Van Speed Limit?

[Thogg]

 

[Phibbo]

@keeffe
With due respect, I disagree.

1. I am ex traffic police (15yrs) but always happy to be corrected.

2. As long as the vehicle has the appropriate permanent fitments, (bed table etc etc) car speed limits apply irrespective of the group shown on the log book.

3. Getting stopped by a cop on the street for driving too quickly shouldn’t be a problem, as usually it’s Traffic cops that do speed enforcement and tend to know their stuff. It’s other non traffic officers that might need persuading. Hence a copy of the letter comes in handy.

4. If the process is automatic, say with a Gatso camera, then the camera is likely to check vehicle type with the DVLA data base. NB The DVLA themselves readily concede that it’s how the vehicle is configured that determines the speed limit, and NOT their database which uses external appearance as a definition.
Unfortunately if your speed trips an automatic camera ie a GATSO type camera, think gantry or fixed roadside cameras, you may likely be (wrongly) issued with a NIP automatically, and then it’ll be up to you to defend - usually with pics and invoices of the conversion. There have been cases where ignorant drivers have just pleaded guilty and have been convicted

4. It wasn’t my letter but one I copied (off here??)

Hi! Just for clarity. Just taken purchase of a T6.1 transporter T30 van. We’ve converted it into a camper van - RIB bed, side kitchen and cupboards, poptop roof, side windows, hatchback windowed rear door, roof solar panel. Everyone advises that’s it’s a waste of time trying to get the DVLA to recognise it as a camper BUT as far as legal speed limit is concerned because of its obvious change of use we can stick to the car speed limits of 70 for a dual carriageway etc and be ok? - although we might have to prove our case occasionally with photos? Am I understanding your advice correctly? Thanks!

 

[Oldrat]

Yes
It would be wise to print out that DVLA letter that was posted up earlier in the thread and keep it under your sun visor.

 

[Keefff]

My thoughts: The speeds limits are set by the Dept of Transport (using their own descriptions) and enforced by the Police. The DVLA register vehicles using manufacturer descriptions. Dept of T and DVLA don’t speak to each other(?). Motor caravan is a description for higher speed limits that has previously crossed mapped to both depts and happy conversion drivers have enjoyed this benefit. Now the DVLA are not using motor caravan as a description, unhappy conversion drivers are now holding a DVLA letter (note DVLA don’t set the speed limits!). ‘I suspect’ in a court of law anyone with N1 Light Goods Vehicle stamped on their V5 should obey the lower speed limits and will trigger cameras at lower limits. Over to you and the letter to discuss your way out of it. Just my thoughts. (I am chilling at Camper speeds#smileyface)

 

[moomin-j]

My thoughts: The speeds limits are set by the Dept of Transport (using their own descriptions) and enforced by the Police. The DVLA register vehicles using manufacturer descriptions. Dept of T and DVLA don’t speak to each other(?). Motor caravan is a description for higher speed limits that has previously crossed mapped to both depts and happy conversion drivers have enjoyed this benefit. Now the DVLA are not using motor caravan as a description, unhappy conversion drivers are now holding a DVLA letter (note DVLA don’t set the speed limits!). ‘I suspect’ in a court of law anyone with N1 Light Goods Vehicle stamped on their V5 should obey the lower speed limits and will trigger cameras at lower limits. Over to you and the letter to discuss your way out of it. Just my thoughts. (I am chilling at Camper speeds#smileyface)

And the whole speed limit discussion comes full circle again...

 

[JOG]

And the whole speed limit discussion comes full circle again...

....rinse and repeat...!

 

[andvan]

Some great info on this thread. Hadn't really considered all of this previously. Will be printing off the letter as certainly won't do any harm as I can't see me holing back below car speed limits.

 

[Tomzo]

50 single carriageway
60 dual carriageway
70 motorway

any goods vehicle that is not car derived suffers the reduced limit on main roads
I know someone who got done for 72 on a dual carriageway in a transit connect, moaned at only being 2 mph over and copper said no 12 over theres your 3 points

HMRC think it’s a car

 

[Thogg]

....rinse and repeat...!

I kinda give up on this thread! I can’t do any more than post an actual email thread with evidence, plus the actual reply from the safety camera partnership that issued the notice of intended prosecution in the first place, that shows them cancelling the notice on the basis that the evidence provided satisfies them that the vehicle in question is dual purpose and thus is subject to the higher (car) speed limits!
Still people insist on talking about N1 and what the courts may or may not do!
If your vehicle is dual purpose. It’s subject to car speed limits.

 

[Insert Coin]

Unfortunately your post won’t stop camera vans from continuing to issue tickets to van drivers as false positives.

Even this ‘paid for’ advert is blurring the issue - Isuzu's D-Max is UK's fastest pick-up & is smarter, stronger, safer and faster

When I took my T32 in for its first mot, the guy was like I think it needs a class 7, then after 20 minutes of talking to someone (at DVSA?) eventually does it under a class 4.

There are just too many grey areas, I try and stick to 60 where I can.

 

[Thogg]

Unfortunately your post won’t stop camera vans from continuing to issue tickets to van drivers as false positives.

Even this ‘paid for’ advert is blurring the issue - Isuzu's D-Max is UK's fastest pick-up & is smarter, stronger, safer and faster

When I took my T32 in for its first mot, the guy was like I think it needs a class 7, then after 20 minutes of talking to someone (at DVSA?) eventually does it under a class 4.

There are just too many grey areas, I try and stick to 60 where I can.

This sadly is true enough. However having the knowledge to successfully get incorrectly issued NIPs cancelled is a start. I had 2 in 3 weeks. So without this knowledge I’d be 6 points up and £200 lighter.

 

[Insert Coin]

Oh I agree, challenge them all the way, don’t make it easy for them.

 

[James Batten]

So got sent this today to state a change in vehicle class to van with windows. Such a confusing subject but does that now mean I can drive at car speed limits?

 

[Andy Short]

Afraid not. As a van- with- windows it is 60mph maximum on any road with a 70 limit.
Look on the bright side. It will save quite a bit of fuel.....

 

[James Batten]

Afraid not. As a van- with- windows it is 60mph maximum on any road with a 70 limit.
Look on the bright side. It will save quite a bit of fuel.....

Andy, thanks. Another newbie question does that include motorways also?

 

[Murdoch]

Who drives below 70 on a motorway ?

 

[Ali-G]

does that now mean I can drive at car speed limits?

Have you read the whole of this thread?
If you think your van qualifies as a “Dual Purpose Vehicle” then yes, you can drive at car speed limits, but you must prepare to challenge any NIP’s that are wrongly sent to you.

 

[James Batten]

Have you read the whole of this thread?
If you think your van qualifies as a “Dual Purpose Vehicle” then yes, you can drive at car speed limits, but you must prepare to challenge any NIP’s that are wrongly sent to you.

Thanks. Makes sense - it is dual purpose, it’s a fully converted campervan although dvla do not recognise the conversion - cheers

 

[Ali-G]

Thanks. Makes sense - it is dual purpose, it’s a fully converted campervan although dvla do not recognise the conversion - cheers

See post #541.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Afraid not. As a van- with- windows it is 60mph maximum on any road with a 70 limit.
Look on the bright side. It will save quite a bit of fuel.....

Unfortunately not quite the correct answer - this is a motor caravan and therefore car limits. ( It does not have to have motor caravan on the V5 - all detailed in this thread)