Nokian Weatherproof - Not ageing well.

Dieseldonkey

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Generally, I run dedicated summer and winter tyres. However, these Nokians came with a set of wheels I purchased. Being an all season tyre, I ran them all summer. With just under 5mm tread left, I'd planned on changing them in the spring when I'll fit summer tyres. Out of the four different tyres I've run in the van, these have been the loudest. Even Mrs Donkey noticed and asked what the noise was. In fairness though, I'm not sure if its the tyre/wheel combination that's resonating, so I should reserve judgement until I put summer tyres on the same wheels. They've been good in heavy rain and standing water with no aquaplaning at all. They were also good on wet grass on the campsite, albeit being wider (235/55r18) than standard (215/60 r17) tyres, they spread the weight a bit more.

However, the wear seems odd and they appear to be ageing prematurely.

Looking at the shoulder wear, it looks like classic under inflation or overloading. However the tyres are load rated at 104, so within spec for a T32. I also started at 47 psi and ramped them up to the manufactures maximum pressure of 51 psi. So definitely not under inflated. Wondering if the akerman geometry with the slightly wider track is the cause of the shoulder wear. I should add the rear tyres have a more even wear across the tread.

However, looking at the shoulders and side walls, the rubber is perishing. Something to be expected if these were 10 year old tyres. Not so much on 3 year old tyres, as these are. Also the tread is not just wearing, but there's a fair bit of shredding on the outer edges too. Hopefully visible on the photos. There's a YT clip with a chap with these fitted on a Volvo and he seems to be having a similar issue.
Again to be fair, the perishing looks superficial. Certainly not exposing chord or ply, but still concerning non the less. Maybe something to keep an eye on if you run these tyres with low annual mileage over long periods of time.

20201118_143427.jpg

20201121_111917.jpg
 
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t0mb0

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How certain are you of the age of the tyres if you got them second hand? That perishing is odd on a three year old tyre.

Also, is it both shoulders wearing equally? If not, and one of the outer/inner is wearing more, I guess it could be a tracking/alignment issue?
 

j4ckal

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How certain are you of the age of the tyres if you got them second hand? That perishing is odd on a three year old tyre.

Also, is it both shoulders wearing equally? If not, and one of the outer/inner is wearing more, I guess it could be a tracking/alignment issue?
3917 it shows in the photo.
 

DXX

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IMO if the rubber were perishing it would be the same all over. Possibly damage from running at very low pressure, maybe on snow?
 

Kind of Blue

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The image a similarity to a front pair of tyres on my T6 regarding the tread but not the side wall. My side walls were in better condition Mine is one year old and very soon after buying almost immediately changed from 255/45 R18 standard road tyres to 225/65 R17 Bridgestone Winter Tyres. Bought mainly for winter and for off road because that is where my home is. The problem for me was the lock down. My mileage dropped dramatically so it was difficult to monitor the tyres day to day if not being used. When I first noticed the outer wear I thought that it was cornering stress. I did not get down on all 4s to check properly but I did increase pressures and again after noticing it getting worse. Then when I changed them I could see both outer walls here worn indication low pressure but at the end I was using quite high pressures. It felt too high also.

I can not recall the exact mileage but Think that I replaced the fronts at 3,000 miles but if it was 4000 it would be the same problem. I have written on the forum what the mileage was but can not be bothered to look right now. I had the tracking checked. That is why I have been asking for correct tyre pressures for different or bigger tyres. I see someone has requested labels which does highlight the different pressures between different tyres Tyre data label

It can be seen that pressures differ greatly between the different sizes. As much as 25psi on the same axle The narrower tyres having very high pressures. I looked for some evidence for pressures and some of the American tyre wheel comparison sites did have automatic compensators for changing one size to an other. the only thing was I could not quite understand some of the tyre designations that needed to be selected and so it might be difficult to arrive at the correct pressures. If I tried there suggestions then I felt it was too low however it was similar to what I have heard else where, cant remember where. I have never in all my years run tyres under pressure but here I felt that I was. So I ask again. The useful thing about the labels being posted is that it is possible to see a sort of trend between the versus sizes and profiles but it is only an indicator and not an absolute guide. Any way I have replaced the front and will look over winter but the lock downs and restrictions will prevent fast assessments and remedies.

The mistake that I made for off road use is just blindly following popular trends and beliefs. That wheel diameter dictates ride quality. The fact is it does not exactly , it is more complex than that. Wheel width and profile also affect ride quality. these parameters also greatly affect traction Off-Road also depending on terrain.

So at some stage, I will be going back to 18". Lower Ground pressures are important for my use and so is traction and not getting stuck on islands between tractor tracks or embedded rocks.

Of course winter tyre compounds are soft so would not be expected to last so long as summer tyres.
 
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mmi

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Generally, I run dedicated summer and winter tyres. However, these Nokians came with a set of wheels I purchased. Being an all season tyre, I ran them all summer. With just under 5mm tread left, they'll last until the spring when I'll fit summer tyres. Out of the four different tyres I've run in the van, these have been the loudest. Even Mrs Donkey noticed and asked what the noise was. In fairness though, I'm not sure if its the tyre/wheel combination that's resonating, so I should reserve judgement until I put summer tyres on the same wheels. They've been good in heavy rain and standing water with no aquaplaning at all. They were also good on wet grass on the campsite, albeit being wider (235/55r18) than standard (215/60 r17) tyres, they spread the weight a bit more.

However, the wear seems odd and they appear to be ageing prematurely.

Looking at the shoulder wear, it looks like classic under inflation or overloading. However the tyres are load rated at 104, so within spec for a T32. I also started at 47 psi and ramped them up to the manufactures maximum pressure of 51 psi. So definitely not under inflated. Wondering if the akerman geometry with the slightly wider track is the cause of the shoulder wear. I should add the rear tyres have a more even wear across the tread.

However, looking at the shoulders and side walls, the rubber is perishing. Something to be expected if these were 10 year old tyres. Not so much on 3 year old tyres, as these are. Also the tread is not just wearing, but there's a fair bit of shredding on the outer edges too. Hopefully visible on the photos. There's a YT clip with a chap with these fitted on a Volvo and he seems to be having a similar issue.
Again to be fair, the perishing looks superficial. Certainly not exposing chord or ply, but still concerning non the less. Maybe something to keep an eye on if you run these tyres with low annual mileage over long periods of time.

View attachment 92521

View attachment 92522
Embarrassed to see that kind of Nokian tyres. As the tyres are well within Nokian's warranty, please see attached information.
 

Dieseldonkey

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There's some interesting points in the terms and conditions @mmi Thank you for that. I'm thinking they might argue its an SUV tyre and not sold on the basis that its for commercial vehicles, even though the load rating is fine for the purpose.

The Weatherproof (I'm led to believe its getting replaced by the Seasonproof) is obviously an all season, but its widely regarded as having a winter bias. I wonder if its the rubber compound is better suited to more lower average nordic temperatures.

@t0mb0 . Yes 3917. Tyres were manufactured in week 39 of 2017

I'm scratching my head with the alignment /tracking @j4ckal . This is another photo showing equal wear in both the shoulders. So not thinking toe in/out, camber or balancing issue. As I say Akerman geometry might be out fractionally because of non standard offset on the wheels but its minimal. The rear tyres have the perishing in the foot of the tread but not the tread wear issue, on the shoulders. I don't drive the van hard.

Here's the YT video. Some interesting comments below it about Nokian replacing the tyres. Seems unusual amount of flashing left on his particular tyre from the mould, mind.


20201118_143541.jpg
 

Paynewright

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I’ve got shredding on my Bridgestone all season fronts and will be lucky to get 40k miles that some get out of them (currently 10k miles)

I’ve recently got a set of 17” steels refurb’d and put a set of Minerva winters on them. I was umming and arring whether to sell the rims and just use the all seasons as intended but glad I got the winter tyres now. Once the Bridgestones have worn out I’ll put summer tyres on them.

Having two sets of wheels / tyres seems an expense but your tyres will last twice as long, so its only the initial purchase of rims and storage to contend with. There were a new condition set of 17” steels sold on the forum for £100 recently. Also, it makes sense to have a cheap / dispensable set for winter when there is salt and ice about and save best wheels for summer.

I’ll now run my 17s in winter and 18s (Amarok Steels) in summer.

Ian

6C1F0535-E1C5-4F46-9118-DE0E0F3811F3.jpeg
 

Dieseldonkey

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Just a quick search, brings up this lot, with similar issue.




 

DaveD

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Generally, I run dedicated summer and winter tyres. However, these Nokians came with a set of wheels I purchased. Being an all season tyre, I ran them all summer. With just under 5mm tread left, they'll last until the spring when I'll fit summer tyres. Out of the four different tyres I've run in the van, these have been the loudest. Even Mrs Donkey noticed and asked what the noise was. In fairness though, I'm not sure if its the tyre/wheel combination that's resonating, so I should reserve judgement until I put summer tyres on the same wheels. They've been good in heavy rain and standing water with no aquaplaning at all. They were also good on wet grass on the campsite, albeit being wider (235/55r18) than standard (215/60 r17) tyres, they spread the weight a bit more.

However, the wear seems odd and they appear to be ageing prematurely.

Looking at the shoulder wear, it looks like classic under inflation or overloading. However the tyres are load rated at 104, so within spec for a T32. I also started at 47 psi and ramped them up to the manufactures maximum pressure of 51 psi. So definitely not under inflated. Wondering if the akerman geometry with the slightly wider track is the cause of the shoulder wear. I should add the rear tyres have a more even wear across the tread.

However, looking at the shoulders and side walls, the rubber is perishing. Something to be expected if these were 10 year old tyres. Not so much on 3 year old tyres, as these are. Also the tread is not just wearing, but there's a fair bit of shredding on the outer edges too. Hopefully visible on the photos. There's a YT clip with a chap with these fitted on a Volvo and he seems to be having a similar issue.
Again to be fair, the perishing looks superficial. Certainly not exposing chord or ply, but still concerning non the less. Maybe something to keep an eye on if you run these tyres with low annual mileage over long periods of time.

View attachment 92521

View attachment 92522
If I were you I'd bin them rather than keeping them until spring, unless you don't anticipate using the van until then.
 

chriscroft

15 years of VW T 'ing
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Generally, I run dedicated summer and winter tyres. However, these Nokians came with a set of wheels I purchased. Being an all season tyre, I ran them all summer. With just under 5mm tread left, they'll last until the spring when I'll fit summer tyres. Out of the four different tyres I've run in the van, these have been the loudest. Even Mrs Donkey noticed and asked what the noise was. In fairness though, I'm not sure if its the tyre/wheel combination that's resonating, so I should reserve judgement until I put summer tyres on the same wheels. They've been good in heavy rain and standing water with no aquaplaning at all. They were also good on wet grass on the campsite, albeit being wider (235/55r18) than standard (215/60 r17) tyres, they spread the weight a bit more.

However, the wear seems odd and they appear to be ageing prematurely.

Looking at the shoulder wear, it looks like classic under inflation or overloading. However the tyres are load rated at 104, so within spec for a T32. I also started at 47 psi and ramped them up to the manufactures maximum pressure of 51 psi. So definitely not under inflated. Wondering if the akerman geometry with the slightly wider track is the cause of the shoulder wear. I should add the rear tyres have a more even wear across the tread.

However, looking at the shoulders and side walls, the rubber is perishing. Something to be expected if these were 10 year old tyres. Not so much on 3 year old tyres, as these are. Also the tread is not just wearing, but there's a fair bit of shredding on the outer edges too. Hopefully visible on the photos. There's a YT clip with a chap with these fitted on a Volvo and he seems to be having a similar issue.
Again to be fair, the perishing looks superficial. Certainly not exposing chord or ply, but still concerning non the less. Maybe something to keep an eye on if you run these tyres with low annual mileage over long periods of time.
@Dieseldonkey , I think your post title is a little unfair, as I believe your tyres could be well over 40k miles old

View attachment 92521

View attachment 92522
These are my old Nokian's still on their 17" rims, as I've changed to 18" rims

IMG_7207[1].jpg
IMG_7206[1].jpg
My tyres: Only 3.5 years old!!!!!!! OMG
but hang on 41k miles later........... (and never rotated)

The wear pattern is slightly strange, but my tyres still had 4mm left across most of the tread and were performing brilliantly, yes a bit noisy but show me a tyre with 4mm still left mostly and 41k miles that aren't starting to look and sound a bit warn out.

I can say my Vel has never once come close to carrying a big load; or been incorrectly inflated; or out of alignment; so its just a wear characteristic of the tyre.
I've put new 235/55/18 SUV Nokian Weatherproofs on 9 months or so ago, and as a new tyre, they are defiantly quieter. But that's always been my experience new tyres are, well just nicer in terms of harshness. It's totally unfair to compare new tyres with old tyres
Irrespective of cost (and I would happily spend twice as much on each tyre if I thought the was a better tyre available), Nokians remain my tyre of choice for our T6, having considered every other option.

@Dieseldonkey , I think your thread title is unfair, your tyres may well have well over 40k+++ , miles on them, and could have been abused in a previous life; they are just showing the specific characteristic of the Nokian tyre as they approach the end of their life.

Nokian Weatherproof SUV's are and remain a fantastic T6 tyre IMO.
 

t0mb0

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These are my old Nokian's still on their 17" rims, as I've changed to 18" rims

View attachment 92681
View attachment 92682
My tyres: Only 3.5 years old!!!!!!! OMG
but hang on 41k miles later........... (and never rotated)

The wear pattern is slightly strange, but my tyres still had 4mm left across most of the tread and were performing brilliantly, yes a bit noisy but show me a tyre with 4mm still left mostly and 41k miles that aren't starting to look and sound a bit warn out.

I can say my Vel has never once come close to carrying a big load; or been incorrectly inflated; or out of alignment; so its just a wear characteristic of the tyre.
I've put new 235/55/18 SUV Nokian Weatherproofs on 9 months or so ago, and as a new tyre, they are defiantly quieter. But that's always been my experience new tyres are, well just nicer in terms of harshness. It's totally unfair to compare new tyres with old tyres
Irrespective of cost (and I would happily spend twice as much on each tyre if I thought the was a better tyre available), Nokians remain my tyre of choice for our T6, having considered every other option.

@Dieseldonkey , I think your thread title is unfair, your tyres may well have well over 40k+++ , miles on them, and could have been abused in a previous life; they are just showing the specific characteristic of the Nokian tyre as they approach the end of their life.

Nokian Weatherproof SUV's are and remain a fantastic T6 tyre IMO.
It’s a valid point that we don’t know how many miles @Dieseldonkey’s tyres have on them. The shoulder wear on yours looks pretty extreme compared to the central section, consistent with his experience. I would have got scared and changed them a fair few miles before you did I think!

On the perishing issue though, am I right in thinking this is largely a function of age rather than mileage?
 

chriscroft

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It’s a valid point that we don’t know how many miles @Dieseldonkey’s tyres have on them. The shoulder wear on yours looks pretty extreme compared to the central section, consistent with his experience. I would have got scared and changed them a fair few miles before you did I think!

On the perishing issue though, am I right in thinking this is largely a function of age rather than mileage?
My rears were better than my fronts, and with proper rotation (Which is a pita with directional tyres), I'm sure they would have looked a fair bit better.
Mt tyre fitter (whom I really trust) assured me they were still legal, and very safe. So I had no concerns there.
I don't think these tyres are showing age-related perishing, as 3.5 years is no age; and given that the rears (the same age as the fronts) aren't showing anything like the same degradation.
It would have been interesting if I had rotated FR-RL; FL-RR, every 10k miles or so, to see what would have happened then. I'm sure they would have looked loads better.
My current 23/55/18"s with 8k miles are looking great. (front tyre in the picture)
IMG_7223.jpg
 

chriscroft

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I’ve got shredding on my Bridgestone all season fronts and will be lucky to get 40k miles that some get out of them (currently 10k miles)

I’ve recently got a set of 17” steels refurb’d and put a set of Minerva winters on them. I was umming and arring whether to sell the rims and just use the all seasons as intended but glad I got the winter tyres now. Once the Bridgestones have worn out I’ll put summer tyres on them.

Having two sets of wheels / tyres seems an expense but your tyres will last twice as long, so its only the initial purchase of rims and storage to contend with. There were a new condition set of 17” steels sold on the forum for £100 recently. Also, it makes sense to have a cheap / dispensable set for winter when there is salt and ice about and save best wheels for summer.

I’ll now run my 17s in winter and 18s (Amarok Steels) in summer.

Ian

View attachment 92575
That's not so good; have you been somewhere hot in the van?
 

Dieseldonkey

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I appreciate your a fan of these @chriscroft.

I have and am trying to be objective about them. I don't doubt the tyres have many good qualities. As mentioned above they haven't been found wanting in being sure footed for what I need. Its rare that I rattle the cutlery in the van, but on the odd occasion I've pushed on, there's never been any issue. Not had the pleasure of driving them on snow, but again, I don't doubt the many accounts of there strong capabilities, from other forum members.

On that note, it was another forum member that I purchased the wheels and tyres from some 8 months ago now. He's put a very good thread on the forum, with him touring Scandanavia with these on. Not a million miles from where these tyres were born (Northern Russia). I'd be surprised if they'd suffered abuse. I really like the wheels the tyres are on, but I'm aware they are a thinner spoked design than say, Devonports. So as I mentioned above this combination may effect the acoustics coming up through the road. Time will tell when new tyres are fitted. They had about 6mm of tread on when I purchased them and even at that, I felt they were noisy. One or two reviews from respected organisations, also flag the noise in comparison tests.

From doing a little research, it appears Nokian have honoured a good number of warranty claims on these tyres with similar issue. Could be for a number of reasons, potential litigation, customer confidence, risk of bad press, known issue etc. So thats obviously to their credit.

It does seem your tyres have the same wear pattern as mine. However I'd prefer to be binning (sorry...recycling) my tyres because they'd reached 3mm, rather than the structure of the tyre degrading. It appears mine are not an isolated case either.

So yes, perhaps a good tyre in many ways. Like all tyres, a compromise. But technology marches on in tyre developments, so as said, I'm conscious of being objective and me not dawning rose tinted specs about these.

20200422_160842.jpg
 
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t0mb0

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I appreciate your a fan of these @chriscroft.

I have and am trying to be objective about them. I don't doubt the tyres have many good qualities. As mentioned above they haven't been found wanting in being sure footed for what I need. Its rare that I rattle the cutlery in the van, but on the odd occasion I've pushed on, there's never been any issue. Not had the pleasure of driving them on snow, but again, I don't doubt the many accounts of there strong capabilities, from other forum members.

On that note, it was another forum member that I purchased the wheels and tyres from. He's put a very good thread on the forum, with him touring Scandanavia with these on. Not a million miles from where these tyres were born (Northern Russia). I'd be surprised if they'd suffered abuse. I really like the wheels the tyres are on, but I'm aware they are a thinner spoked design than say, Devonports. So as I mentioned above this combination may effect the acoustics coming up through the road. Time will tell when new tyres are fitted. They had about 6mm of tread on when I purchased them and even at that, I felt they were noisy. One or two reviews from respected organisations, also flag the noise in comparisons.

From doing a little research, it appears Nokian have honoured a good number of warranty claims on these tyres with similar issue. Could be for a number of reasons, potential litigation, customer confidence, risk of bad press, known issue etc. So thats obviously to their credit.

It does seem your tyres have the same wear pattern as mine. However I'd prefer to be binning (sorry...recycling) my tyres because they'd reached 3mm, rather than the structure of the tyre degrading. It appears mine are not an isolated case either.

So yes, perhaps a good tyre in many ways. Like all tyres, a compromise. But technology marches on in tyre developments, so as said, I'm conscious of being objective and me not dawning rose tinted specs about these.

View attachment 92692
But do you know the actual mileage the tyres have covered?
 

Dieseldonkey

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But do you know the actual mileage the tyres have covered?
Nope. But assuming with the manufacture date mark, the tyres may have been fitted new at the start of 2018, with about 8 to 9mm tread. So looking at roughly 1 to 1.33mm wear per annum average.
 

Paynewright

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That's not so good; have you been somewhere hot in the van?
Wales and Scotland are hardly hot countries :)

The rears are fine. I’m also a bit of a pressure pedant - I forget how many times I’ve told people they have flat or under inflated tyres. I’ve always increased the pressure when loaded (holidays) and reduced them afterwards. That said, 235/50R18 isnt an OEM size fitment so use the closest size on the label to set the pressures.

The other thought is geometry so I’m going to get it checked.

The tread block does seem like its cracking and the rubber hasn’t been baked properly.
 
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