T6.1 Caravelle UK 8-seat options: mount 3rd captains seat centrally? Install bench seat rear-facing?

[caravelle_hopeful]

I'm buying a UK Caravelle LWB with the standard 7-seat setup of 2, 2, 3. Very occasionally I may want to have 8 seats, so am working out options.

From what I can tell, there are 3 options:
A) Buy another captains chair and mount on the central pair of rails in place of table. Seat is too wide to sit between existing captains chairs, so formation will be 2, 2, 1, 3. (downside: middle seat of bench will have v limited legroom; rear bench will have to be further back, reducing boot space) (saw this option suggested here)
B) Switch 2 captains chairs for an additional bench (downside: bench ridiculously heavy, annoying to move/store)
C) Switch front passenger seat to a double seat. (downside: not an easy switch for temporary upgrades)

I'm excluding option C as it sounds like more of a permanent change, so thinking through the other 2, I have 2 questions:

1. For option A, can the T6.1 Caravelle accept a captains seat mounted centrally i.e. on the middle rails (where the table normally runs)? Has anyone personally tried this?
2. For option B, can the T6.1 Caravelle bench be mounted rear-facing? Has anyone personally tried this? (in this scenario the layout would be 2, 3 (rear facing), 3 (front facing) - which would allow easier access to the 3rd row.

Obviously in all the above, legality/insurance Qs are separate - at the moment I'm just trying to understand if anyone has any experience with whether this is *physically* possible.

Thanks!

 

[Deaky]

The rails for the table are narrower then the chair rails So you can’t fit a single chair in the middle

You can’t fit the bench seat backwards.

Not sure if you could slide the bench right to the back and fit 2 chairs in front one behind the other on the side?

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

The rails for the table are narrower then the chair rails So you can’t fit a single chair in the middle

You can’t fit the bench seat backwards.

Not sure if you could slide the bench right to the back and fit 2 chairs in front one behind the other on the side?

Thanks - yes, I can see that now from pictures. But... what about the distance between the right hand rail of the left seat and the left hand rail of the right seat? Do you think you could fit the extra seat centrally using the rails pointed to in pink here? The distance (blue line) looks the same as the distance between the outside rails (red line).

 

[jayc001]

LWB caravelle can handle 2-2-2-3 layout just with rather small boot. I've seen pics of this layout and looks OK. I've recently changed from 9 seat Shuttle to 7 seat Caravelle and intend to get a couple more captains chairs to allow occaisional 9 seater option.

 

[Deaky]

Here’s the sizes

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

Here’s the sizes

View attachment 197447

Interesting, my maths suggests that the separation here would be 380mm as well? (in red)

 

[UVW_T6]

Okay, I tried putting a single seat centrally (thanks for the idea! @caravelle_hopeful)
The rail system does fit but it is very tight for legroom in my SWB - not really workable for the back row, and you have to sit a bit sideways on the outer singles.

That's with the central one as far forward as it can be.

Ignore the table - I didn't bother removing it for the test.
Hope that helps!!

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

Okay, I tried putting a single seat centrally (thanks for the idea! @caravelle_hopeful)
The rail system does fit but it is very tight for legroom in my SWB - not really workable for the back row, and you have to sit a bit sideways on the outer singles. View attachment 219180

That's with the central one as far forward as it can be.
View attachment 219181
Ignore the table - I didn't bother removing it for the test.
Hope that helps!!

Yes very helpful to know it works in a pinch!

 

[archersam]

How about putting the single between the bench and the two fronts? possible legroom issues for the singles I guess against the front seats

 

[UVW_T6]

It doesn't make much difference which configuration you use, you'll have legroom issues on more than one seat in a SWB. I'd be interested to know how much more room there is in a LWB.

 

[Deaky]

It doesn't make much difference which configuration you use, you'll have legroom issues on more than one seat in a SWB. I'd be interested to know how much more room there is in a LWB.

40cm

 

[UVW_T6]

Probably not enough to create two lots of legroom, then!

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

Switched the seats around for proof of concept:

9 seater here
8 seater here

There’s enough space for 4 rows in 9 seater mode with adult-ish legroom in each row, and with 8 seats (2, 1, 2, 3 configuration) you can get a decent sized boot as well at the cost of quite narrow legroom.

 

[archersam]

Nicely done and don't forget youll need to tell your insurers and technically you should update the v5 too - I would say insurers more important.

 

[MF15HER]

The Caravelle doesn’t have type approval for mounting a single seat in the centre rails, and doing so also means that passengers in the rear can’t safely egress the vehicle in an emergency which leaves you open to prosecution for carrying a load (passengers) in a dangerous manner.
Insurance would be void in the event of a collision I’d suspect.

 

[archersam]

I shared this the caravelle community on fb as I thought well it might be nice. Ha ha lots of haters on there for sure some of which probably on here or will now join.

Mostly about lack of egress/exit from the rear bench.

 

[roadtripper]

Do you have a reference for that @MF15HER or is it just a concern?

While I've never seen on official layout image with a centre seat I have seen it recommended in several places.

The seat is sitting in the same rails, not the table rails, just the centre pair. If that seat has approval for use anywhere along the 4 rails and either way around I don't see what difference mounting it on the central 2 rails has compared with an outer rail and a centre rail?

That's distinct from the access issues for other rows - which I noted on @caravelle_hopeful other thread (please only use one thread @caravelle_hopeful!)

And welcome to the forum

 

[MF15HER]

I think you’ve answered your own query, you’ve never seen it on any official layout images.. the vehicle has type approval for the seating in the rails provided. Whilst it may well fit in the rails the insurance underwriter would look at the manufacturers layout options and quickly ascertain that it doesn’t comply. Certainly the more serious issue is the lack of egress, however placing an additional seat in the rear goes hand in hand with the issue of egress, dangerous load and insurance compliance.
Yes it fits, is it safe and lawful to carry passengers in such a manner ? Questionable.

 

[roadtripper]

That's not what I asked though is it?

Raising a concern that it may not be within type approval is one thing and helpful as others may not have considered that and then do the research (or take the risk, which they are perfectly entitled to do)

Stating categorically that it isn't but not providing a reference is not helpful to the discussion, it just adds to the confusion.

If you don't have a reference I suggest you edit your post to clarify that it's your opinion to save future confusion.

 

[MF15HER]

Section 40A Road Traffic Act 1988

A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, causes or permits another to use a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when:-

a) The condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment; or

b) The purpose for which it is used; or

c) The number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried; or

d) The weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,

is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.

Mandatory endorsement of 3 penalty points. Unusually, the Court must also disqualify for at least 6 months if you have 1 or more previous convictions for the same offence within 3 years. An uplift of at least 25% is added to financial penalties for owner drivers or owner-companies.

For the non-endorsable offence of overloading, financial penalties increase to the penalty dependent upon the percentage of the overload.