Clunk clunk clunk

[Cuiken]

Last summer our van started making some rotten clunking noises on uneven road surfaces (speed bumps were fine).

No surprise then that the drop links had failed. Local garage fitted some new ones and all was good.

Three momths later, clunking returned. Local garge took a look and noted that the passenger side drop link had already failed again. Replaced under warranty.

Come January and the clunking was back again. At this point I realised we had a bust front spring and tired shocks so we opted to replace springs, shocks top mounts etc all round. The garage also damaged the driver's side drop link while changing the shocks so that was renewed too.

So, pretty much an entirly new front end and yet, clunking is worse than ever..... I took the drop links off myself last weekend and they seemed fine but I wasn't sure about the ARB bushes.

My plan is to remove the drop links again this weekend, tie off the ARB and take it for a test drive. If the noise is gone then I guess it's the ARB bushes or, somehow, the drop links again. Given the hassle in doing this, I've ordered a set of Meyle HD drop links to fit since the ones the garage are using don't seem to be top quality.

Can anyone suggest any other checks I might want to do while I've got the van up on the jacks?

Thanks.

 

[Burner]

What replacement shocks and springs did you get?

 

[Cuiken]

We went for 40mm drop, Koni shocks and Technica springs from @CRS Performance . I'm not close to CRS though so had them fitted by our local garage.

 

[Burner]

Maybe have a word with CRS, see if he’s seen the problem before, you never know.

 

[Cuiken]

Always happy to take input from Steve @CRS Performance but the shocks are very close to OEM form factor so I can't imagine an issue with them.

The olny thing I can think that could have gone wrong is fitting. Perhaps they aren't sufficiently tightened at the top mount. Only way to check would be to remove the wipers and skuttle and take a look. Bit of a PITA (and I'd hope the garage would be more competent than that) but I guess I'll need ot get round to it if I can't isolate any other issues.

Just polling for any other checks/common issues that people are aware of.

 

[CRS Performance]

Always happy to take input from Steve @CRS Performance but the shocks are very close to OEM form factor so I can't imagine an issue with them.

The olny thing I can think that could have gone wrong is fitting. Perhaps they aren't sufficiently tightened at the top mount. Only way to check would be to remove the wipers and skuttle and take a look. Bit of a PITA (and I'd hope the garage would be more competent than that) but I guess I'll need ot get round to it if I can't isolate any other issues.

Just polling for any other checks/common issues that people are aware of.

The common noises on the front suspension are , drop links , top mounts , D bushes on the ARB , We dont use cheaper HD parts Drop links and mounts as we found them to be quite unreliable . The best drop link is Lemforder from E C P as good as the factory ones and half the price . The common drop link issue isnt a faulty parts it is simply movement in the mounting on to the shock , Picture showing how the D L has been moving up and down in the mounting .

removing the Drop links is a test we also do . you can just remove one side as there is no force on the ARB if not connected both sides , you dont need to tie up the arm then as it cant go anywhere .

 

[Cuiken]

Thanks Steve. Great advice there. I'd ordered the Meyle HD drop links as I'd read good things elsewhere. Sounds like this may not have been 100% accurate. Either way, I'll have them if I need to swap a part out.

Good tip on only removing the drop link on one side. Makes sense and save a bit of hassle.

I'll have a go at this and see what I learn.

 

[Insert Coin]

Make sure the drop links are torqued up correctly, mine worked loose twice due to incorrect settings.

 

[TeamD]

Your situation is almost identical to mine, including the new Koni setup from CRS. I had new top mounts fitted today but still sounds terrible!

Just to recap, my van has had:
New koni suspension fitted all round by CRS
New drop links - local garage
New top mounts - local garage
New ARB front bushes - local garage

Still sounds and feels dreadful at low speeds especially when turning over speed bumps, pot holes in carparks etc

Also get clunks sometimes when changing between forwards and reverse

Its driving me mad and really taking the shine off the a van I’ve only had 8 weeks!

(I won’t mention the new Egr valve and cooler I’ve just had fitted - that’s another story!)

Any advice or tips anyone??

Thanks in advance

 

[paddy26]

To isolate similar issue before I jacked up(+ axle stand) one side and then created a lever under the wheel using a block and a plank of wood. Moving the plank up and down I was quickly able to identify a worn top mount. This would also work to identify loose droplink.

 

[Cuiken]

I managed to do a couple of jobs yesterday.

Disconnected drop link on one side and test drove. Still clunking badly.

Jacked up and removed the wheel on each side. Used a second jack to move the suspension arm up and down. Didn’t detect any movement at the top mount. To be fair, the top mounts etc are all brand new so I’d only expect movement if they had been incorrectly fitted.

Really confused now. Can’t think what else might be wrong but it sounds dreadful going over small bumps at low speeds. It’s also started clunking over speed bumps now.

The only thing I can think to look at next is to double check the top mounting nuts on the front struts (just in case they were under tightened) but I’ll need to find time to remove the wipers and skuttle to get to them.

If anyone has any other ideas, it’d be great to hear them.

 

[Cuiken]

Your situation is almost identical to mine, including the new Koni setup from CRS. I had new top mounts fitted today but still sounds terrible!

Just to recap, my van has had:
New koni suspension fitted all round by CRS
New drop links - local garage
New top mounts - local garage
New ARB front bushes - local garage

Still sounds and feels dreadful at low speeds especially when turning over speed bumps, pot holes in carparks etc

Also get clunks sometimes when changing between forwards and reverse

Its driving me mad and really taking the shine off the a van I’ve only had 8 weeks!

(I won’t mention the new Egr valve and cooler I’ve just had fitted - that’s another story!)

Any advice or tips anyone??

Thanks in advance

Two things occured to me today when I was pondering my clunk. @TeamD, I remembered your comment regarding clunking when changing forward/reverse.

To me, this would indicate worn bushes in the wishbones. Or, worst case, an issue with the universal joints in the drive shafts. Has your local garage checked these?

Cheers.

 

[TeamD]

Two things occured to me today when I was pondering my clunk. @TeamD, I remembered your comment regarding clunking when changing forward/reverse.

To me, this would indicate worn bushes in the wishbones. Or, worst case, an issue with the universal joints in the drive shafts. Has your local garage checked these?

Cheers.

It’s back in with garage again on Monday.

It’s literally getting worse, I now have a clunk/pop sound when stationary and turning steering wheel all the way to the left clunk, then all the way to the right clunk or pop sound.

I think I’m going to have to take another 2hr drive back down to @CRS Performance to see if they can help.

 

[Cuiken]

It’s back in with garage again on Monday.

It’s literally getting worse, I now have a clunk/pop sound when stationary and turning steering wheel all the way to the left clunk, then all the way to the right clunk or pop sound.

I think I’m going to have to take another 2hr drive back down to @CRS Performance to see if they can help.

Please do report back if/when you figure it out. Lot's of similarities to our van's behavior.

 

[TeamD]

Please do report back if/when you figure it out. Lot's of similarities to our van's behavior.

Will do

 

[Cuiken]

I spent 5 hours tinkering with the van yesterday including going back to the garage that fitted the shocks for me. Things I learned:

1. The garage used the incorrect nut in location 9 below.



The correct VW OEM part looks like this and is ~16mm tall:


The part the garage used (despite instructions) was the standard one that comes with the Koni shocks. It is ~11mm tall.

2. Aside from the incorrect nut being used, the passenger side was otherwise correctly installed. On the driver's side however, they had failed to tighten the final nut (11 above) at all. It was only finger tight .

So, I figured one or both of these must be the issue. I bought a pair of the correct nuts for location 9 and reassembled everything. Dissapointingly, it made no difference at all . Still clunking madly.

Additionally, when using the 16mm OEM nuts in location 9, I noticed that the top plate (7 in the diagram) was not in contact with the top of the shock tower. It sat ~3mm above the top of the tower meaning that the whole shock assembly would drop down when the van is jacked up. I've tried to indicate the gap on the dagram below:



I'm not sure if this is intended so I tried using the 11mm nut on both sides and also the 11mm nut with a washer to allow just a small amount of compression of the top plate when the nut was tightended down. Neither of these alternative installations made any difference to the clunking. In the end I have opted for the 11mm nut plus washer just to ensure the shock remains 'seated' in the tower when the van is jcaked up (rather than dropping down by 3mm and allowing the top mount to lose contact with the shock tower).

As suggested by @paddy26, I made a lever with a log and a scaffolding pole to move the wheel up and down when the van was jacked up off the ground. I couldn't find any obvious cluncks or unwanted movement in the suspension by doing this (though it definitely highlighte that the shock moved around int he tower when using the OEM 16mm nut).

So, I reamin none the wiser and also dissapointed by the workmanship of my local garage. Not a very succesful day.

At this point I have replaced:

• Springs and shocks
• Top mounts
• Thrust bearings
• Top plates (item 7)
• All mounting nuts and washers
• Drop links (checking for movement as highlighted by Steve @CRS Performance )

I've also dismantled and checked the installation and found no obvious problems aside from those described above.

Anyone got any further ideas? This is really becoming a PITA. All I can think of now is:

• Wishbone bushes
• Lower ball joint
• CV joint

None of these three look to be in particularly bad nick and, when checking with a pry bar, I don't see sufficient movement in the wishbone bushes for it to get anywhere near contacting the subframe.

I'm frankly at a bit of a loss.

 

[Paynewright]

Have you got an old phone you could tie wrap under the wheel arch and film the components under suspicion? A certain movement associated with the noise might give a clue?

One other thing I’ve read about on front end noise relates to some bushes between the subframe and chassis. There was only one thread/post IIRC. Perhaps look for signs of movement on the subframe fixings?

Vehicle noises that shouldnt be there are F annoying. I have a dash rattle on my other car thats driving me mad. I’ve stripped out everything I can (air bag, radio, glove box, gauge binnacle..) but its still there. Next job is full dash out! If I apply pressure to the dash the rattle stops.

Anyway, I digress! I feel for you!!

Ian

 

[Phil Blackburn]

I spent 5 hours tinkering with the van yesterday including going back to the garage that fitted the shocks for me. Things I learned:

1. The garage used the incorrect nut in location 9 below.

View attachment 233314

The correct VW OEM part looks like this and is ~16mm tall:
View attachment 233315

The part the garage used (despite instructions) was the standard one that comes with the Koni shocks. It is ~11mm tall.

2. Aside from the incorrect nut being used, the passenger side was otherwise correctly installed. On the driver's side however, they had failed to tighten the final nut (11 above) at all. It was only finger tight .

So, I figured one or both of these must be the issue. I bought a pair of the correct nuts for location 9 and reassembled everything. Dissapointingly, it made no difference at all . Still clunking madly.

Additionally, when using the 16mm OEM nuts in location 9, I noticed that the top plate (7 in the diagram) was not in contact with the top of the shock tower. It sat ~3mm above the top of the tower meaning that the whole shock assembly would drop down when the van is jacked up. I've tried to indicate the gap on the dagram below:

View attachment 233316

I'm not sure if this is intended so I tried using the 11mm nut on both sides and also the 11mm nut with a washer to allow just a small amount of compression of the top plate when the nut was tightended down. Neither of these alternative installations made any difference to the clunking. In the end I have opted for the 11mm nut plus washer just to ensure the shock remains 'seated' in the tower when the van is jcaked up (rather than dropping down by 3mm and allowing the top mount to lose contact with the shock tower).

As suggested by @paddy26, I made a lever with a log and a scaffolding pole to move the wheel up and down when the van was jacked up off the ground. I couldn't find any obvious cluncks or unwanted movement in the suspension by doing this (though it definitely highlighte that the shock moved around int he tower when using the OEM 16mm nut).

So, I reamin none the wiser and also dissapointed by the workmanship of my local garage. Not a very succesful day.

At this point I have replaced:

• Springs and shocks
• Top mounts
• Thrust bearings
• Top plates (item 7)
• All mounting nuts and washers
• Drop links (checking for movement as highlighted by Steve @CRS Performance )

I've also dismantled and checked the installation and found no obvious problems aside from those described above.

Anyone got any further ideas? This is really becoming a PITA. All I can think of now is:

• Wishbone bushes
• Lower ball joint
• CV joint

None of these three look to be in particularly bad nick and, when checking with a pry bar, I don't see sufficient movement in the wishbone bushes for it to get anywhere near contacting the subframe.

I'm frankly at a bit of a loss.

I feel your pain going through exactly the same. My top mounts failed and I found as you did the installer had used the incorrect nuts.
Changes the mounts, correct nuts, didn’t change the top plates (but have ordered some anyway) but did the top nut, changed longer drop rods as I’m on air, changed lower arm bushes front and rear for polly bushes (does feel better) and still got the knock.
As you noticed the top plate sits around 5mm above the turret and I have no idea why and apart from doing what you have done with a shallower nut I don’t know what else to do.
Had it all apart 4-5 times now and my mate down at my local garage looked it over when he did the bushes for me, nothing obvious.
It’s definitely got some movement somewhere as I’m getting tyre wear on the inner side.

 

[Phil Blackburn]

This is the gap on mine,

 

[Cuiken]

Thanks for those posts.

Especially reassuring to see that the top plate on yours @Phil Blackburn looks the same as mine. I was worried something was incorrectly installed or the top mounts had somehow been crushed by the installer using the wrong nut.

Forgot to add in my summary that I still have the clinking sound with the ARB disconnected on one end so fairly sure it can’t be the ARB bushes.

That really only leaves me with CV joint, wishbone bushes or lower ball joints.

@Paynewright, I saw that thread on engine mounts too but the visible ones at least look good. I doesn’t seem to be a come failure point either. That said, how do you go about checking them properly?

I like the camera idea but I don’t have anything ‘disposable’. A magnetic go pro would probably be ideal. Interesting excuse to buy one