Engine battery charging using leisure battery?

[Dellmassive]

yes . . .

its all over here:

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It --

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It -- Right so its that time of year again . . . . . . . . Winter & (Lockdown 2020) The van might be layed up not being used, which will lead to a flat battery in around 3 weeks. The cold weather doesn't help the battery's...

www.t6forum.com

this is the unit . . . ( the newer V2 units have spade connections )





..


this is the wire diagram. . .

its 3 wires, ground, starter POS, LB POS.




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this is mine - installed in the seat base. . .


and connected to the feeds on the DC-DC charger. . . ( the Redarc at that point )









more info here:

BM2 update

Gi shall have to read the instructions again to suss out how to get 5- 8 options.

www.t6forum.com

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[Mattsuze]

Any diagrams of how the AMT12 would wire up to Starter battery, with wires from LB.
Trying to work out myself how I'd get a cable through into the engine bay now a conversion is already carried out.

I reckon this could be a fix that loads of people with campervans could use - I don’t think the norm is to trickle feed into the starter battery but seems like a pretty essential fixture to me.
An idea of how to write into the engine compartment would be great.

 

[Dellmassive]

I reckon this could be a fix that loads of people with campervans could use - I don’t think the norm is to trickle feed into the starter battery but seems like a pretty essential fixture to me.
An idea of how to write into the engine compartment would be great.

just three wires, capable of carrying 4-6A,

GRN - chassis Ground

START BATT - fused link to the starter battery POS

LEISURE BATT - fused link to the leisure battery POS

AMT12-2 Trickle Charger charges Vehicle Battery from Leisure Battery with Solar Charger /Mains Hookup | Ablemail Electronics

The AMT12-2 has many names Trickle Charger, Battery Maintainer, Battery Saver, Reverse Charger, Top Up Charger, Battery Equaliser, but its purpose is to keep a Source / Vehicle Battery charged & protected from damage during prolonged periods of Vehicle, Boat & Motorhome inactivity or storage...

ablemail.co.uk

https://ablemail.co.uk/sites/default/files/DOC%20No%20SWI049%20-%20ABLEMAIL%20-%20GENERAL%20Trickle%20Charge%20Installation%20Instructions%20Rev.A.pdf

https://ablemail.co.uk/sites/default/files/specs/AMT12-2%20DATA%20SHEET.pdf

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[t0mb0]

I reckon this could be a fix that loads of people with campervans could use - I don’t think the norm is to trickle feed into the starter battery but seems like a pretty essential fixture to me.
An idea of how to write into the engine compartment would be great.

You can stick it anywhere you have access to a starter and leisure battery feed, wherever you have the DC-DC installed would be fine.

If you have a lithium leisure battery you’ll want the ablemail one, otherwise the cheaper votronic one will work fine too - it’s fit and forget.

Votronic DC-DC and MPPT controllers tend to have them built in, I don’t know why more don’t do this too.

Worth giving your starter a health check though too, just to check it’s ok.

 

[Salty Spuds]

I have an AMT12, fit & forget solution that works. Costs about £50

 

[Mattsuze]

Thank you everyone for your help. Very much appreciated.
Will go for either the AMT12 or Vectron Argonet - both seem similar in what they do. I’ve asked the company who converted our van whether they allowed any slack in the cabling as it will be quite an awkward job otherwise.
Once I start, I’ll take photos of my handiwork (give everyone a laugh if nothing else) hopefully so others can see how to carry out this fix.

 

[t0mb0]

Thank you everyone for your help. Very much appreciated.
Will go for either the AMT12 or Vectron Argonet - both seem similar in what they do. I’ve asked the company who converted our van whether they allowed any slack in the cabling as it will be quite an awkward job otherwise.
Once I start, I’ll take photos of my handiwork (give everyone a laugh if nothing else) hopefully so others can see how to carry out this fix.

It’s only small gauge wiring you need so you might be able to take it straight off the terminals of the DC-DC maybe? Depends on the terminal type.

 

[Salty Spuds]

It’s only small gauge wiring you need so you might be able to take it straight off the terminals of the DC-DC maybe? Depends on the terminal type.

Yup I just came off the AMT12 onto the in/outputs of the Orion. You only need some thin fly leads from the AMT12. I used some 1.5mm thin wall tinned stranded cable that I had lying around. Just piggy backed into the Orion terminals.

 

[Oceanis]

Thank you everyone for your help. Very much appreciated.
Will go for either the AMT12 or Vectron Argonet - both seem similar in what they do. I’ve asked the company who converted our van whether they allowed any slack in the cabling as it will be quite an awkward job otherwise.
Once I start, I’ll take photos of my handiwork (give everyone a laugh if nothing else) hopefully so others can see how to carry out this fix.

The Victron is more expensive, but it will supply the full 30A charging current from the MPPT to Starter and/or Leisure batteries - split between them. It is really a specific solution to the VW Beach/Ocean with VW isolation relay, start/stop, Camper Unit with electrical hook up and charger.

If you have a converted Transporter, I'd go the trickle charge route (e.g. ATM12) as you don't have the VW camper unit logic joining the starter and leisure banks together using the isolation relay.

 

[Mattsuze]

The Victron is more expensive, but it will supply the full 30A charging current from the MPPT to Starter and/or Leisure batteries - split between them. It is really a specific solution to the VW Beach/Ocean with VW isolation relay, start/stop, Camper Unit with electrical hook up and charger.

If you have a converted Transporter, I'd go the trickle charge route (e.g. ATM12) as you don't have the VW camper unit logic joining the starter and leisure banks together using the isolation relay.

Thanks, I’ll go the AMT12 route as it is a Transporter conversion.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I added a second solar charge controller and a method of swapping the solar feed between the new controller connected to my starter battery and my existing Redarc DC/DC charger connected to my leisure battery.
This allows a faster charge from the solar panels should the need arise.

Using Leisure battery solar panels to charge starter battery

I am thinking of adding a solar charge controller to my setup to allow me to charge the starter battery from my rooftop panel should the need arise. Has anyone done something similar? I am thinking of adding another battery cut off switch to the solar feed so I can disconnect it from the Redarc...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Mattsuze]

yes . . .

its all over here:

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It --

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It -- Right so its that time of year again . . . . . . . . Winter & (Lockdown 2020) The van might be layed up not being used, which will lead to a flat battery in around 3 weeks. The cold weather doesn't help the battery's...

www.t6forum.com

this is the unit . . . ( the newer V2 units have spade connections )

View attachment 169395



..


this is the wire diagram. . .

its 3 wires, ground, starter POS, LB POS.

View attachment 169396


.

this is mine - installed in the seat base. . .


and connected to the feeds on the DC-DC charger. . . ( the Redarc at that point )


View attachment 169397


View attachment 169398View attachment 169399



more info here:

BM2 update

Gi shall have to read the instructions again to suss out how to get 5- 8 options.

www.t6forum.com

.

Hi Dellmassive
I’ve taken some pictures of the Victron Orion TR Smart that is mounted under the drivers seat, facing the front of the van, leisure battery is behind it.
Are you able to advise me as to whether the AMT12 could be mounted vertically and in the space to the left of the Orion.
And is it as straight forward as writing directly into the input and output of the Orion? Where would the earth cable be connected and do I need another fuse?
What I can’t get my head around is how charge would flow in reverse through the Orion unless it’s made to be two-way, in which case could it theoretically be programmed to trickle feed back into the starter battery when leisure battery is amply charged?

 

[Skyliner33]

Hi Dellmassive
I’ve taken some pictures of the Victron Orion TR Smart that is mounted under the drivers seat, facing the front of the van, leisure battery is behind it.
Are you able to advise me as to whether the AMT12 could be mounted vertically and in the space to the left of the Orion.
And is it as straight forward as writing directly into the input and output of the Orion? Where would the earth cable be connected and do I need another fuse?
What I can’t get my head around is how charge would flow in reverse through the Orion unless it’s made to be two-way, in which case could it theoretically be programmed to trickle feed back into the starter battery when leisure battery is amply charged?

View attachment 169874

View attachment 169875

View attachment 169876

There looks to be enough room to instal next to the dc-dc.
It looks to me like you have the wires mixed up in that diagram you did on the photo.
Vehicle battery -> input
Leisure battery -> output.

 

[Oceanis]

Hi Dellmassive
I’ve taken some pictures of the Victron Orion TR Smart that is mounted under the drivers seat, facing the front of the van, leisure battery is behind it.
Are you able to advise me as to whether the AMT12 could be mounted vertically and in the space to the left of the Orion.
And is it as straight forward as writing directly into the input and output of the Orion? Where would the earth cable be connected and do I need another fuse?
What I can’t get my head around is how charge would flow in reverse through the Orion unless it’s made to be two-way, in which case could it theoretically be programmed to trickle feed back into the starter battery when leisure battery is amply charged?

View attachment 169874

View attachment 169875

View attachment 169876

The Orion is probably set up to charge your leisure batteries from the alternator. If your van has no VW isolation relay or camper unit and it is a conversion of a single battery Transporter then this is almost certainly the case, but please check. No current will back-flow through the Orion, it is designed to isolate the charge source from the charge target and allow different battery chemistries and charge profiles - so for example you could put a Lithium battery on the Orion outputs, configure it for a Lithium charge profile, and your alternator and AGM starter battery can remain as they are.

The alternator charge from the starter battery will be detected and used by the Orion to charge your leisure battery and current will only flow in this direction.

If you have shore-power or solar charging attached to your leisure battery, and you want to trickle charge the starter then you need to connect the leisure terminal of the ATM12 to the Orion Output (because it is attached to your leisure battery), and the Starter side of the ATM12 to the Orion Input (because it is attached to your Starter battery). The earth can go to the same earth as the Orion.

Hopefully Dellmassive will be along in a moment with a second opinion.

 

[Deaky]

This will also be a factor in your starter battery running flat. You should not connect any -ve connections to the starter battery post. There is a shunt on it that measures the amps in and out. anything connected here will not be measured. All -ve connections must be made to the body of the van.

This is almost certainly why you’ve suffered a flat battery.

 

[Mattsuze]

This will also be a factor in your starter battery running flat. You should not connect any -ve connections to the starter battery post. There is a shunt on it that measures the amps in and out. anything connected here will not be measured. All -ve connections must be made to the body of the van.

This is almost certainly why you’ve suffered a flat battery.



View attachment 169891

Is this definitely right? There should not be anything connected to the -ve terminal of the starter battery!
This was fitted by the company that converted the van so I would only disconnect this if it is absolutely definitely incorrectly connected.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Is this definitely right? There should not be anything connected to the -ve terminal of the starter battery!

Correct

 

[Skyliner33]

Is this definitely right? There should not be anything connected to the -ve terminal of the starter battery!
This was fitted by the company that converted the van so I would only disconnect this if it is absolutely definitely incorrectly connected.

Yes @Deaky is correct.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Just move it to a nearby bolt point.
I have mine on one down at the bottom right hand corner of the battery.

 

[Grim Reaper]

There are another two on the left hand side.