Oil radiator installation. Possible troubleshooting solutions?

[FerrisBFW]

View attachment 285305

Looking for space this morning bright and early

View attachment 285306

so stood there for an hour this lunchtime looking at all options where to put this thing and I think roughly this is the only place. Big plus is the hose runs will be easy. I am going to use the supplied ones and then order properly made braided hoses with the right angle fittings after. Mock up pictures later today. I think I need to make heavier duty mounts from steel than the supplied ally meccano

 

[Cog Head]

How much air flow does it get down there?

 

[FerrisBFW]

its not great but I cant think of anywhere else for it to go. I might look at some extra holes maybe? Brackets made and painted this afternoon. Fit tomorrow. New filter should be here in the morning.

 

[Richard T6.1]

Like you say, that spot is not great at all.
This is where specialists like Redhead and others put them. Tried and tested for years. I wouldn’t gamble on the spot behind the bumper tbo. The radiator also needs to be protected from possible stones etc. A leak means loosing your engine oil. That goes very wrong really quick.

 

[Cog Head]

Like you say, that spot is not great at all.
This is where specialists like Redhead and others put them. Tried and tested for years. I wouldn’t gamble on the spot behind the bumper tbo. The radiator also needs to be protected from possible stones etc. A leak means loosing your engine oil. That goes very wrong really quick.

View attachment 285411

That is exactly where my cooler be placed, and those pipework runs look exactly like the routes I’ve planned for mine.

Thanks for posting this

 

[Richard T6.1]

That is exactly where my cooler be placed, and those pipework runs look exactly like the routes I’ve planned for mine.

Thanks for posting this

You’re welcome @Cog Head. It’s just that I digged in deep on this subject. The German TX forum has a wealth of info on this. I was convinced I needed an oil cooler too and already planned the installation at Redhead in Germany. Turned out that wasn’t the case after all with a 150 as I mentioned earlier in this topic.

Looking forward to see your progress and results with a DIY solution. Cool!

 

[FerrisBFW]

Its actually not as bad as i first thought now mounted. Runs to the oiil filter are pretty easy. Lets give ut a go and see how it preforms i guess

 

[Sasquatch]

Was there anything in the instructions regarding the height of the cooler with respect to the filter?

 

[FerrisBFW]

Like you say, that spot is not great at all.
This is where specialists like Redhead and others put them. Tried and tested for years. I wouldn’t gamble on the spot behind the bumper tbo. The radiator also needs to be protected from possible stones etc. A leak means loosing your engine oil. That goes very wrong really quick.

View attachment 285411

show me your oil filter end can you please? Doing that tomorrow with the made up pipes and then order

Was there anything in the instructions regarding the height of the cooler with respect to the filter?

nope. Plenty of oil coolers are mounted low down.

 

[FerrisBFW]

Just did some research on a few motorsport sites and most say the stories are all cobblers on orientation and location.

"It's only a minor point. You will get air caught in with the oil from time to time. It will be blown through the oil system until it reaches the crank case, or find a corner to collect in. The oil cooler is a good place for it to collect because the oil speed is quite low and it has dead corners. If you do get oil sitting here, it will tend to find its way out the top when the engine is off, and probably sit in the oil supply hose. Then when you start the engine it will get dumped back into the cooler. You won't get much air there because oil is thick stuff and will tend to carry the air bubbles away with it, but since there's no other difference I can see it seems best to have the oil and air agreeing that they both want to go the same way."

I am going to give it a go and see how it performs. If it doesnt work well its easy enough to disconnect/rework the mounting. I will do all this before buying the right length braided hoses.

 

[Sasquatch]

Just did some research on a few motorsport sites and most say the stories are all cobblers on orientation and location.

That's why I was asking. I was wondering what the manufacturer of the parts themselves thought on the matter.

 

[FerrisBFW]

I did read that you absolutely should not have your cooler near anything hot like a collant radiator…. I think both our locations fail on this front

 

[Richard T6.1]

Although touched on earlier in this topic, I think it's important to keep in mind that our application doesn't have anything to do with motorsport, high performance and/or tuned engines for or track(day) use'n all that. This is a utility van for daily use, year round. Very different use case, very different parameters. An additional oil cooler on our vans needs to step in gradually when, and only when, the oil temp gets too high. Not slam down the oil temp 20 degrees regardless. That's (sort of) fine on a 'motorsport engine' that's used as such. On our daily diesels this would likely make the cure worse than the disease.

The cooler working controlled in the right temperature window is much more important than where the rad sits. It's kind of the only parameter that matters really.

 

[Richard T6.1]

To add a bit more to the above... (then I'll stop rambling, promise)

The 'ideal' normal temperature window for the oil is between 100 and 115 -ish deg C. This might seem low but keep in mind that the temp reading on the dash is in the sump. The actual oil temp at the most critical areas (pistons/bores and turbo(s) is considerably higher.
Due to the rich mixture (read extra fuel) during cold starts & short trips, unburned diesel gets into the oil. Not good but unavoidable. You need 100+ for the fuel residues to gas out properly. On the flip side, sustained temps above 115-120 C (sump!) age and deteriorate the oil at an increasing rate the higher and longer the oil operates at these temps. 'Long life' oils are not excluded here.

As most owners know, the BiTurbos run at considerably higher oil temps than the lower powered single/no turbo engines (power = heat). Add the long oil service intervals that VW tends to use to the equasion and you have a potential toxic mix of (too) high oil temps with (too) long service intervals. This is an important aspect why quite a few BiTurbos develop problems in the longer run (imo it's the factor). Extensive wear on the bores & rings - oil consumption - failing turbo's etc.
A good oil cooler setup and shorter oil service intervals will reduce the risk of these issues significantly - if not eliminate them (imo).

 

[Marc R]

I'll be placing the oil cooler on top of the intercooler on the right side just next to the VW logo (if the hoses let me).... DD's instructions place it behind the the logo but i want optimal airflow.

I sure hope they sent me a black cooler instead of a silver one..

 

[FerrisBFW]

Bit of a faff getting fittings on the pipes and getting it routed but all done now. Test drive, i do think its running cooler by about 6~10 degrees max. On the dash it maxed out at 95 where normally its really easy to get to 105. I guess time will tell when fully loaded and in some hills. I will order the proper made pipes next.

FYI - Since my new engine i do 5k miles oil changes now. First 4k miles it had three oil and filter changes. Not paranoid or anything.

 

[Cog Head]

Nice work!

If I would recommend HEL for the pre made hoses, their quality is second to none.

I’m looking forward to getting all the rest of my bits in the next couple of days, can’t wait to get cracking with it.

Then it’s ECU & DSG remap, should hopefully have a completely different experience

 

[Marc R]

Just did the remap and DSG remap last thursday, huge improvement for the van.

 

[FerrisBFW]

102 degrees does s

That puzzles me tbo. Why would you want to open an oil cooler at 80 C when the engine is not even at operating temp yet? This only slows down further warming of the oil without any reason and with an adverse effect. This seems a standard (I avoid ‘old school’) performance oriented setup. Probably fine for (highly) tuned engines but a lot less for a (close to) standard daily van used year round.
This is exactly the point that Redhead emphasizes too btw.

I think you are right. I will look for a sandwich plate that opens later. I found Mocal do a 92d unit. Sorry I was busy (working on my van, BiL Polo and getting ready for my incoming Lancia from SA) to read everything here. Have now and get the 100+ degrees theory. I will think again. As I had the front off doing a big bunch of chores and winter protecting I thought why not. I will look at HEL's site. It does work, it just needs tuning now ;-)

 

[FerrisBFW]

So HEL do a multitude of sandwich plates with 102d options. I like this one, it might make life easier

HEL Thermostatic 90 Degree Oil Filter Sandwich Plate

Welcome to the HEL Performance range of high-quality, dependable and unrivalled oil system components. Our widely embraced, race-winning products have not only secured victories on the race track but have also been rigorously tested on the open road.

auto.helperformance.com