T6 OEM LED-headlight retrofit

[Loz]

No one is saying your wrong Dave, I for one don't go for anything that does not conform to regs.

But each will do as they see fit and take their own risks.
As with all aftermarket kit there is a grey area where the will/cost benefit to enforce technical infringement beyond that of the MOT is thin.

Country's like New Zealand simply rule that anything not supplied by the manufacturer is deemed a failure even if it improves original spec. but we have a slightly more tolerant market and we have to put up with it like it or not.

 

[T6 Dave]

No one is saying your wrong Dave, I for one don't go for anything that does not conform to regs.

But each will do as they see fit and take their own risks.
As with all aftermarket kit there is a grey area where the will/cost benefit to enforce technical infringement beyond that of the MOT is thin.

Country's like New Zealand simply rule that anything not supplied by the manufacturer is deemed a failure even if it improves original spec. but we have a slightly more tolerant market and we have to put up with it like it or not.

It is not a valid argument cost benefit to sell something that makes the vehicle contravene c&u regs.. For the last time.. mOT regs are NOT the same in authority! You cannot use them over c&u to satisfy C&U EVER.. There is NO grey area.. It HAS to conform to C&U..

Without c&u conformity the vehicle is not fit for use on the road. The vehicle can pass an mot, and still be unfit for use on the highway through non conformity with c&u regs!

In now willing to accept the no mod ever rule of Germany etc, where you need a fitting cert etc!

 

[Loz]

Not disagreeing with you..

 

[T6 Dave]

Good, as I seem to be arguing the toss with everyone to keep things right with little support, pointing out why this kit must have self levelling, and advising caution over the assumption the washers arnt needed ! Without my input would @Pauly have ordered the self levelling kit? Pass.. Hacked off with the bitching about something that has a huge impact on safety and also the image of this forum and the scene tbh with little thanks!

 

[Caravellet6]

It is up to @Pauly to make SURE of the rules and regs applicable to his kit.. I have put forward a possible reason for the headlights washer system, WITHOUT saying its needed, as Pauly needs to quote a documented reliable and authority for his due diligence, not the opinions here!

Self leveling I have proved is required, and quoted a source to him to check on and satisfy himself, rather than breach c & u by fitting a manual system!

Others do not appear to grasp it all, or the implications and quote lesser regs, I.e. MOT

Ecky thump this has got a bit lary, it might be a reason but like I said my Suzuki has damn good LED lights as well and no washers @Pauly if you can sell me a H7 kit I'll go and join @Polzeylad in the quiet corner of the forum!

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

I echo the comment about the bitching and sniping that occurs when safety and the legal obligation to maintain a vehicle's road legal status is raised when members are proposing to fit modifications that do not conform to legal standards.

All that is meant by pointing out deficiencies from standards is the vulnerability of the user/owner/converter to prosecution and cancellation of insurance with all that that implies.

So, if I may be blunt, stop acting like spoilt children being told no to sweeties. Also be prepared for a push back if you start an argument about it - reasoned discussion is acceptable, bullying is not.

Rant over and I am not expecting support for my views. However, all I would add is:

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE MESSAGE !


Edit. I seem to recall that there is a Forum Rule against encouraging breaking the law

 

[8balladdict]

 

[Keeff]

Just sell them for off road use only .Can they be used without the lower part of the DRLs as I just like the two lines under the LED bulbs.

 

[Pauly]

The three DRL/sidelights activate/deactivate together

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

Just sell them for off road use only .Can they be used without the lower part of the DRLs as I just like the two lines under the LED bulbs.

@Keeff, you might think that is feasible but it isn't because they are headlamps and not auxiliary lights so you would have to put the vehicle on a trailer to tow it to the off-road venue.

Any vehicle on the public highway has to conform to C&U Regs and Type Approval. It is difficult to see how the kit as developed so far can be offered for sale legally for off-road use.

It is legal to sell the LED Headlamps as replacements with the onus being on the purchaser to fit and use them legally as @Pauly does through the shop.

However, he is looking to develop a conversion kit, currently for his own vehicle, which is legal as long as when it is moved onto the public highway it conforms to C&U Regs and Type Approval.

Once developed it can only be offered for sale legally as a complete conversion kit so that the onus for C&U Regs and Type Approval for correct usage passes to the purchaser. But this is where things become complicated for the potential vendor and careful consideration has to be given to things like product liability, is it a DIY-capable fitment, does it need DVSA approval etc etc.

I am not naysaying @Pauly's sterling efforts but, because other Members perceive a potential upgrade route to LED lighting, there is undue pressure on Pauly to "produce the goods". Hence the efforts by some to point out the boundaries of the legal quagmire facing this potential development of a kit to be offered for sale. We are trying merely to prevent @Pauly falling foul of the law as he develops his installation in the goldfish bowl of a public forum.

 

[Keeff]

Sorry but you can sell car parts for off road use . I build cars for on and off road use and it's up to me if I drive it on the road . This forum is turning into a forum about the law not t6 s .
It's great reading about the LED conversion but how about another thread for the legal stuff.

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

Sorry but you can sell car parts for off road use . I build cars for on and off road use and it's up to me if I drive it on the road . This forum is turning into a forum about the law not t6 s .
It's great reading about the LED conversion but how about another thread for the legal stuff.

Sorry @Keeff, but the law and @Pauly's conversion are inextricably entwined, like it or not.

I would also draw attention once again to the Forum Rule against encouraging breaking the law.

 

[Chriswhit]

I appreciate people making members aware of the legal implications for certain modifications but at the end of the day it is up to the members of the forum to decide if they want to take the chance and use certain modifications on there vehicles. We all should have the chance to make choices wether legal or not , how many people break the speed limit , l am one for sure . I am certain most of the members have read comments made about the legalities but we should leave the decision to them as wether they want to use these mods .

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

@Chriswhit I don't disagree with anything that you have said above. The point being made is the difference between we the user choosing to use an item illegally and @Pauly developing and retailing a product that does not conform to the law. It is trying to ensure for his benefit that he does not fall foul as the penalties are entirely different.

 

[Loz]

Can we just agree on the points made and move on please?

I am fed up with threads being hijacked with over opinion. Guests reading all this will not see this very welcoming.

 

[8balladdict]

I appreciate people making members aware of the legal implications for certain modifications but at the end of the day it is up to the members of the forum to decide if they want to take the chance and use certain modifications on there vehicles. We all should have the chance to make choices wether legal or not , how many people break the speed limit , l am one for sure . I am certain most of the members have read comments made about the legalities but we should leave the decision to them as wether they want to use these mods .

Hear hear! This thread is becoming very unpleasant to read.....the facts have been pointed out, more than once. Now everyone can make an informed choice on what mods they want to pursue and they should be free to do so. I for one applaud @Pauly's work. Without people doing this kind of R&D, there would be no future development and we would all be driving round in the same boring standard vans. Personally, that's not what I want. Just saying.....enough is enough, surly!?

 

[Chriswhit]

@Chriswhit I don't disagree with anything that you have said above. The point being made is the difference between we the user choosing to use an item illegally and @Pauly developing and retailing a product that does not conform to the law. It is trying to ensure for his benefit that he does not fall foul as the penalties are entirely different.

I think Pauly is certainly intelligent enough to understand what you and Dave are saying but it's up to us members whether we make the decision to purchase items . We are all grown ups and entitled to make choices however to be perceived legal or not .

 

[T6 Dave's Dad]

Can we just agree on the points made and move on please?

I am fed up with threads being hijacked with over opinion. Guests reading all this will not see this very welcoming.

Your view, but why should I not push back when there is a concerted effort to naysayay the truth? As for hijacking the thread, the responses I have posted are strictly on message with the thread. Please reread my post above in support of @Pauly's work and explanation of the issues involved.

If my efforts to provide an overview of the issues of both safety and legality are not required then I will quite happily remove myself from the Forum.

I would also point out that I make similar comments in support of members that are getting a raw deal from VW and Dealers to assist them with getting a satisfactory outcome.[/QUOTE]

 

[8balladdict]

And yet it still continues.......


So anyway, weather was pretty crap today, wasn't it!

 

[PukkaT6]

And yet it still continues.......


So anyway, weather was pretty crap today, wasn't it!

Seems to be a trend forming