Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Ayjay]

@Dellmassive. The Renogy website are showing them as sold out. Just to double check, is this the one that you're recommending (ie. does '100AH w/bluetooth' mean with the BT2 module)?
See the one indicated by the yellow arrow:

 

[Deaky]

@Dellmassive. The Renogy website are showing them as sold out. Just to double check, is this the one that you're recommending (ie. does '100AH w/bluetooth' mean with the BT2 module)?
See the one indicated by the yellow arrow:View attachment 205419

That's the one with built in Bluetooth module. That one doesn't come with the separate BT module.

 

[Dellmassive]

no, thats the larger verion w/bt ( ie NON Smart ) . (you can tell the difference as it has the handle)

I've detailed them above. . .


the SMART does NOT have the HANDLE, and DOES have the plugin bits on top.


Amazon Renogy store show them in stock.

it looks like this , and is isted as the "100ah"





.....

https://amzn.to/44I8EYW

.....

 

[Bluesman]

@Dellmassive @Ayjay Sorry to sort of hijack the latest conversation but could somebody please tell me the difference between the 'smart' version with the bluetooth module and the 'non-smart' version which has built in bluetooth (apart from the size that is). Presumably they both talk to the app via bluetooth but one has got it built in rather than needing a dongle but what's so 'smart' about the smart one. Also could you confirm that this is the BT module needed by the smart version in question. I'm very tempted but being basically tight, I want to know what I would be getting for the extra money.

 

[Dellmassive]

just to clear things up :


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

note the cycle life: -- Smart has Double,

note the dimensions -- the Smart is much smaller for a seat base install.

( never tried fitting the W/BT version in a seat base )(now have confirmed that it fits, @Bigsidavies has one sitting on its side in drivers seat base)





++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery​

SKU: RBT100LFP12S-UK

SPECIFICATIONS
Rated Capacity: 100Ah	Insulation Resistance: 500V DC, ≥ 10 MΩ
Operating Charge Temperature: 32~131°F/ 0~55°C	Maximum Continuous Charging Current: 50 A
Operating Discharge Temperature: -4~140°F/ -20~60°C	Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 100 A
Voltage Range: 10~14.8 V	Communication Port: RJ45 (RS485 Protocol)
Nominal Voltage: 12.8V	Storage Temperature: -13~149°F/ -25~65°C
Connection Method: Parallel	Cycle Life: ≥4000 Cycles @ 80% DoD
Dimensions:11.4 x 6.8 x 7.4 inch / 289 x 172 x 187.5 mm	Weight: 26 lbs. / 11.8 kg
Certifications: UN38.3, MSDS, UL1642, UKCA，PSE，FCC (Lithium Cell)	Battery Terminal Bolts: M8x1x14mm
Protection Rate: IP54	Additional Terminal Bolts: M8x1x20mm

.



verses. . .

12V 100Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Bluetooth​

SKU: RBT100LFP12-BT-UK

RENOGY 12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY
Operation Specifications	Mechanical Specifications
Rated Capacity	100 Ah	Dimensions	12.99 x6.77 x 8.43 inch / 330 x 172 x 214mm
Nominal Voltage	12.8 V	Weight	28.7 lbs. / 13.0 kg
Voltage Range	10~14.8 V	Charge Temperature	32~131°F/ 0~55°C
Cycle Life(0.5C,25℃)	80%DOD 2000 Cycles	Discharge Temperature	-4~140°F/ -20~60°C
Maximum Continuous Charging Current	50 A	Protection Rate	IP65
Maximum Continuous Discharging Current	100 A	Communication Port	Modbus
Standard Operation Temperature	25℃±5℃	Certifications
Storage Temperature	-13~149℉ / -25~65℃	UN38.3	YES
Connection Method	Parallel(Up to 8)	MSDS	YES
		FCC	YES

....

 

[Bluesman]

@Dellmassive . Thank you - Just realised that I didn't include the link to the bluetooth module. Is this it ( Although I couldnt find it on Amazon)?

BT-2 Bluetooth Module for Renogy Products w/ RS485 Port

The Renogy BT-2 can connect to Renogy charge controllers with a RS232 port and is used to pair charge controllers with the Renogy APP. Visit our website to see the wide selection we have to offer!

uk.renogy.com

 

[Dellmassive]

its here:

https://amzn.to/3PSekes

.

 

[Ayjay]

@Dellmassive. As usual, thanks for all the advice - I've ordered the Smart version and a BT2 module but the battery won't be here until at least 22 July. I'll post seperately about the technicalities of actually fitting the thing but as I indicated indicated in the earlier thread which I think confirmed that my current battery is dead, I'm thinking of making things as simple as possible and simply replacing my current non-lithium compatible Ctek D250SA with a CTEK D250SE. My thinking is that I'm an idiot but the SE is a straight swap that should therefore be quite straightforward.
Also, your last post on my earlier thread suggested that I should post some pictures of my current set up which I will do (albeit, it's not that easy as all the leisure kit is located in a black hole by the driver side rear wheel arch under a cupboard! This was your earlier post - do I need to photograph anything else?

The old to new ctek will be a physical straight swap....

Take some pics of the current install and fuses and wire's.

Including the starter battery connections...

That will give a better idea.

I'm sure the S and SE are both 20A chargers...... Just the se includes a lifepo4 profile.... But I'd have to double check before signing off in it

 

[Dellmassive]

@Ayjay

yes the SE CTEK is a straight swap from the SA.

however i still don't recommend the unit.

myself and others have swapped them out due to odd charge profile behaviour.


see my testing here: [Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --


+++++


if i were you, i would get the Renogy DC30S and have that fitted. ( i run the DC50S)

with the BT2 adapter you can program the current limiter. . .

the DC30S is the 30A version . . . . but you could set it at say 20A for now - if your cable install wasnt up to the full 30A.

it used the same screw + bolt design. . .

so should be fairly easy to swap over. ie four bolts. (or get a local audio car shop to help you out)

++++++++++++++++

and you can have it on your APP too.


heres mine - [Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --




++++++++++++++++

https://amzn.to/3rpjC7b

more info here:

 

[Ayjay]

@Dellmassive. Again, thanks. I've downloaded the manual for the Renogy charger and will have a look at it tomorrow but, all things being equal, it does look a fairly simple swap. However, I suspect it's not quite so straightforward for me as I would probably need to move the Victron mains charger and the 240V consumer unit (but I need a closer look). I'll post pictures of my current electrical installation tomorrow but I doubt if you would be able to tell what the cables are from the pictures (i'll be even more impressed if you can though!). I'll also try to read up more on the 'odd charge profile behaviour' of the Ctek but from what I have already seen, I think I was prepared to live with it. As for getting a local car audio specialist to help, TBH I wouldn't trust any of them. I would trust Absolut 5 but he's quite a long way from me and it would also add a large lump to the bill which is already reading like a telephone number to me.

 

[Unclebob]

@Dellmassive. Lee - As you might recall from my posts a month or so ago ('Leisure Battery Cream Crackered'), I need a new battery (and DC-DC charger) and feel that I might need to move quickly on one of these before they all go! I'd be really grateful if you could give the 1 minute lesson on the differences between 'smart', 'bluetooth' and self heating versions. I'm guessing the they all have bluetooth to tell you the charge state and health details but I'm wondering whether I need the other stuff, particularly 'self heating'. FWIW, my van is parked outside in all weathers and I tend to leave it on EHU most of the time it's parked on the drive. I've only just started to look at the stuff but there seem to be three main candidates for the battery - Renogy, Roamer and Fogstar but this offer for Renogy could just eliminate the other two.

As always, thanks in advance and apologies in advance for what will be the inevitable idiot questions when I eventually come to install the new stuff]!

Don't worry, renogy has sales more often than not. If you miss this one there will be another in a day or two

 

[Ayjay]

This arrived a short while ago but the Renogy 100Ah Smart Battery that I've also ordered won't be here until around 26 July which gives me a bit of time for more angst over which DC-DC charger to go for (ie. Ctek or Renogy). It's just stopped raining so I'll be going out to take photos of my existing electrical set up shortly and asking for further advice / comment.

 

[Ayjay]

Further to my earlier posts, see below the promised photos of my current electrical set up. I've measured the available space and it's clear that the Renogy DC-DC charger which is a fair bit bigger than the Ctek will simply not fit into the space available at the moment. I reckon it would fit if both the the Victron Bluesmart and C-Pak Consumer Unit were moved to the left but it would still be very tight (and also a much more complicated job for me anyway!). As mentioned before, I've read up on various posts on here about what are seen as the shortcomings with the Ctek D250SE with lithium batteries (special thanks to @Dellmassive for his usual expertise) and from what I understand with my limited electrical knowledge, it seems that the main problem is that it does not always manage to charge a lithium batter to 100% but often leaves it at 75% or thereabouts. To my admittedly simple brain, that still sounds like it would deliver more power overall than an AGM equivalent and also have thew advantage of a much longer life. As I said before, I've got the Renogy Smart 100Ah and Renogy BT2 bluetooth module ordered (BT2 already arrived) and now have to decide whether I take the to me much more complicated route of moving all the stuff around to accommodate the Renogy or the very simple approach of a straight swap of the Ctek D25SE for the currently fitted SA version. I've included pictures of the of the 12V side and starter battery for completeness. Note the uplugged cable on the 12V side is for the tap pump which is not used, the fuse on the live solar panel cable is 15A and the small black thing to the left of the 12V fuses is the fuse unit for the Autoterm heater (but I doubt any are relevant).

 

[Dellmassive]

Further to my earlier posts, see below the promised photos of my current electrical set up. I've measured the available space and it's clear that the Renogy DC-DC charger which is a fair bit bigger than the Ctek will simply not fit into the space available at the moment. I reckon it would fit if both the the Victron Bluesmart and C-Pak Consumer Unit were moved to the left but it would still be very tight (and also a much more complicated job for me anyway!). As mentioned before, I've read up on various posts on here about what are seen as the shortcomings with the Ctek D250SE with lithium batteries (special thanks to @Dellmassive for his usual expertise) and from what I understand with my limited electrical knowledge, it seems that the main problem is that it does not always manage to charge a lithium batter to 100% but often leaves it at 75% or thereabouts. To my admittedly simple brain, that still sounds like it would deliver more power overall than an AGM equivalent and also have thew advantage of a much longer life. As I said before, I've got the Renogy Smart 100Ah and Renogy BT2 bluetooth module ordered (BT2 already arrived) and now have to decide whether I take the to me much more complicated route of moving all the stuff around to accommodate the Renogy or the very simple approach of a straight swap of the Ctek D25SE for the currently fitted SA version. I've included pictures of the of the 12V side and starter battery for completeness. Note the uplugged cable on the 12V side is for the tap pump which is not used, the fuse on the live solar panel cable is 15A and the small black thing to the left of the 12V fuses is the fuse unit for the Autoterm heater (but I doubt any are relevant).
View attachment 205859View attachment 205860View attachment 205861View attachment 205862View attachment 205863

those trailer NEGS are incorrectly installed:

they need moving over to chassis ground. . . . light bracket possibly?

they are bypassing the vans power shunt.

 

[Bluesman]

those trailer NEGS are incorrectly installed:

they need moving over to chassis ground. . . . light bracket possibly?

they are bypassing the vans power shunt.

The wiring for mine is actually the same as in that picture but I've never really noticed anything untoward happening. What are the implications of leaving it as is please? Alternatively, would it be OK to just move the wires to connect to the earth point on the bodywork just to the right of the battery? I think the cables would need to be extended though and if so, should I join them with proper crimped connectors or would using Wagos be OK? Thank you

 

[Dellmassive]

the Trailer kit power is by-passing the van power system - so it wont detect any power draw from the towing electics or caravan.

if you dont tow all the time you wont notice much difference.

but those cables should be on chassis ground.

(if you had any towing gear hooked up you would end up with a flat starter battery)

see the OEM warning.




my solution:






more info here:

Battery Charging - Main Battery Chassis Point -

Battery Charging - Main Battery Earth Point - so weve all be told NOT to bridge out the battery monitor on the neg side of the battery when charging it. This is so the ECM can correctly gauge the SOC (state of charge) of the starter battery by monitoring the current flow in and out of the...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Ayjay]

@Dellmassive. Thanks for the advice on earthing - I don't think I'm too concerned as I only ever plug a bike rack into the tow bar electrics socket (ie. it's only the LED lights the rack that draw power from it). I will however take your advice and move the cables but that's next weeks problem for now. Did you have anything to say about the other questions that I posed earlier today at post #673 please? Advice on everything including the meaning of life would be appreciated but I'm particularly interested in the real world implications of using the Ctek D250SE to charge the Renogy Smart 100Ah in terms that a fool like me can understand.
Again, cheers.

 

[Dellmassive]

@Dellmassive. Thanks for the advice on earthing - I don't think I'm too concerned as I only ever plug a bike rack into the tow bar electrics socket (ie. it's only the LED lights the rack that draw power from it). I will however take your advice and move the cables but that's next weeks problem for now. Did you have anything to say about the other questions that I posed earlier today at post #673 please? Advice on everything including the meaning of life would be appreciated but I'm particularly interested in the real world implications of using the Ctek D250SE to charge the Renogy Smart 100Ah in terms that a fool like me can understand.
Again, cheers.

@Ayjay

the CTEK D250SE will be absolutely fine and charge your Renogy Lithium with no issues.

its just not my personal favourite.

if the van gets used often and is a daily driver, you will have no issues with you 12v system.

 

[Ayjay]

@Dellmassive. Again thanks. The van will never be a daily driver but I do tend to keep it plugged into the EHU on the drive whenever it's parked up. Decision made (I think!) I'll fit the Ctek and keep life uncomplicated - I don't like complicated! Have a good Saturday night.

 

[Pauly]

Just been scanning some renogy bits as been debating one for a while and see there is currently yet another sale on their website !

Looks like a one day only deal where you can add the BT module and the renogy one monitoring whatsit for a £1, so if you use the member referral link for 6% discount then you can get the smart battery with monitoring for £376

I can get you a discount at Renogy United Kingdom

Not sure how useful the monitoring screen really is ? guess its scenario dependant but if you thinking of buying a renogy lithium its a good price just for the battery and BT module so the screen is pretty much free