Skyline Aurora Pop-Top opening on motorway?

[Woodyboy]

Run dsg and mk2golf,
I don’t understand what either of your points are. The title of the thread is aurora pop top opening on motorway. I have tried to be useful and shared my first hand experience of this happening. Just the facts, with photos to back up.
Neither of you have commented on which style of cam you have, are you aware there are two types ? You can see in the photos mine is the dog leg latch style. Which has a shorter cam. There is another with the shaft on the cam longer and a straight latch. It could simply be that one is better than the other. Maybe they don’t produce the one with the straight latch anymore.
I have one of these fitted on a £40k van and obviously don’t want to impact the resale value. But its easily fixed one way or another either bracing the dog leg latch or replacing the cams with the different style. Hoping that you never encounter the conditions to make it pop is up to each owner, but I hoped there might be some tech savvy people that would have something to contribute.

 

[RunDSG]

Apologies. You seem to have taken some offence. And worthwhile discussion requires multiple points of view. I feel that’s all we’ve done.

Anyhow, my cams aren’t the straight ones. Maybe it matters, maybe not. Either way, they’ve not bent one millimetre, and pull the roof down as firmly as day one.

Very pleased this threat exists, however. Nothing wrong with sharing knowledge and exercising caution.

 

[Woodyboy]

I managed to remove swing arm and straighten it up in a vice... but I will be getting it looked at tomorrow...
I must admit not the best design,and I've also seen that some people haven't had any issues with them

I have straightened mine in the vice. It works fine for now, also had it in with the installer last year and replaced both cams. But using the same kind again. It seems there are three different types. Which one do you have?

 

[Woodyboy]

Durlok bolt - I tend to agree... however the Skyline instruction video very clearly specified threadlock.

Skyline Aurora Installation Video

Bag of sh!te - I absolutely agree.

Would appreciate any photos of pop top roofs with webbing hold down straps, especially some I could retro fit easily... I will definately be doing this once i have worked out how as a back up!

 

[MikeB]

Reimo.

 

[Woodyboy]

View attachment 230848

I should point out , this is a back up as well as using the cams, for stormy days or motorway miles!

 

[sensiblejohn]

I have the Aurora lwb. It has failed 3-4 times now, but after the first 2 times I secure with a strap as well as latches.The latches aren’t strong enough, maybe if they were cast instead of stamped they would be better. It’s in high wind and when passing lorries it fails, the pressure pulls the roof up and bends the latches. You can see in the photo how much more bent one is than the other, you can also see the one that’s more bent has happened in two stages(the rub marks have changed position)
Skyline deny there’s a problem but they should really think about a solution.( Ie if the latches were cast instead of stamped metal.)

Morning

After being disappointed by Skylines initial response they did turn out to be very helpful.

I haven't yet come to a conclusion as to whether the failure was installation / design or both.

Skyline have now replaced the catches on my roof with a slightly different design which seems more robust, so I suggest that you contact them again and ask for the same.

I've got a couple of other items that I want to 'bottom out' with them, but will be posting an full update soon!

Hope you get this sorted,

John

 

[RunDSG]

Morning

After being disappointed by Skylines initial response they did turn out to be very helpful.

I haven't yet come to a conclusion as to whether the failure was installation / design or both.

Skyline have now replaced the catches on my roof with a slightly different design which seems more robust, so I suggest that you contact them again and ask for the same.

I've got a couple of other items that I want to 'bottom out' with them, but will be posting an full update soon!

Hope you get this sorted,

John

Thanks John. Interesting.

Are you able to share before and/or after photos of your catches?

 

[Woodyboy]

Morning

After being disappointed by Skylines initial response they did turn out to be very helpful.

I haven't yet come to a conclusion as to whether the failure was installation / design or both.

Skyline have now replaced the catches on my roof with a slightly different design which seems more robust, so I suggest that you contact them again and ask for the same.

I've got a couple of other items that I want to 'bottom out' with them, but will be posting an full update soon!

Hope you get this sorted,

John

Thanks for the reply.
If you were able to share any photos of what you’ve got now and what you had before that would be great.
Would be great to get this sorted, the fact I have no damage is testament it’s a well built and strong roof otherwise!

 

[Heath1984]

Seems to be the majority of members who have had no issues had there’s installed by Skyline. Maybe there’s a fine art to fitting these

 

[RunDSG]

Seems to be the majority of members who have had no issues had there’s installed by Skyline. Maybe there’s a fine art to fitting these

I wonder the same. Still feels like ultimate responsibility is with Skyline for the quality of their training or support.

They should (and maybe are?) be investigating this due to the potential reputational damage. And if installers are just not doing it properly despite appropriate guidance, Skyline should cease working with them.

 

[Woodyboy]

Seems to be the majority of members who have had no issues had there’s installed by Skyline. Maybe there’s a fine art to fitting these

Maybe.
The simplest way to check is to pop the roof , make sure everything is tight, and look to see where the latches have worn. If it’s close to the dog leg it’s good, if it’s on the edge obviously not so good.
Mine are worn pretty close to dog leg but still bent in high wind.

 

[RunDSG]

I'll add my bits of media.
Got out the ol' endoscope.

Videos of my cams catching the roof. (Hope the video hosting on OneDrive works...)
My driver's side cam: Driver.mp4
My passenger's side cam: Passenger.mp4

Photos of my two cams.

 

[Ayjay]

@RunDSG Good job there. Is that rust in a few places?

 

[RunDSG]

@RunDSG Good job there. Is that rust in a few places?

Yea looks like it.

 

[Woodyboy]

I spoke to someone at skyline who offered a very simple solution, penny washer.
Will definitely help. Will see how it goes and post back here if any other issues, but it might do the trick.

 

[sensiblejohn]

Unfortunately the latest update isn’t as positive as I’d hoped. I’ve given Skyline a lot of opportunity to respond but haven’t received a response for several weeks.

As a summary:

• My Skyline Aurora pop top opened while driving up the motorway back in November. I’m confident that both catches were properly closed.
• The cams had bent, and the ‘barrels’ both wobbled – see my photos and videos form an earlier post.
• I contacted Skyline to order replacement catches. They wouldn’t sell me replacement parts and advised the issue was down to user error. They suggested I spoke to the original installer.
• I contacted the installer who wouldn’t sell me parts, but would fit new catches for several hundred pounds.
• When I started to question the system as a whole Skyline suggested that it may be an issue due to poor installation.
• I explained my “concerns” (see below) to Skyline, who subsequently sent out a couple of guys to replace the catches. On the face of it, excellent customer service.
• The catches have now been installed seem slightly more robust, but are also from the Southco E3 range and rated to the same load.

Although the response from the installer was very disappointing, I think it's unlikely that the issue was as a result of poor installation. The roof hinges are in the correct positions, and from the worn sections on the original cams they closed in the correct position. (The Skyline guys checked this when the fitted the new catches) On that basis I'm not going to name the installer.

My concerns with the Skyline roof are as follows:

Are the two latches fit for purpose?

• The Southco E3 range of latches are rated to withstand a force of 300N each.
• An engineer who I engaged to look at this advised that “Based on a simplified Bernoulli calculation, the estimated uplift at 40m/s (~90mph) is in excess of 125kgf on each of the front latches, This equates to a force in excess of 1200N”
• This is more than 4 times greater than the manufacturers rating for the latches.
• 90mph was used based on 70mph vehicle speed into a 20mph headwind, very is a scenario which is very easy to achieve .

I have asked Skyline to advise if they have an engineers appraisal, or independent testing to assure me that the catches and hold down system are fit for purpose.

I have not received an answer to this question.

Is the roof TUV Certified?

The Skyline Aurora is advertised as being TUV approved.

The TUV approval for the Skyline roof appears to be for the older generation of roofs which have a webbing hold down, rather than the mechanical latches. (The full details are available on the TUV website, showing the webbing hold down, and a frame that doesn't have the extended sections for the latches)

Conclusion

I have given Skyline a lot of opportunity to respond to these questions directly, they have chosen not to do so, on that basis I am assuming the answer to both of my questions is NO.

I don’t have confidence in the latches, based on what I have found out to date they are not sufficiently robust, this is confirmed by the other reports of failures.

I feel that I have been sold a product which hasn’t been adequately tested by the manufacturer, and has incorrectly been branded as TUV approved.

I am now considering whether I make a claim from Skyline to cover the cost of installing another roof on the van as based on the above I think I would have a fair and reasonable claim for this either under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, or the Misrepresentations Act 1967.

Interested to hear other peoples thoughts, either in the open forum or as a private message.

 

[drinfinity]

I’d be interested to see the ‘simplified’ lift calculations, but it’s possible that the lift is the same order of magnitude as the limit of the latches (600N), so looks like they are under-engineered. It would be easy enough to measure directly. You could drive down the motorway with a passenger holding the roof shut, catches open, whilst sat on a bathroom scale. Measure the difference between the kg at rest and at 70mph, x 10 and you get the newtons. (Add an extra strap just in case, and post the video for us).

Getting a TUV certification then changing the basis of safety does seem dubious.

‘Simplified’ is doing some work here… a paper on it here:

Book : The Contact Patch

the-contact-patch.com

 

[Insert Coin]

Skyline doing themselves no favours here at all, I’ve gone for a Stealth B2 on my new van and thanks to this thread I’m glad I dd.

Skyline also blocked me on their Facebook page when I dared to ask them about a small percentage of theirs roofs opening at speed.

 

[Ricardo T]

I've been in touch with Skyline Midlands to arrange with them to check my catches and closing system before our trip to Norway in May. I dont have any issues with it but would just like it 'checked' as I really dont want it opening any time but especailly a long long way from home.
They didnt reply to my email initailly after a week but a follow up phone call to head office sorted that and they called back straight away to book an appointment.
Ill let you know how i get on.