Questions about diesel hob - heating efficacy, cost calculations vs gas and what is the cheapest without compromising quality?

[QPiepelr65]

Hi guys.

This forum kept popping up while doing research about diesel hobs.

Btw I will preface by saying that all my considerations are for a ford transit connect where economic use of space is of primary importance.

I am part way through a conversion. Done the insulation yet no electrical wiring yet which is my main priority at the moment.

Currently using the cheapo gas cartridges to tide me over but looking to swap them out sharpish once my electrics are up.

I have done quite a bit of number crunching though maybe I missed some stuff and would like to run it by yall.

Strangely when doing the numbers for gas the cartridges worked out about the same as refills for calor at about £2 per 220g if getting a small bottle, based on the refill price of 6kg bottle listings I found on a couple of sites. So far ease and safety, without having to fuss about bottles I went with the cartridges. I am quickly seeing their drawbacks and gas in general, the loss of pressure meaning tiny flame and more importantly the huge condensation buildup.

Price wise I figured out that I gas would cost me around £300 per year either with standard calor or the cartridges. For diesel, using the stated usage on the DSL 800 of 0,09-0,14 l/h, taking 162p per litre as the price it works out at about £40 per year in diesel. So I figured that it would take 3 years to break even with a diesel hob, with all the other advantages it brings and that is only considering the canisters. With a bigger bottle setup and spending £300 odd for the cupboard and getting everything in order there the diesel hob pays for itself within 2 years. I did some calculations for lpg and even though that is cheaper than normal gas the cost to fit it underslung I saw was about £500 at least so again the diesel wins. Unless I have missed anything and if so please let me know but diesel seems like a great choice with many more advantages.

So I am looking back into the diesel hob thing. This has many benefits - no messing with cupboards, drop vents, canisters, and such, saving on space. To the latter point, I am also drawn to the 2 in 1 heater hob saving even more space, however I am wondering is it necessary to get the combis at all? They cost like £500 more for what seems just like adding a cover that directs the heat inwards rather than out the back. Wouldnt just running a naked hob produce similar heat and if not you could just add your own cover or flume above to direct the heat for just a couple of quid no? I even wonder of the utility of directing it anyway as even blown out the back it will flow through the living space quickly. Maybe not ideally but I read diesel heaters run way to hot for small spaces generally anyway so efficiency should not be paramount? So could you just save money and get the wallas DSL 800 for £900 rather than paying stupid amount of £1500 for the hob and cover.

This leads me to which one is best or are they all about the same?

I found out about this other company espar on here which seem like just copy cats of wallas ones. As such I would expect considerably lower prices however they are only a couple hundred quid less at £1235 for the combi. Why take a chance on an unknown company for a little saving like that? I emailed them and they actually stated they have some minor damage stock currently being offered for £990 however even that doesnt seem too appealing to me. £990 from £1500 for the combi is a decent saving sure but if my question above is that the cover is not necessary then I would sooner go for the more well established wallas without cover for £900 new. I also read some bad reviews again on this forum about this espar company do not really help them out with technical issues and washed their hands of them when their devices were damaged more than once.

So please let me know your thoughts from perhaps those more experienced in all this as I am just coming fresh to it all and these are only my initial thoughts but diesel seems like a great choice from the research I have done so far.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Espar is just the americans way of saying Eberspacher. who are a well known and established ( 1865) German company along with Webasto. Wallas was established in 1972.

 

[drinfinity]

I use 2x500 g Cadac cartridges on a Duo regulator, to give me the best use of space. They give a powerful flow, enough for both burners together on my Thetford hob.

 

[DXX]

My Wallas XC Duo costs peanuts to run, most of the time it is minimum setting for heating and cooking. I only go to max’ if I’m boiling water in a rush.
The parts aren’t cheap, I’ve just replaced the service kit and fuel pump after 5 years heavy use. I have travelled in my van for months at a time, cooking twice a day and with the heater running all night.
I use the van all year, at least one or two nights a week.
Cost is just one of many advantages over gas, no condensation, no toxic gas, reduced fire risk, no exhaust noise…….

 

[La Dodgy Vita]

Another vote for the Wallas XC Duo;
many advantages over gas as listed by @DXX plus there's one less thing to think about - how much gas you have and where to refill.
Only one disadvantage as far as I'm concerned and that is it takes a little while to heat up.

 

[DXX]

I would sooner go for the more well established wallas without cover for £900 new.

Without the cover you don’t have a heater, it has a built in fan to blow air over the hot hob.

 

[QPiepelr65]

Espar is just the americans way of saying Eberspacher. who are a well known and established ( 1865) German company along with Webasto. Wallas was established in 1972.

Ah that is useful information thanks. It appears I was mixed up. It doesnt help that they use that colloquiall name which is very different from the original company. I thought there was no affiliation at all.

That is reassuring to know that they are actually just resellers of the long established company. This certainly makes me feel better about going with them with that discounted offer for B stock which is seeming more appealing now I look at the other alternatives. I looked at wallas ones on karunda again and realized the d800 hob only, while being listed at £900 odd, was actually without vat so way 1100 or so with no cover.

I figured out yesterday the actual knockoff ones are from a company called jp-parkingheaters. I went on their website which lists replica ones I guess of the espar/eberspacher combihob at £4-500. This certainly would be worth a punt except reading around on forum posts I found that you then have to pay vat of 120 odd then also another £200 odd for customs taxes as they are sent from overseas. This must have been what I was referring to in my OP, making them work out little better then the genuine product they are imitating.

So with this new information, provided there are no other hidden fees, the espar ex show room stock at a discount price do seem like the most appealing option.

 

[QPiepelr65]

Was expecting more replies given the previous threads I found on this being quite lively on this topic.

I figured out my calculations were wrong.

The average cost of diesel, using .27 as the high water mark reading of diesal consumption from the eberspacher website, comes to £146 per year at current prices of £1.62 per litre of diesel. 1/2 the price of gas generally and still the many benefits listed above of using diesel as the main fuel source.

The numbers look good and eberspacher have replied to me saying there will be a 2 year warranty. Just feels a little daunting dropping £1k on a hob. I am just wanting to dot my is and cross my ts first to make sure I have given it due consideration. My mum being a staunch penny pincher just cannot envision it being worth it despite the numbers on paper. This is not seeing the forest for the trees imo. She is trapped in the false economy of paying £30 for walking boots several times a year and doesnt see how paying for one great pair that will last many years is worth it. Seems a similar situation here.

 

[DXX]

Was expecting more replies given the previous threads I found on this being quite lively on this topic.

I figured out my calculations were wrong.

The average cost of diesel, using .27 as the high water mark reading of diesal consumption from the eberspacher website, comes to £146 per year at current prices of £1.62 per litre of diesel. 1/2 the price of gas generally and still the many benefits listed above of using diesel as the main fuel source.

The numbers look good and eberspacher have replied to me saying there will be a 2 year warranty. Just feels a little daunting dropping £1k on a hob. I am just wanting to dot my is and cross my ts first to make sure I have given it due consideration. My mum being a staunch penny pincher just cannot envision it being worth it despite the numbers on paper. This is not seeing the forest for the trees imo. She is trapped in the false economy of paying £30 for walking boots several times a year and doesnt see how paying for one great pair that will last many years is worth it. Seems a similar situation here.

You won’t find a secondhand Wallas XC Duo for sale anywhere, I’m guessing like me people are happy with it and don’t change their mind.
Sounds like my old Dad talking about buying a house for £300 and ‘the worlds gone mad’.
You can’t take it with you!

 

[QPiepelr65]

Another vote for the Wallas XC Duo;
many advantages over gas as listed by @DXX plus there's one less thing to think about - how much gas you have and where to refill.
Only one disadvantage as far as I'm concerned and that is it takes a little while to heat up.

Without the cover you don’t have a heater, it has a built in fan to blow air over the hot hob.

It must still make heat which has to go somewhere though no? Where would the heat go without a hood? I watched that hipster antishanty video on youtube using his wallas or similar in some pod and the video said if you dont have the cover on it just blows out the back.

I think I could just about pay for the 800dsl wallas with no hood for £1100 but £1500+ seems ridiculous to pay hundreds just for a "hood". It is either that or eberspacher combihob as they have an offer for probably ex show room ones for £990 down from the usual £1200.

Both have 2 year warranties.

 

[DXX]

It must still make heat which has to go somewhere though no? Where would the heat go without a hood? I watched that hipster antishanty video on youtube using his wallas or similar in some pod and the video said if you dont have the cover on it just blows out the back.

I think I could just about pay for the 800dsl wallas with no hood for £1100 but £1500+ seems ridiculous to pay hundreds just for a "hood". It is either that or eberspacher combihob as they have an offer for probably ex show room ones for £990 down from the usual £1200.

Both have 2 year warranties.

The Wallas manual specifically states not to run the hob without the fan hood OR a pan on the hob.
The burner has an over temperature trip.
The dilemma with YouTube is that there is some useful and accurate information and there is some complete sh!te. I’d trust the manufacturer in this case.
With high inflation and the new year approaching I wouldn’t be waiting for the 2024 price list.

 

[QPiepelr65]

I was thinking would this should run on biodiesel too no?

I had a quick look on trusty youtube and there are a few videos of people running diesel heaters from it and since this is almost exactly the same method of operation with just a cooktop added the same should applies for these hobs right?

Example video.

If so this would give me the best of both worlds of still being able to use this while also easing my conscience I was using a cleaner fuel.

 

[DXX]

A very comprehensive Wallas manual is available online. Home - Kuranda UK Ltd

 

[QPiepelr65]

I have also found another company who seem to be selling the exact same hobs from that same jp-parkingheaters distributer.

What I was trying to figure out was if they would be cheaper ordering direct but it appears there isnt much difference after paying vat and customs duty.

Now there would be no reason to choose these over eberspacher except that they offer the single hob which I think I might prefer over 2 burner simply due to space saving in my tiny van.

I also think it is underhanded marketing that eberspacher even have "wallis" in some of the search results for their combihob. I thought they were well established enough not to do such cheap tactics.

I was browsing ebay the other day and some lucky bugger got a brand new (cancelled professional conversion order) for £680! Interesting to see they do turn up from time to time.

These knock offs are the onl