Add 4th row to LWB Caravelle = 9 seats?

[caravelle_hopeful]

I have recently bought a 2020 LWB Caravelle and would like to get an extra pair of rear captains seats for occasional use - and to hopefully get the congestion charge exemption. It looks like there’s definitely space as you can see from the 4 row 8-seater in this video.

Does anyone know how this works legally? My V5 interestingly already says 8 seats despite it being a 7 seater. When I got insurance quotes it didn’t seem to make any difference whether I selected 7 or 9 seats.

So can I just add the seats, update the V5 and then insure it as 9 seats and be done? Or are there other hoops to jump through?

 

[roadtripper]

Do you have the license entitlement to drive a vehicle with more than 8 seats?

See also this post showing the possible arrangements:

Need to be able to take out the seats and replace them with the 3 seater

Good day all, while chatting about the Middle seats can I ask the Question - I have a Caravelle for the family but would like to grow the number of seats during the week. This is so that I can earn additional income Transporting school Kids to school. My plan is to find the Middle 2- or 3-seater...

www.t6forum.com

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

Do you have the license entitlement to drive a vehicle with more than 8 seats?

See also this post showing the possible arrangements:

Need to be able to take out the seats and replace them with the 3 seater

Good day all, while chatting about the Middle seats can I ask the Question - I have a Caravelle for the family but would like to grow the number of seats during the week. This is so that I can earn additional income Transporting school Kids to school. My plan is to find the Middle 2- or 3-seater...

www.t6forum.com

With a category B licence (the normal one) you can drive a 9-seater, right?

My understanding of the regs is that the "8 passenger seats" below is excluding the driver?

From Driving licence categories:

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997​

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) with up to 8 passenger seats.

You can tow a trailer that weighs up to 3,500kg MAM.

 

[BognorMotors]

We’ve never done this , but Are you looking at fitting them in front of the rear triple bench, so two rows of singles ? It will work but be tight. I see no problem especially if you update the logbook. Just remember some insurers will class that as minibus so your insurance could shoot up - although you’ve said you’ve checked this.

And Yes a standard licence takes you up to 9 seats inc driver, in response to the query above.

 

[Bav]

With a category B licence (the normal one) you can drive a 9-seater, right?

My understanding of the regs is that the "8 passenger seats" below is excluding the driver?

From Driving licence categories:

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997​

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) with up to 8 passenger seats.

You can tow a trailer that weighs up to 3,500kg MAM.

Your understanding is correct.

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

We’ve never done this , but Are you looking at fitting them in front of the rear triple bench, so two rows of singles ? It will work but be tight. I see no problem especially if you update the logbook. Just remember some insurers will class that as minibus so your insurance could shoot up - although you’ve said you’ve checked this.

And Yes a standard licence takes you up to 9 seats inc driver, in response to the query above.

Yes I was imagining a 2, 2, 2, 3 arrangement.

It would definitely be a bit legroom tight but this would be for carrying all my kids plus some of their friends. Then for longer trips I’d take out a pair of seats and drop it down to the standard 7 to get the big boot back. And the advantage of that is that the singles are (apparently) a just-about one-man job to remove!

 

[roadtripper]

Good point, license categories are pass+driver but DVLA is total seats.

 

[roadtripper]

And the advantage of that is that the singles are (apparently) a just-about one-man job to remove!

Having done mine a couple of times yes the singles can be done by one person, worth watching a couple of videos to see how folks do it as there are some tips to avoid damage.

They're not something you want to be putting in and out every day but if it's a couple of times a year for big holiday roadtrips it's fine.

The bench is a very different thing. I regard that as about as removable as the dash. Both will come out if I have to but I hope I never do...

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

May be useful for someone else in future: I just called Admiral who I'm already insured with to double-check, and they said that their general maximum for cars is 9 seats. There was no number of seats listed on their system for the Caravelle. I told them it was 7 and I was adding to, and they said they would note the 2 additional seats as an interior modification, but there was no additional premium to pay (just a £26 admin fee for a change in the policy). So it seems like as long as I can get the V5 updated (which seems relatively trivial based on other posts here) it'll be all sorted. Just need to find some seats that aren't ridiculously expensive now!

 

[Bav]

From an insurance viewpoint, now you've informed them of the 2 additional seats, there's no need to update the V5.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Yes I was imagining a 2, 2, 2, 3 arrangement.

It would definitely be a bit legroom tight but this would be for carrying all my kids plus some of their friends. Then for longer trips I’d take out a pair of seats and drop it down to the standard 7 to get the big boot back. And the advantage of that is that the singles are (apparently) a just-about one-man job to remove!

Yeah that would work, so long as the passengers have very short legs!

I've removed and put back in my single captain chairs many times - easily doable on your own but I wouldn't want to carry them more than 50ft or so. They're liftable by one person but they're still quite heavy.

Be aware also that there's 2 versions of the captain's seats, one made originally for the 2nd row which swivel round and one made for the rear row which don't swivel.

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

Switched the seats around for proof of concept:

9 seater here
8 seater here

There’s enough space for 4 rows in 9 seater mode with adult-ish legroom in each row, and with 8 seats (2, 1, 2, 3 configuration) you can get a decent sized boot as well at the cost of quite narrow legroom.

 

[roadtripper]

Interesting to watch as my Caravelle is broadly the same paint and trim as yours, slightly envious of your extra space and wondering how much harder it would make parking

I'd be wary of the 8 seat arrangement with a bench. In your mockup up without seats in the third row you can get access to row four but I think it would be very difficult with both seats in, especially if you needed people to leave in a hurry in an emergency. That's why the official 8 seat arrangement uses single seats.

I'd definitely take the under seat storage draw out of the singles to give a bit more legroom when you do the 9 seat.

I think you'd be better off doing 8 seats as the 9 seat arrangement but 2-1-2-3 or 2-2-1-3 and using the seat space as extra luggage space. Especially if it's things like bags that folks want with them.

We roadtrip in ours and you can get a surprising amount of useful storage between the front seats. Being SWB we run 2-2-3 but seats reversed train table style. Bench ends up about where you have it in the 8 mock-up but we have a kitchen pod. I can still get 6 18 litre Really Useful Boxes on top of the pod and then 10 or so barrel shaped soft bags stacked vertically - we extend the headrests and I then use bungee to hold the bags so they stay in when tailgate opens. Means I can pack enough for 6 for a week's holiday. We also use the useful space between the back to back row 1 and 2 chairs.

 

[archersam]

I added an extra set of brackets to the mid row and also a set to fourth row. Technically it means I could seat 10 in total if I swapped out my single to the double that I still have however that is now a minibus and so comes with a load of issues.

Gives me lots of variability.

2 up front
3 singles in any combo in the second row
Triple on the third row OR two of the middle mid row singles with built in belts in the third row (one either side)
Middle mid row single with built in belt on the fourth row.

 

[caravelle_hopeful]

I added an extra set of brackets to the mid row and also a set to fourth row. Technically it means I could seat 10 in total if I swapped out my single to the double that I still have however that is now a minibus and so comes with a load of issues.

Gives me lots of variability.

2 up front
3 singles in any combo in the second row
Triple on the third row OR two of the middle mid row singles with built in belts in the third row (one either side)
Middle mid row single with built in belt on the fourth row.

Interesting - is this in the UK Caravelle with rails? Or on the Transporter Shuttle?
When you say you added an extra set of brackets, do you mean additional rails? Would love to see a picture!

 

[archersam]

Interesting - is this in the UK Caravelle with rails? Or on the Transporter Shuttle?
When you say you added an extra set of brackets, do you mean additional rails? Would love to see a picture!

My bad this is a UK Shuttle - spent too much time in Europe these last weeks where its called a Caravelle

 

[FerrisBFW]

Having done mine a couple of times yes the singles can be done by one person, worth watching a couple of videos to see how folks do it as there are some tips to avoid damage.

They're not something you want to be putting in and out every day but if it's a couple of times a year for big holiday roadtrips it's fine.

The bench is a very different thing. I regard that as about as removable as the dash. Both will come out if I have to but I hope I never do...

you are not wrong in regard to the bench removal. Did it once with me and my two (12 yo) boys, luckily one is massive and strong as an Ox I bought some wheely dolly things from B&Q I think. Once out they then can be wheeled away'ish.