Split-Chargers & Bluemotion
- Thread starter superflyguy
- Start date
@Plumb, thanks for the info, trying to work through this with/for you so please bear with me..
Something doesn't appear right here, as a battery should last longer than a couple of years, as it isn't a cheap battery that is fitted as OEM. Have you got VCDS? If so check the vehicle for faults, especially the charging, and go back to VW 2nd dealer to get them to sort out the stop start, "see how it goes" with that fault is washing their hands of it whilst not fixing it! If no joy, contact VW, whilst at the dealer!
Something doesn't appear right here, as a battery should last longer than a couple of years, as it isn't a cheap battery that is fitted as OEM. Have you got VCDS? If so check the vehicle for faults, especially the charging, and go back to VW 2nd dealer to get them to sort out the stop start, "see how it goes" with that fault is washing their hands of it whilst not fixing it! If no joy, contact VW, whilst at the dealer!
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Well i must thank @travelvolts, Martyn came up to Nottingham on Wednesday and wired up my, leisure battery, inverter and his supplied charger to the van, after seeing this thread i thought id get someone who was going to do the job properly!
Very tidy install!
Very tidy install!
T6 Dave's Dad
Member
That, @travelvolts , is an old-fashioned thing called SERVICE and it should always be recognised and complimented as @Rossco2608 has done in style. 
@Rossco2608 thanks for the feedback, and @travelvolts keep up the good work It's good to see a company that cares
It's good to see a company that cares 
I've bitten the bullet and bought a Ring RSCDC30, found it on eBay at £148.47 (Post Free) from National Autorax via their eBay name of 'vanbits1'. They have the same item on their website at £175.03 but will offer 15% discount I think.
I did originally intend to go along the same lines as VW with just a BCM operated relay but as I am fitting a solar panel the RSDC30 device also includes a MPPT unit I've opted for this instead.
Rod
I did originally intend to go along the same lines as VW with just a BCM operated relay but as I am fitting a solar panel the RSDC30 device also includes a MPPT unit I've opted for this instead.
Rod
Travelvolts, I've read the whole thread with interest as I was about to buy a BB1260 for my Racevan build. This build will have 2 or 3 110ah leisure batteries, and I'm looking for the best charging option. Would the BB1260 be the right solution or would it be too much? Ps van is 2007 XLWB Crafter (apologies but it's still a VW )
Cheers
Cheers
With a 60 amp charger you would need to use open lead acid batteries, preferably deep cycle. Charging at 60 amps is going to cost water so you will need to be able to top up the batteries. If you have space I would recommend something like Trojan T105s. These are 6 volt deep cycle batteries and you would need a pair in series to give you your 12 volts. Two pairs would be even better.
A lot depends on what your usage is going to be like. I am guessing you will be using an inverter to run tyre warmers and such so battery capacity is going to be important. You could probably get away with a 30 amp charger and a pair of Leoch 120 AGM batteries as well. I could give more accurate recommendations if you can calculate your likely power demands.
A lot depends on what your usage is going to be like. I am guessing you will be using an inverter to run tyre warmers and such so battery capacity is going to be important. You could probably get away with a 30 amp charger and a pair of Leoch 120 AGM batteries as well. I could give more accurate recommendations if you can calculate your likely power demands.
Travelvolts, thanks for your swift response, most appreciated. When I'm racing I will always have 240v hookup. The battery bank is for weekends away with a couple of tech hungry kids and a Gf who won't leave home without hair straighteners Basically I'm looking to overspec my requirement a little and make sure I'm not caught short. Main use will be straighteners, tv, Xbox, laptop and phone chargers....plus all 12v lighting, either webasto diesel heater or Propex 2000 (I have both, undecided which I'm using yet), electric toilet, gas water heater and a water pump.
I would go with the eLogic and a pair of Leoch 120 AGM batteries. Use the Victron 12.375 inverter for your 240 when no hook up is available. Modified sine wave inverters (the cheaper ones) will not work with straighteners.
Dave Hallford-Nye
Member
Hi Guys.
I hope you don't mind me jumping in as a new comer. This is a subject I know about I am a technical sales engineer for power products.
Please listen to the others that have advised not to use VSR's on euro 5 & 6 vehicles with smart alternators . By design the ecu will only charge the battery to 80% to allow for the regen braking to charge the vehicle battery under braking conditions (kinetic energy converted to electrical energy instead of heat in brake pads) 15v + will be present on any auxiliary battery and loads. Even with a Vsr that has over voltage protection the variable output from the alternator will not be suitable for charging a secondary battery.
Many manufacturers and installers are trying to use/adapt Vsr's, and relay systems to work with smart alternators but in reality this will never be a safe and efficient method.
We have heard of horror stories of euro 6 vehicles bursting into flames due to the mis-application of a Vsr into a van with a smart alternator.
A Dc-DC charger is really the only option, these work just like an Mppt controller and buck or boast the variable voltage to an optimum charging algorithm.
There are many choices on the market but i like the Redarc, an Australian manufacturer that has designed a superior Dc-DC charger
I appreciate that what use to be a £30 job is now £300 but the batteries and your safety will be better off.
I hope this helps
I hope you don't mind me jumping in as a new comer. This is a subject I know about I am a technical sales engineer for power products.
Please listen to the others that have advised not to use VSR's on euro 5 & 6 vehicles with smart alternators . By design the ecu will only charge the battery to 80% to allow for the regen braking to charge the vehicle battery under braking conditions (kinetic energy converted to electrical energy instead of heat in brake pads) 15v + will be present on any auxiliary battery and loads. Even with a Vsr that has over voltage protection the variable output from the alternator will not be suitable for charging a secondary battery.
Many manufacturers and installers are trying to use/adapt Vsr's, and relay systems to work with smart alternators but in reality this will never be a safe and efficient method.
We have heard of horror stories of euro 6 vehicles bursting into flames due to the mis-application of a Vsr into a van with a smart alternator.
A Dc-DC charger is really the only option, these work just like an Mppt controller and buck or boast the variable voltage to an optimum charging algorithm.
There are many choices on the market but i like the Redarc, an Australian manufacturer that has designed a superior Dc-DC charger
I appreciate that what use to be a £30 job is now £300 but the batteries and your safety will be better off.
I hope this helps
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Dave Hallford-Nye
Member
For anyone interested I have added brochure and user manual for the 40A Low voltage version which is compatible with all Euro 5 & 6 alternators.
Thanks for the post @Dave Hallford-Nye , I will show this to my stuck in the Stone Age using flints to make fire converter (for flints insert VSR), and beat him up some more with this club! as despite asking him to fit my dc30 he reckons it's not needed ! (yep I've tried to educate a village idiot).
T6 Dave's Dad
Member
Hi guys, I posted this elsewhere but I thought you might like to know that there are some dodgy converters out there who don't fully understand the Euro5 engined T6.
Unfortunately there are a lot of scare stories and conflicting information on this subject. I am an electrical controls engineer and have based my installation on the evidence I have observed and the welcome insights of this forum. I have a verified voltmeter on the output of my main battery. In all driving conditions it has never been above 14.8v, and with lights on stays at that. If/when the alternator does reduce its output it drops to 13.4v if theres a light load like the fan on, or 13v if not.
I don't believe VW have built any sort of sophisticated charging circuit into the T6. Its either on or off. They fit AGM batteries as standard as they are more tolerant of this type of charging. Their second battery installation just uses a relay. VW would not fit a system if it was prone to blowing the ***s out of their customers expensive add-ons.
Based on the above, you could use a VSR, and a lot of people have done without a problem. It just won't charge your battery very well and if you use a standard lead-acid the battery probably won't last long. I have a Ctek 250s fitted, connected to the normal input with no ignition-fed relay. It works really well. I fitted it for the simple reason that I wanted to charge my leisure battery quickly and efficiently.
Of course this is just my opinion and may get some purists spluttering, but I'm more than happy to hear reasoning that might change my view. For instance, could someone explain what causes a VSR to burn out/ cause an electrical fire if fitted to a T6?
I don't believe VW have built any sort of sophisticated charging circuit into the T6. Its either on or off. They fit AGM batteries as standard as they are more tolerant of this type of charging. Their second battery installation just uses a relay. VW would not fit a system if it was prone to blowing the ***s out of their customers expensive add-ons.
Based on the above, you could use a VSR, and a lot of people have done without a problem. It just won't charge your battery very well and if you use a standard lead-acid the battery probably won't last long. I have a Ctek 250s fitted, connected to the normal input with no ignition-fed relay. It works really well. I fitted it for the simple reason that I wanted to charge my leisure battery quickly and efficiently.
Of course this is just my opinion and may get some purists spluttering, but I'm more than happy to hear reasoning that might change my view. For instance, could someone explain what causes a VSR to burn out/ cause an electrical fire if fitted to a T6?
T6 Dave's Dad
Member
@MartyMoose I am not an auto electrician but I am a reasonably intelligent individual. I suspect the problems are to do with the inputs to the battery created by the smart alternator and the regenerative braking energy recovery as I understand things. I am happy to be corrected but I am NOT going to engage in a pi**ing contest.
Dave Hallford-Nye
Member
Hi Martymoose,
You are quite right there are many people using VSR's who have not had any issues to date however there are also many vehicles that have suffered fatal damage due to the incompatibility of a Vsr and variable voltage alternator.
Even if a fault never occurs as you stated they will never charge the auxiliary battery more than 85-90%. It will shorten the life of the battery and reduce performance
We sell over 1000 VSR's a month in the UK and I have heard many horror stories and always been skeptical about how and why.
This week I was contacted by a company formally investigating a fire caused by one of our VSR's that was installed in a euro 6 vehicle by a small camper conversion company.
subsequently this made me register and post to this forum.
As for what is the reason behind electrical fires. That is a very good question and above my knowledge at present. I hope to find out more over the coming weeks and will update you all if I can get feedback from the investigator.
This is down to mis application.
many auto electricians believe Dc systems are 100% safe and pose no risk. All it takes is a spark and havoc can break loose
T6 Dave's Dad
Member
@Dave Hallford-Nye Thank you for your response which I take to mean that I have the right end of the stick and that my posting, coupled with @T6 Dave's experiences, are a justified warning to others ?
@Dave Hallford-Nye , welcome and thanks for your input and knowledge.. I think the problems arise from the sudden current spikes, and the fact that people do not believe that you have to install vent tubes on batteries installed under seat, as even gel and AGM batteries are equipped with valves that vent the gasses produced when met with over voltage or amp charging/fault situations. These gasses are explosive given a spark or other source of ignition.
All this and a misunderstanding of modern vehicle electrics and the modern alternator.. As you might be getting tolerable voltages, but don't forget the other elephant.. Amps. What I don't understand is why people take the risk, instead of installing the correct piece of kit in the first place, yet spend loads of wonga on wheels and lowering kits etc..
I now go and hide in the corner as my head hurts from trying to educate my converter.. In the end, people have the info, and it's up to them to fit kit and be happy and confident with it doing the job safely and reliably.
All this and a misunderstanding of modern vehicle electrics and the modern alternator.. As you might be getting tolerable voltages, but don't forget the other elephant.. Amps. What I don't understand is why people take the risk, instead of installing the correct piece of kit in the first place, yet spend loads of wonga on wheels and lowering kits etc..
I now go and hide in the corner as my head hurts from trying to educate my converter.. In the end, people have the info, and it's up to them to fit kit and be happy and confident with it doing the job safely and reliably.
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