Too Many OBDii Faults For My Liking!

[mmi]

I have attached a auto scan again but as txt this time, which was taken after clearing the faults, attempting the battery coding and then running the engine for 10 minutes. I would appreciate any comments but I suspect it is the same results as before.

Yes, looks still the same. From the old data glimpses of your old tester it seemed like that the alternator is running in stand-alone mode thus the fault. Meaning there is disconnect between alternator and battery management (or engine control unit, need to verify how it is wired).

Anyways, the data from VCDS should tell us more.


--------------------------
I believe the video is using an older VCDS so it can be a bit confusing. Also some of the parts depend on the vehicle you're looking into.

This should work for the current one and T5/T6:

VCDS -> Select Control Module -> 61-Battery Management -> (Long) Adaptations - Channel 04
Hover the mouse over data fields to get the instructions what to type in (screenshot below).

Battery Type is defined under 61-Battery Management - Coding.... Byte 02:

Then Exit.... Do it!

Anyways, we'll see how/if it's done successfully in blockmap-data.

PS. Meanwhile you could have a dry run on some VCDS functions, actually almost all of the above --> Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour
Although the battery adaptation is not there but the same principles apply.

 

[Grim Reaper]

It looks like your battery type has coded correctly.
Under Module 61, you have
Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840) Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
Part No SW: 7H0 907 534 HW: 7H0 937 090
Component: Batt.regelung H75 0725
Serial number: 0671 260142655
Coding: 030B1A73 <-----------------------------------------HERE!
Shop #: WSC 09999 999 999999
VCID: 6B83C0FC638D69CF0C5-803E

Which is the same as mine (with the same AGM battery)
You just need to go into the 'Long Adaptation' of the same 61 module, choosing 'Battery Information/Replacement' from the drop down menu, mine is now 095 VA0 7025244367 , you could set it exactly the same, it will work just as well. (note all the 0's are zero's) 095 = 95Ah, VA0 = Varta, the 7025244367 is only used if you should change one battery out for an identical one in the future, (it's supposed to be the serial number of the battery but the Bosch didn't have one that I could see so I used the last 10 digits off the barcode instead) in our cases you would just change one digit and the van then knows you have changed the battery for a new one of the same type/capacity

 

[BrianK]

Yes, looks still the same. From the old data glimpses of your old tester it seemed like that the alternator is running in stand-alone mode thus the fault. Meaning there is disconnect between alternator and battery management (or engine control unit, need to verify how it is wired).
Anyways, the data from VCDS should tell us more.
--------------------------
I believe the video is using an older VCDS so it can be a bit confusing. Also some of the parts depend on the vehicle you're looking into.

This should work for the current one and T5/T6:

VCDS -> Select Control Module -> 61-Battery Management -> (Long) Adaptations - Channel 04
Hover the mouse over data fields to get the instructions what to type in (screenshot below).

Battery Type is defined under 61-Battery Management - Coding.... Byte 02:

Then Exit.... Do it!

Anyways, we'll see how/if it's done successfully in blockmap-data.

PS. Meanwhile you could have a dry run on some VCDS functions, actually almost all of the above --> Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour
Although the battery adaptation is not there but the same principles apply.

OK will do thanks mmi

 

[BrianK]

It looks like your battery type has coded correctly.
Under Module 61, you have
Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840) Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
Part No SW: 7H0 907 534 HW: 7H0 937 090
Component: Batt.regelung H75 0725
Serial number: 0671 260142655
Coding: 030B1A73 <-----------------------------------------HERE!
Shop #: WSC 09999 999 999999
VCID: 6B83C0FC638D69CF0C5-803E

Which is the same as mine (with the same AGM battery)
You just need to go into the 'Long Adaptation' of the same 61 module, choosing 'Battery Information/Replacement' from the drop down menu, mine is now 095 VA0 7025244367 , you could set it exactly the same, it will work just as well. (note all the 0's are zero's) 095 = 95Ah, VA0 = Varta, the 7025244367 is only used if you should change one battery out for an identical one in the future, (it's supposed to be the serial number of the battery but the Bosch didn't have one that I could see so I used the last 10 digits off the barcode instead) in our cases you would just change one digit and the van then knows you have changed the battery for a new one of the same type/capacity

Thanks
Yes I could see I had the coding changed OK.I had thought I managed to do the adaption as well, which I at least tried to do as you describe above but I guess it didn't work!

 

[Loz]

and rename the files as .TXT-file (as The Forum doesn't like .CSV files ).

It does

 

[BrianK]

Hello

Not sure this is looking good chaps! See attachments

I'm also still not sure that the battery adaption worked correctly again even though I followed what grim reaper says above by the letter!

 

[mmi]

I think the failed output tests prove that Battery Management/Monitor (J367) is not able to communicate with alternator. Besides that also red and orange fields below indicate the same (extracted from blockmap file).

Orange = conflicting values (see explanations further down).
Red = Missing values from alternator

Green = values prove that battery adaptation was succesful - aging factor values has been reset to max power/charge (will start gradually decrease over time). Also battery nominal capacity is set correctly. Per coding the battery type is now AGM as @Grim Reaper mentioned.



Group - Field

014-1 Generator Voltage (spec.) - "commanded voltage", see 018-1
018-1 Battery Voltage - deviates too much from 014-1 "commanded voltage", expected to be only about 0.3V less than 014-1.

018-2 Battery Current- charging (+pos), discharging (-neg)

014-2 Dynamic Field Signal - missing value
014-3 Exciter Current - missing value
016-1 Generator Identification - not OK

026-1 Generator Current - missing actual value, usually approx. 30 Amp
026-2 Generator Current Reserve - missing actual value, approx (140 Amp - Generator Current (026-1))
027-1 Start/Stop Coordinator- Impossible!

017-3 Battery Size - adapted OK
019-3 Battery Aging (Power) - reset to 100%
019-4 Battery Aging (Charge)- reset to 100%​

I'd like to say that prime suspect is LIN bus from alternator to Battery Management/Monitor unit.

I'd check that (if as T6) yellow/green wire from alternator (LIN connector pin 1) to (J367) Battery Management/Monitor (at battery negative terminal) is ok - just measure continuity with multimeter.
Unfortunately I don't have correct wiring diagram for your van so the colouring might be something else - e.g. in 2013 Amarok (very similar to T5) has yellow on the alternator end, and blue wire at J367 gadget by battery terminal but connections are the same.

Edit2: No.124/2_T5.1_Wiring_diagram_(2019.01)
Edit1: typos

 

[BrianK]

Thanks

Please see a picture of my negative terminal. Can you tell how to check the continuity in this case?

Am I right in saying to get to the alternator (if I need to) means the front coming off the van?

It could be as much as two months before I can get access to my driveway, currently it has a big trench in it The van is parked in a corner at my sons house and with a little space in his shed, I can carry things backwards and forwards and continue with installing the electrics.

But do you, or others, feel it will be ok continuing with instal of leisure batteries and Redarc unit and hopefully sorting this fault later on? I guess if not I can just leave the redraw disconnected from the starter battery or now.

 

[mmi]

At the battery it's easy - just disconnect the plug. At the alternator certainly a bit more challenging - on mine I can reach the connector at the back of alternator from top. However a bit more twiddling to disconnect the plug on that end. Perhaps you could have look with torch to see how it's on yours.

Anyways, the fault doesn't prevent/harm anything. The alternator just works "old-fashioned" way - as a not-so-smart alternator, keeping the voltage at steady 14.1 V which is just fine even for the battery.

Without self-diagnosing you wouldn't even be aware of the fault. As also VCDS shows, it's tagged as priority 2 = to be taken care of at next service.

Just continue doing the other things and wait for sunny and warm days for this challenge. Meanwhile perhaps worth to invest in T6Forum VIP membership to have access/request for the wiring diagram of your vehicle.

Anyways, keep posting how things progress

 

[BrianK]

Thanks

So should I just put one side of the multimeter on the unplugged yellow and the other to ground?

 

[mmi]

Thanks

So should I just put one side of the multimeter on the unplugged yellow and the other to ground?

You should measure continuity of yellow/green wire all the way from the plug at battery to the plug at alternator.

So one side of the multimeter on the unplugged plug yellow/green at battery and the other side on the unplugged plug yellow/green at the alternator.

 

[BrianK]

I guess there is no way to test just from the starter battery end to begin with? Definitely cant access my alternator from above, it might be possible from below but first I would have to remove the under engine cover.

I’m wondering if this means I shouldn’t connect ignition live to the Redarc for now, perhaps Grim Reaper has an opinion having installed one?

 

[Grim Reaper]

As mmi says, the alternator is still putting out charging current even though it appears not to be under the control of the ECU, the Redarc will still work either way.
To test the alternator comms you would require a scope to see if there is data on the lines to the ecu alternator and shunt, but you also need to know what to expect which may be more difficult.

 

[mmi]

I guess there is no way to test just from the starter battery end to begin with? Definitely cant access my alternator from above, it might be possible from below but first I would have to remove the under engine cover.

I can't see any other way to test the connection between alternator and the Battery Monitor. Actually I would trust the VCDS on this, as it couldn't command the alternator, there is a disconnect. It is obvious that 61-Battery Monitor (at battery) communicates with BCM - that's where the other end of the LIN bus goes - as this works it means there is can't be short to ground on the bus.

To test the alternator comms you would require a scope to see if there is data on the lines to the ecu alternator and shunt, but you also need to know what to expect which may be more difficult.

Agreed. It's even more challenging as the BCM is on the same bus.

Actually, (as I believe there is a break on the bus) I would prepare a wire which I could connect from yellow/green at battery terminal to yellow/green at alternator plug (thus in parallel to original wiring). And then use VCDS to run the output tests again - to see if they pass then.

 

[Grim Reaper]

or disconnect plugs on the same bus and see if readings change.
You might get a reading that looks like voltage if you back probed the plug at the battery shunt with a digital meter, it would be meaningless though as all you are seeing is a square wave data stream pulsing which makes it appear to be a fluctuating voltage, but it would give an indication of continuity at least.
see if you get a similar reading with the plug disconnected, both on the plug and on the socket (even better if you could only take the green yellow wire out of the plug to test)
Have a watch of DiagnoseDan on you tube for some great diagnostic instructional videos on what can go wrong with canbus networks.

 

[BrianK]

Thanks once again chaps

I guess it is worth just checking the plug and connection to begin with where it goes into the shunt, those wires are very flimsy looking!

or disconnect plugs on the same bus and see if readings change.

You might get a reading that looks like voltage if you back probed the plug at the battery shunt with a digital meter, it would be meaningless though as all you are seeing is a square wave data stream pulsing which makes it appear to be a fluctuating voltage, but it would give an indication of continuity at least.

see if you get a similar reading with the plug disconnected, both on the plug and on the socket (even better if you could only take the green yellow wire out of the plug to test)

Have a watch of DiagnoseDan on you tube for some great diagnostic instructional videos on what can go wrong with canbus networks.

Seems worth a go, I will try when next over there and try the you tube too

 

[BrianK]

As mmi says, the alternator is still putting out charging current even though it appears not to be under the control of the ECU, the Redarc will still work either way.
To test the alternator comms you would require a scope to see if there is data on the lines to the ecu alternator and shunt, but you also need to know what to expect which may be more difficult.

I am only concerned that as I intended to connect the blue wire to ignition (already done as you and I discussed above) then if I still have this issue whether I should consider leaving the blue wire disconnected or whether it won't cause an issue. Extract from appropriate part of Redarc operating instructions below

2.3 Input Trigger Settings (BLUE Wire)

The BLUE wire is used to select between the Standard turn ON trigger settings and the Low Voltage turn ON trigger settings (suitable for Variable Voltage and Smart Alternators) on the Vehicle Input.

Standard trigger settings: Leave the BLUE wire disconnected.
This will set the trigger settings to 13.2V turn ON and 12.7V turn OFF for a 12V installation or 26.4V turn ON and 25.4V turn OFF for a 24V installation.

Low Voltage trigger settings: Connect the BLUE wire to the Vehicle Ignition.
This will set the trigger settings to 12.0V turn ON and 11.9V turn OFF whenIgnition is ON for a 12V installation or 24.0V turn ON and 23.8V turn OFF when Ignition is ON for a 24V installation.

 

[Grim Reaper]

If you don’t want the redarc to work, disconnect the positive lead feed in from the starter battery (I fitted the anderson connectors in the engine bay for this reason) and it will not be able to take any current from the starter battery.
Just remember to disconnect/reconnect the leisure and starter batteries in the right order.
Always connect the leisure battery first before solar or starter battery inputs, and always disconnect the leisure battery last after solar or starter battery inputs.
The redarc does not like to have an open output on the leisure battery side while it has current sources connected. Some people have blown their units up not following this rule.

 

[BrianK]

Yes I understand that I can leave disconnected from the starter battery if I want (have also installed Anderson connectors suggested by yourself) but what I was referring to is if I have the ignition live connected (as per low volt set-up) but the alternator is producing 14v + (as per high volt set-up) could it cause me a problem?

And I didn’t know anything about this sequence of connecting/disconnecting the batteries so thank you very much for this
Does this come from Redarc themselves? Can you recall where if so? as knowing my memory I could do with printing it and sticking to my forehead

So to connect:
Leisure then Starter/Solar
And Disconnect:
Starter/Solar then Starter
Correct?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Almost, edit the last bit to Starter/Solar then Leisure.
Basically the DC/DC charger needs somewhere to output its current to (a bucket if you like)
If you were to connect the solar input (hosepipe in) before the leisure battery the DC/DC charger would be trying to pass the charge through but have nowhere to put it (water everywhere) and I have heard somebody damaged their charger because of this.
It is not explicit in the manual, but there is a warning led that comes on if connection to leisure battery is not there when an input is connected, it doesn’t warn what might happen if you don’t sort it out and disconnect the input asap so it doesn’t get a chance to break anything.
Just leave the blue wire disconnected (pull the fuse out) until you have the smart alternator fixed. It will work like it would if you didn’t have a smart alternator until then.