Price of diesel in your area?

DaveD said:
From today's Telegraph;

"Craig Mackinlay, Conservative MP and chair of the Fair Fuel all-party parliamentary group, said: “We should be seeing reductions of at least 25p per litre across all pump fuels – the public have reached their own conclusions that excessive profiteering is at play somewhere or at multiple points in the supply chain.”
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Certainly looks like profiteering rather than trying to build funds to invest in cleaner tech. After all, an industry that has made literally billions of clear profit every single day for the last 50 years could afford to invest wherever they want.

The debate around net zero still baffles me I have to say. As with Brexit, I can fully accept others have opposite views and I always accept that doesn’t make them wrong or daft - we can all happily disagree and discuss (generally goes better sitting in a pub rather than on a forum), and as people have commented it’s not clear what the advantages might be or if we should have seen any between now and 2016 when we decided we were going to be ‘free’.
But the idea of investing millions in a finite resource with clear evidence that burning fossil fuels harms human health rather than investing that same money in means that would allow people to reduce fuel use and/or just use cleaner fuels which are renewable (and might therefore reduce costs and reduce dependency on rogue states)… I really struggle to see the benefit of one side of the debate and unlike Brexit, where we are at the beginning, it feels like we’re nearer a fiery end RE fossil fuels.
 
Bav said:
As a direct consequence of pressure form the green lobby, we sacrificed our existing fuel industry and we signed-up to 'net zero' before we had alternatives in place, thus increasing our reliance of imported energy - that's my take.
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But between 2014 and 2019 oil and gas extraction grew 20% and the UK has 50 companies related to extraction- BP and Shell, who both recently boasted about huge unforeseen profits, are two of them.

The industry is booming in my eyes.
Of course, with more people, more buildings and more vehicles there is increasing demand and yes those pesky crusty green hippies have filled that with wind and solar (and are also making decent returns), but at no detriment to UK oil in my eyes.
 
Lubrown said:
But the idea of investing millions in a finite resource with clear evidence that burning fossil fuels harms human health rather than investing that same money in means that would allow people to reduce fuel use and/or just use cleaner fuels which are renewable (and might therefore reduce costs and reduce dependency on rogue states)… I really struggle to see the benefit of one side of the debate and unlike Brexit, where we are at the beginning, it feels like we’re nearer a fiery end RE fossil fuels.
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The reopening of coal mines and the recommissioning of gas- and coal-fired power stations are red herrings - they won't happen - but people have realised that the UK is a long way from being energy self-sufficient and that we are very exposed to the vagaries of the international energy markets. This realisation doesn't augur well for the green agenda.

Short term, the pausing of the green levy is an obvious way of mitigating the impending fuel-price crisis. Add the removal of VAT, and you have a 13% (ish) saving on fuel bills that is within the government's gift and that can be effected almost immediately - a no-brainer in the current circumstances. Longer term, I doubt any government will have the stomach to reinstate the green levy, plus there will be a much greater scrutiny of the UK's ability to impact global CO2 emissions without corresponding emissions cuts from China, US, Russia and India.
 
Bav said:
The reopening of coal mines and the recommissioning of gas- and coal-fired power stations are red herrings - they won't happen - but people have realised that the UK is a long way from being energy self-sufficient and that we are very exposed to the vagaries of the international energy markets. This realisation doesn't augur well for the green agenda.

Short term, the pausing of the green levy is an obvious way of mitigating the impending fuel-price crisis. Add the removal of VAT, and you have a 13% (ish) saving on fuel bills that is within the government's gift and that can be effected almost immediately - a no-brainer in the current circumstances. Longer term, I doubt any government will have the stomach to reinstate the green levy, plus there will be a much greater scrutiny of the UK's ability to impact global CO2 emissions without corresponding emissions cuts from China, US, Russia and India.
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Any future government with half decent thinkers will see how much poor air quality and climate change actually costs - the figures are available to them now, in terms of health care, loss of produce, damage to infrastructure etc and then look at the industry with a hand in causing these costs making obscene profits and twig the balance is not right.
Yeah, they could privatise health care and tax end users more - as per current wisdom, or they could impose carrot and stick tactics on companies that affect our air/climate/health and drive change. Oil and gas will not last forever and a country that doesn’t appreciate that and move to beat others into the alternative market is on a course for a hiding.

Yet to see fuel costs come down around South Leicestershire- still 181.9 today for a litre of diesel and that’s from the cheap garage.
 
Just filled up in Spain @ £1.55 and pretty sure they import it all. Over last 2.5 weeks here price hardly dropped and that was gasoline as they normally do one green pump or one black pump as a choice....
 
Lubrown said:
Any future government with half decent thinkers will see how much poor air quality and climate change actually costs - the figures are available to them now, in terms of health care, loss of produce, damage to infrastructure etc and then look at the industry with a hand in causing these costs making obscene profits and twig the balance is not right.
Yeah, they could privatise health care and tax end users more - as per current wisdom, or they could impose carrot and stick tactics on companies that affect our air/climate/health and drive change. Oil and gas will not last forever and a country that doesn’t appreciate that and move to beat others into the alternative market is on a course for a hiding.

Yet to see fuel costs come down around South Leicestershire- still 181.9 today for a litre of diesel and that’s from the cheap garage.
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According to a recent study by the Lancet, between 2000 and 2019, the UK's excess death rate associated with cold weather was over 60,000 annually. If the government does not address the impending fuel-price crisis that figure will likely be counted in the hundreds of thousands. Then add the number of people that would be plunged into severe debt trying to avoid being one of those statistics - likely to be counted in the millions - and the number of people whose financial plans and aspirations would be thrown into chaos - likely to counted in the tens of millions.

I'd be interested to hear what you think the government should do to try and avoid such a catastrophe, because I don't think "ignore it and plough on regardless" will cut it - especially as. without corresponding emissions cuts from China, US, Russia and India, the UK cannot make a meaningful impact on global CO2 emissions.
 
Bav said:
According to a recent study by the Lancet, between 2000 and 2019, the UK's excess death rate associated with cold weather was over 60,000 annually. If the government does not address the impending fuel-price crisis that figure will likely be counted in the hundreds of thousands. Then add the number of people that would be plunged into severe debt trying to avoid being one of those statistics - likely to be counted in the millions - and the number of people whose financial plans and aspirations would be thrown into chaos - likely to counted in the tens of millions.

I'd be interested to hear what you think the government should do to try and avoid such a catastrophe, because I don't think "ignore it and plough on regardless" will cut it - especially as. without corresponding emissions cuts from China, US, Russia and India, the UK cannot make a meaningful impact on global CO2 emissions.
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Insulation! Saves fuel (bills and emissions), saves money allowing people to buy food AND stay warm and provides jobs to those installing it.
And yes Johnson did actually try this. He did a poor job of it but it shows there is a need, a desire and finances for this as a solution.
UK housing stock is pretty old and typically very poorly insulated.
I have been involved in projects insulating homes including a listed building. That one used heat pumps, triple glazing and internal insulation to ensure the decorative brick features were maintained. All underfloor heating and the modern fire was pulled out as it won’t be needed (and wasn’t in keeping). A better design of ventilation which worked alongside the heat pump got rid of the long term damp problem (which will improve the internal air quality) and during the last heatwave it was the place to be! Seriously. It future proofs against the extreme heat we are seeing as well as the coldest winters we get… all while saving the occupants serious cash.

A warmth crisis does not have to be a fuel crisis, not in a modern highly taxed and technically able country.

As I keep saying - we can’t keep looking to finite resources (that we know cause harm). The deaths from cold (and heat as your linked study also mentioned), hunger and poor air quality are all at staggering levels in the UK and the answer is not just to keep burning fossil fuel, which will ultimately just go up in price, whether it be extracted here (which it is… and then sold across the globe) or imported.

Of course another way of preventing death from cold would be to pay focused benefits - the study you linked to talked about how poorer people are by far the biggest group affected. We have seen real terms benefit cuts for years now though and with the fact the government are determined not to publish the numerous reports linking these cuts to deaths and various other societal issues (British minister accused of trying to hide reports on impact of Tory welfare reforms | Benefits | The Guardian) it seems there is no desire currently to make appropriate benefits payments.
 
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Lubrown said:
Insulation! Saves fuel (bills and emissions), saves money allowing people to buy food AND stay warm and provides jobs to those installing it.
And yes Johnson did actually try this. He did a poor job of it but it shows there is a need, a desire and finances for this as a solution.
UK housing stock is pretty old and typically very poorly insulated.
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I agree insulation would be a win/win, but the whole of the UK stock (almost 28million homes) can't be insulated before the start of this winter. In fact, were we able to insulate a million homes annually (not a credible target IMO), it would take until 2050 to achieve this.

Lubrown said:
I have been involved in projects insulating homes including a listed building. That one used heat pumps, triple glazing and internal insulation to ensure the decorative brick features were maintained. All underfloor heating and the modern fire was pulled out as it won’t be needed (and wasn’t in keeping). A better design of ventilation which worked alongside the heat pump got rid of the long term damp problem (which will improve the internal air quality) and during the last heatwave it was the place to be! Seriously. It future proofs against the extreme heat we are seeing as well as the coldest winters we get… all while saving the occupants serious cash.
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Care to share the approximate cost of this project? I'm guessing if we extrapolated that cost for the whole of the UK housing stock, there wouldn't be much change from 3 trillion pounds.

Lubrown said:
A warmth crisis does not have to be a fuel crisis, not in a modern highly taxed and technically able country.
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Sorry, I don't understand this comment.

Lubrown said:
As I keep saying - we can’t keep looking to finite resources (that we know cause harm). The deaths from cold (and heat as your linked study also mentioned), hunger and poor air quality are all at staggering levels in the UK and the answer is not just to keep burning fossil fuel, which will ultimately just go up in price, whether it be extracted here (which it is… and then sold across the globe) or imported.
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This is a red herring. I'm not advocating further investment in fossil fuels - I have merely stated my belief that if it wasn't for climate activism and the pursuit of 'net zero', the UK would have still have a functioning coal mining industry and, potentially, a fracking industry.

Lubrown said:
Of course another way of preventing death from cold would be to pay focused benefits - the study you linked to talked about how poorer people are by far the biggest group affected.
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To implement a means-tested benefit usually requires primary legislation and complex, time-consuming IT upgrades. Once implemented, they're expensive to administer and invariably have a take-up rate significantly below 100%. Also, by design, means-tested benefits don't help anyone outside the target criteria, so won't help most of the millions predicted to be plunged into crippling debt nor those on fixed incomes (e.g. pensioners) whose financial plans will likely be thrown into irrecoverable disarray.

Bav said:
...without corresponding emissions cuts from China, US, Russia and India, the UK cannot make a meaningful impact on global CO2 emissions.
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Twice I have raised this point and twice you have failed to engage with me on this point. Can I ask why?
 
Nige_g said:
Talking of which. You can't buy them anywhere now. I presume they have been discontinued.:)
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As a chocoholic, I do sometimes miss the old hazelnut in every bite!

Back (ish) to original topic (the one about fuel prices rather than yummy chocolate bars), the MFD tells me that I've got 75 miles left so I'm going to fill up later this morning and I'm not looking forward to it.
 
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