Skyline Aurora Pop-Top opening on motorway?

[B3N]

The absence of reports of any other roofs opening in this manner, versus quite a few reports of Skylines in just this one thread would suggest either that Skyline owners are peculiarly absent-minded or that the locking mechanism is prone to failure. Agreed, this evidence doesn't satisfy the threshold of "beyond reasonable doubt", but it is a prima facie case that any respectable company would seek to investigate.

…or (…the third option)… it hasn’t been installed properly.
I’ve a skyline aurora (which has been spot on in the 6months motorway driving I’ve had it) and can see that if installed correct it should be failsafe. I can also see that it would be very easy to not install it correctly in which case the catches would fail to do their job and the roof could open. My installer was well aware of all this and seemed meticulous in doing it right. Fingers crossed!

 

[Bav]

…or (…the third option)… it hasn’t been installed properly.
I’ve a skyline aurora (which has been spot on in the 6months motorway driving I’ve had it) and can see that if installed correct it should be failsafe. I can also see that it would be very easy to not install it correctly in which case the catches would fail to do their job and the roof could open. My installer was well aware of all this and seemed meticulous in doing it right. Fingers crossed!

Good point - shouldn't overlook the possibility of installer error, though I'd still hope the manufacturer would be inquisitive enough to investigate if they were getting multiple reports of issues.

 

[Creamytash]

My installer was an agent for Skyline right up to the week before he was to install my Skyline Aurora. He phoned me to say that he was no longer fitting Syline roofs because of repeated incidents of catches failing causing roofs blowing open on the move. He said if I still wanted him to fit a roof for me it would be of another manufacturer and of a traditional strap down fastening. I am so gratefull for his honesty and his attitude to customer care, I have not had any problems with my roof. I wrote a post on here about my experience to try and inform others about the repeated catch failings of Skyline roofs which as I expected was met with mixed reactions - that was over a year ago. A lot more Skyline roofs have blown open since then. Like I said in my post on the subject - you pays your money and you makes your chioce.

 

[sensiblejohn]

A update for anybody that is interested.

No further response from Skyline or the installer. Have tried calling both and have sent a further email with photos and videos today. Not sure why I'm not receiving the top end customer service that Skyline seem famous for!

I spent a bit more time investigating at the weekend, see photos and video links below.

My analysis / conclusion / assumptions:

The whole mechanism relies on 2 M6 bolts, see first photo, to hold the cam in position. These should have been fitted with threadlock, but don't appear to have been. They presumably worked loose, allowed for a bit of movement and air to get under the pop top, bending the cams and allowing the roof to open.

There is also significant 'play' in the main both of the latch.

Ultimately I would question whether this whole assembly is fit for purpose.





Passenger Cam 1

Passenger Cam 2

Drivers Cam 1

 

[sensiblejohn]

@sensiblejohn - for your part number E3-1410-091, try these:

VISE ACTION® Compression Latch, Large Size, 8 mm Square, Zinc Alloy, Chrome Plated, Bright, 37 mm (1.46 in) Grip

Southco’s VISE ACTION® Compression latches provide mechanical advantage, ensuring tight, robust vibration resistant door closure to seal out water and dust in the most strenuous applications. The smooth operation of the VISE ACTION® design aligns the cam behind the frame, then draws it straight...

southco.com

Product info:

https://files.southco.com/static/Literature/e3.en.pdf

Contact at Zygology:
View attachment 219956

Thanks!

Just spoke to Zygology, good news is a new latch is £25 and they are 10 minutes away from me. The bad news is that it's a 30 working day lead time!

 

[Heath1984]

A update for anybody that is interested.

No further response from Skyline or the installer. Have tried calling both and have sent a further email with photos and videos today. Not sure why I'm not receiving the top end customer service that Skyline seem famous for!

I spent a bit more time investigating at the weekend, see photos and video links below.

My analysis / conclusion / assumptions:

The whole mechanism relies on 2 M6 bolts, see first photo, to hold the cam in position. These should have been fitted with threadlock, but don't appear to have been. They presumably worked loose, allowed for a bit of movement and air to get under the pop top, bending the cams and allowing the roof to open.

There is also significant 'play' in the main both of the latch.

Ultimately I would question whether this whole assembly is fit for purpose.

View attachment 220609

View attachment 220611

Passenger Cam 1

Passenger Cam 2

Drivers Cam 1

View attachment 220610

Yeah something seriously wrong there, I'm going to check mine at the weekend while we're away. Thanks for sharing

 

[DXX]

These should have been fitted with threadlock, but don't appear to have been

In fairness to the installer it’s a Durlok flanged bolt that’s used and it shouldn’t need a liquid threadlocker providing it’s correctly seated. The overall design is a bag of sh!te so I would fit some straps asap regardless of who’s paying.

 

[sensiblejohn]

In fairness to the installer it’s a Durlok flanged bolt that’s used and it shouldn’t need a liquid threadlocker providing it’s correctly seated. The overall design is a bag of sh!te so I would fit some straps asap regardless of who’s paying.

Durlok bolt - I tend to agree... however the Skyline instruction video very clearly specified threadlock.

Skyline Aurora Installation Video

Bag of sh!te - I absolutely agree.

Would appreciate any photos of pop top roofs with webbing hold down straps, especially some I could retro fit easily... I will definately be doing this once i have worked out how as a back up!

 

[Shaun Witts]

I looked at Skyline, but the frequency of failure put me off and I have a strap-down roof.

When I investigate an incident, I am not satisfied with stopping at human error. A safe system makes it difficult by design for users to make a catastrophic error. Looking over the history of our fleet of vehicles on this site, we have roof failures which are almost all from one manufacturer, but broadly the same population of users.

Looking forward, we do the risk assessment. In this case, we have a hazard with a high impact (possible catastrophic roof failure), medium incidence (several reports just on this site) and low detectability (almost impossible to tell if latch is in fault condition). That gives a high risk we have to mitigate.

Relying on user behaviour of members of the public, I would argue, is not a good mitigation strategy. We could make it easier to latch every time (as done by Ford on their Model T doors), or make it obvious if not closed (dashboard indication on every vehicle door, or a strap dangling in your face) or less catastrophic failure (like a strap which has some security even if not fully tight).

There speaks a Safety Engineer!

 

[tolman]

Hello all, I am converting a 2020 plate T6.1 and have had my van booked in for some time now to have the pop up roof fitted(due to be done in a couple of weeks). I opted for the Skyline Aurora. However I have since been contacted by my installer(not naming names) who tells me that they are no longer installing the skyline Aurora roof due to recent problems with the roof opening up while driving on the motorway. I was told that this has happened to 12 vehicles so far and that it is the catches at the front failing, allowing the roof to pop open in the slip stream during motorway driving. I have not spoken to Skyline on this issue. I was told by my installer that so far, Skyline are not accepting any liability for this and are unwilling to acknowledge that there is a fault in the design. Does anyone on here know anything about this problem, has anyone heard of this happening or had it happen to them. I know that this is a contentious subject, I am not bashing Skyline but repeating what I was told by my installer for why they will not now fit the Aurora roof to my van.

This reply is a warning to all Aurora owners.
There are very many admirable aspects of our Aurora roof, however:
Our roof lifted on the N61 motorway near Narbonne in France this Sept. The Mistral is a notorious wind on this road and it was only medium at the time . There was a gunshot bang and the roof flew up, although of course with a bed fitted we could only guess what it was and luckily managed to get from the middle lane to the hard shoulder without incident. It was very scary!!
The front catches were definitely correctly closed at the time and when reset it happened again within 100yds. On further inspection it was clear that the catches barely overlapped the bar when 'secured' although we had driven for 2 years without incident.
For the next 4 weeks we travelled with a ratchet strap holding the roof through the door opening.
Back in England I took it to Skyline for repair and the manager eventually advised the mechanic to get two modified locking bars from the store. This bar is wider with slots to enable adjustment closer to the locating arm.
The work was carried out under warranty with no acknowledgement of a design fault, which of course there definitely is.
1. It is impossible to visually check for adequate closure without an endoscope.
2. Skyline now stock an adjustable locking bar which shows a problem potentially exists.
I STRONGLY ADVISE AURORA OWNERS TO REQUEST AN INSPECTION ASAP.

 

[Heath1984]

This reply is a warning to all Aurora owners.
There are very many admirable aspects of our Aurora roof, however:
Our roof lifted on the N61 motorway near Narbonne in France this Sept. The Mistral is a notorious wind on this road and it was only medium at the time . There was a gunshot bang and the roof flew up, although of course with a bed fitted we could only guess what it was and luckily managed to get from the middle lane to the hard shoulder without incident. It was very scary!!
The front catches were definitely correctly closed at the time and when reset it happened again within 100yds. On further inspection it was clear that the catches barely overlapped the bar when 'secured' although we had driven for 2 years without incident.
For the next 4 weeks we travelled with a ratchet strap holding the roof through the door opening.
Back in England I took it to Skyline for repair and the manager eventually advised the mechanic to get two modified locking bars from the store. This bar is wider with slots to enable adjustment closer to the locating arm.
The work was carried out under warranty with no acknowledgement of a design fault, which of course there definitely is.
1. It is impossible to visually check for adequate closure without an endoscope.
2. Skyline now stock an adjustable locking bar which shows a problem potentially exists.
I STRONGLY ADVISE AURORA OWNERS TO REQUEST AN INSPECTION ASAP.

I'm going to stick something that leaves an imprint on the underside of each catch to show how much overlap there is. I'll post photo's if it works

 

[sensiblejohn]

This reply is a warning to all Aurora owners.
There are very many admirable aspects of our Aurora roof, however:
Our roof lifted on the N61 motorway near Narbonne in France this Sept. The Mistral is a notorious wind on this road and it was only medium at the time . There was a gunshot bang and the roof flew up, although of course with a bed fitted we could only guess what it was and luckily managed to get from the middle lane to the hard shoulder without incident. It was very scary!!
The front catches were definitely correctly closed at the time and when reset it happened again within 100yds. On further inspection it was clear that the catches barely overlapped the bar when 'secured' although we had driven for 2 years without incident.
For the next 4 weeks we travelled with a ratchet strap holding the roof through the door opening.
Back in England I took it to Skyline for repair and the manager eventually advised the mechanic to get two modified locking bars from the store. This bar is wider with slots to enable adjustment closer to the locating arm.
The work was carried out under warranty with no acknowledgement of a design fault, which of course there definitely is.
1. It is impossible to visually check for adequate closure without an endoscope.
2. Skyline now stock an adjustable locking bar which shows a problem potentially exists.
I STRONGLY ADVISE AURORA OWNERS TO REQUEST AN INSPECTION ASAP.

Thanks for this, as a surveyor I have access to a borescope at work! An excellent idea and can't believe I didn't think of it previously to see how much the catches overlap.

I did receive a response from Skyline yesterday, coincidentally an hour after my post above with the videos and photos!

Their view is that the initial failure was probably due to the roof not being closed properly, and that "they would imagine" that the subsequent failures and damage were caused by the initial failure which was user error.

Based on my 'investigations' so far, I completely disagree with their conclusion and think that the failure is predominantly due to the catches not being fit for purpose. There is also the issue of the bolts not being installed with threadlock to prevent the bolts coming loose.

There is no damage to the M6 bolt or thread to suggest that it has pulled out due to excessive force being applied, it appears to have worked loose and allowed some movement and distortion of the head of the bolt and bending of the cam.

Skyline appear to have 'washed their hands' of this and advised that they will not sell or give me a replacement set of latches. Their only suggestion is that I return to the previous installer and pay for new latches to be installed!

I'm still waiting for a response from the installer, so I have a small amount of hope that they may sort this out...

The question is, do I sort this out myself, with a solution I'm happy with including 25mm webbing straps as a back up, or try to action a claim against Skyline and/or the installer, or both.

 

[drinfinity]

The question is, do I sort this out myself, with a solution I'm happy with including 25mm webbing straps as a back up, or try to action a claim against Skyline and/or the installer, or both.

8 bolts, 4 brackets, two straps and you have a secure roof this weekend.

Action a claim and you have months of frustration ahead and likely no improvement in the outcome.

 

[tolman]

8 bolts, 4 brackets, two straps and you have a secure roof this weekend.

Action a claim and you have months of frustration ahead and likely no improvement in the outcome.

Please share details of your roof strap system method. I'd certainly like to consider this for added security.

 

[drinfinity]

Please share details of your roof strap system method. I'd certainly like to consider this for added security.

The brackets bolt into the frame in the cutout over the cab, and into the roof. This van has hidden fixings built into the roof, but my old Reimo roof basically had coach bolts through from the outside.

 

[tolman]

Excellent photos - very useful
Thanks

 

[Creamytash]

I have to say that I agree with tolman as much ss it would stick in my craw to let Skyline swerve it's responsibility on this issue. If it were me, I would sort the securing of the roof with brackets & web straps myself but I would make Skyline the most written about, talked about and bad mouthed supplier of pop top roofs in the campervan world. My installer stated to me that he has stopped fitting Skyline roofs because of the number of incidents of the securing system failing while on the move and where this has happened, Skyline has passed the blame to the user or the installer. In the end I had an Alstops roof fitted with the traditional web strap securing method. I have been most happy with this roof and always confident thst it is secure and reliable when on the move often at motorway speeds. I am also grateful to my installer for his personal integrity.

 

[sensiblejohn]

Unfortunately I think you're right, it's probably a waste of time and best to just get it sorted and make sure I make as many people as possible aware of my issues!

Has anybody added straps like these to a skyline roof yet? If I'm the first I'd be surprised.

The steel frame around the opening will be a good fix point to the van, but not sure about how to fix to the roof shell in the correct position to get the straps to pull down. (I'm nervous about bolting through from the outside!) I might look at fitting a metal bar between the grab handle fixing points?

 

[Creamytash]

I first posted on this subject backnin Feb 2022 when I was booked in with an installer to have a Skyline opo up roof fitted. So the word has been out there for well over a year. Perhaps the topic has not been flagged up enough in the right places.

 

[Ayjay]

I might look at fitting a metal bar between the grab handle fixing points?

Personally, I'd be wary of that as you don't know what tolerances the handle fixings were designed to. The stress of simply pulling the roof down is likely significantly less than that required to fix them down securely with straps (at least if mine are anything to go by - but I do sometimes think that I give them too much wellie!).