0% not sure I'm comfortable with that but I'm good with 10%.
All About BMVs
Have questions about your BMV-712 or just want to know more? Click here to read all about how to wire, program, and troubleshoot your BMV.
battlebornbatteries.com
here is some more background info on the PRLC-100 Poweroad.
answering a few questions and suggestions . .
Morning Dellmassive,
Sorry for my late reply. FYI.
Q: can you add sleep on/off notifications into the event record on app?
A: This is unnecessary. When the battery enter the sleep mode, the battery already switched off, so you can not connect the Bluetooth App at this moment.
Q:can you add feature when SLEEP is adjustable time via APP ? 1day, 2day, 3day, 1 week, 1month? Etc?
A: No
Q:The APP does not register ANY CURRENT bellow 1.0A . . . – why?
A: Because the PRLC-100 is mainly used for the RV, Marine to drive big power device, so we design and build BMS to detect the current between 1A and 1200A (1200A is the short circuit protection value).
So if the current below 1A, the BMS can not detect it, then the App show 0A/standy.
Usually we will recommend the customer to buy PRLR-100 with lower price for those applications where need small current (like below 1A).
Thanks & Best regards,
Tech Team
---------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
answering a few questions and suggestions . .
Morning Dellmassive,
Sorry for my late reply. FYI.
Q: can you add sleep on/off notifications into the event record on app?
A: This is unnecessary. When the battery enter the sleep mode, the battery already switched off, so you can not connect the Bluetooth App at this moment.
Q:can you add feature when SLEEP is adjustable time via APP ? 1day, 2day, 3day, 1 week, 1month? Etc?
A: No
Q:The APP does not register ANY CURRENT bellow 1.0A . . . – why?
A: Because the PRLC-100 is mainly used for the RV, Marine to drive big power device, so we design and build BMS to detect the current between 1A and 1200A (1200A is the short circuit protection value).
So if the current below 1A, the BMS can not detect it, then the App show 0A/standy.
Usually we will recommend the customer to buy PRLR-100 with lower price for those applications where need small current (like below 1A).
Thanks & Best regards,
Tech Team
---------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
The first couple of those feel like nice-to-have type features. The last one feels really poor in my opinion. Not registering below a 1amp current on a 100Ah battery is really odd. You could sit there with a 0.99A constant drain, and the battery would be ~24Ah down in a day (and dead in a week) without the BMS noticing? Alternatively, you could be running very small drain on crucial components like a tracker or dashcam when parked and the battery would go to sleep?
The SLEEP thing is causing issues with the monitoring.
where its going to SLEEP due to the loads being less than 1.0A its shutting off and resetting my monitoring.
not a major issue i know . . .
this is not a normal install as the battery is sitting in a battery box and not installed on a RV/Van. . . .
but you can see the effect here on the BM2 monitor.
a fragmented Voltage plot and a constant reset of values on the Victron smart shunt. (last 15days)
++++
++++
we asked Poweroad about this, . . . . . . and maybe asked if the SLEEP time could be increased to get around the issues.
we did get a relpy:, so thank you Poweroad.
++++
Hi Dellmassive,
Thanks for the suggestions, I will forward it on the tomorrow meeting with engineer, to see if it will add the sleep mode into App.
About your questions: "why is it switching OFF and ON at different intervals? – is it sleep event?"
example- 19/07/21 - battery OFF 0000hrs till, 1300hrs then ON to 2230hrs then OFF? Voltage stable at 13.2v . . .? why?
I wonder if the battery triggered any condition of sleep mode automatically during 0000hrs~2230hrs, so it switching OFF and ON at different interval.
I guess there was a current (>1A) at 1300hrs, so the battery ON. Because in the idle state, only the charge/discharge current less 1A, battery will open 24 Hours timer and ready to sleep, however, once it detects there was a current which is over 1A during 24hrs, the timer is cleared to 0 and out of sleep mode.
B.regards,
Poweroad Tech
++++
where its going to SLEEP due to the loads being less than 1.0A its shutting off and resetting my monitoring.
not a major issue i know . . .
this is not a normal install as the battery is sitting in a battery box and not installed on a RV/Van. . . .
but you can see the effect here on the BM2 monitor.
a fragmented Voltage plot and a constant reset of values on the Victron smart shunt. (last 15days)
++++
++++
we asked Poweroad about this, . . . . . . and maybe asked if the SLEEP time could be increased to get around the issues.
we did get a relpy:, so thank you Poweroad.
++++
Hi Dellmassive,
Thanks for the suggestions, I will forward it on the tomorrow meeting with engineer, to see if it will add the sleep mode into App.
About your questions: "why is it switching OFF and ON at different intervals? – is it sleep event?"
example- 19/07/21 - battery OFF 0000hrs till, 1300hrs then ON to 2230hrs then OFF? Voltage stable at 13.2v . . .? why?
I wonder if the battery triggered any condition of sleep mode automatically during 0000hrs~2230hrs, so it switching OFF and ON at different interval.
I guess there was a current (>1A) at 1300hrs, so the battery ON. Because in the idle state, only the charge/discharge current less 1A, battery will open 24 Hours timer and ready to sleep, however, once it detects there was a current which is over 1A during 24hrs, the timer is cleared to 0 and out of sleep mode.
B.regards,
Poweroad Tech
++++
Last edited:
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