Nokian Weatherproof - Not ageing well.

[chriscroft]

Wales and Scotland are hardly hot countries

The rears are fine. I’m also a bit of a pressure pedant - I forget how many times I’ve told people they have flat or under inflated tyres. I’ve always increased the pressure when loaded (holidays) and reduced them afterwards. That said, 235/50R18 isnt an OEM size fitment so use the closest size on the label to set the pressures.

The other thought is geometry so I’m going to get it checked.

The tread block does seem like its cracking and the rubber hasn’t been baked properly.

I've just googled your tyre, it looks like there are two variants (load rating) 101 & 101XL which one do you have?

 

[chriscroft]

I appreciate your a fan of these @chriscroft.

I have and am trying to be objective about them. I don't doubt the tyres have many good qualities. As mentioned above they haven't been found wanting in being sure footed for what I need. Its rare that I rattle the cutlery in the van, but on the odd occasion I've pushed on, there's never been any issue. Not had the pleasure of driving them on snow, but again, I don't doubt the many accounts of there strong capabilities, from other forum members.

On that note, it was another forum member that I purchased the wheels and tyres from. He's put a very good thread on the forum, with him touring Scandanavia with these on. Not a million miles from where these tyres were born (Northern Russia). I'd be surprised if they'd suffered abuse. I really like the wheels the tyres are on, but I'm aware they are a thinner spoked design than say, Devonports. So as I mentioned above this combination may effect the acoustics coming up through the road. Time will tell when new tyres are fitted. They had about 6mm of tread on when I purchased them and even at that, I felt they were noisy. One or two reviews from respected organisations, also flag the noise in comparisons.

From doing a little research, it appears Nokian have honoured a good number of warranty claims on these tyres with similar issue. Could be for a number of reasons, potential litigation, customer confidence, risk of bad press, known issue etc. So thats obviously to their credit.

It does seem your tyres have the same wear pattern as mine. However I'd prefer to be binning (sorry...recycling) my tyres because they'd reached 3mm, rather than the structure of the tyre degrading. It appears mine are not an isolated case either.

So yes, perhaps a good tyre in many ways. Like all tyres, a compromise. But technology marches on in tyre developments, so as said, I'm conscious of being objective and me not dawning rose tinted specs about these.

View attachment 92692

But You can't possibly be objective, because you do not know the history or milage on the tyres; it could be they've done 50k miles, and they had had their live 10k miles ago and should have been binned then. Another aspect is using on unpaved roads, which can really hammer non AT tyres.
Whereas I can be totally objective because I know the history of mine 100% and their use/abuse in full detail.
I'm not a Nokian fan by default, I will switch brands in a minute if I think I can find a better tyre; my starting point is always Michelin, and go from there.
However, the Mich CC SUV is just not aggressive enough or has deep enough treads for my use; having said that I would probably be running Mich Agilis CC if they were available in larger sizes.
The Michelin CC Mk2 is out next year in Europe, I'll be interested to look at them, they seem pretty good from what I've read (USA reviews); and the GoodYear Vector 4-season Gen3. But sizing can be an issue if you want 235/55/18, which aren't the most common of sizes.

 

[Dieseldonkey]

But You can't possibly be objective, because you do not know the history or milage on the tyres; it could be they've done 50k miles, and they had had their live 10k miles ago and should have been binned then. Another aspect is using on unpaved roads, which can really hammer non AT tyres.
Whereas I can be totally objective because I know the history of mine 100% and their use/abuse in full detail.
I'm not a Nokian fan by default, I will switch brands in a minute if I think I can find a better tyre; my starting point is always Michelin, and go from there.
However, the Mich CC SUV is just not aggressive enough or has deep enough treads for my use; having said that I would probably be running Mich Agilis CC if they were available in larger sizes.
The Michelin CC Mk2 is out next year in Europe, I'll be interested to look at them, they seem pretty good from what I've read (USA reviews); and the GoodYear Vector 4-season Gen3. But sizing can be an issue if you want 235/55/18, which aren't the most common of sizes.
View attachment 92709
View attachment 92713

I'd say by objective, I'm referring to being open minded and balanced. I can see the good points in these tyres, as I've mentioned. However, with 6mm on the tread it would reasonable to assume, that barring any geometry issue, it should be perfectly reasonable to expect to take the tyres down to 3mm tread with even wear. Regardless of the previous mileage, where, as in this case
the previous wear has been even across the board. The problem appears to be the rather abrupt breakdown in integrity of the compound on the tyres shoulder, hence the cracking and perishing. The shoulder wear on your tyres actually looks more severe than mine. Yet we both believe underinflation hasn't been an issue and the axle loading has been under load index 104 apparent capabilities.

As you've said yourself Chris, the wear pattern is 'slightly strange'. Personally, I find the perishing and cracking 'slightly strange.' Others too, have reported and posted on the tinterweb, also seem to find the failing in compound 'slightly strange'. Hence their posts. And some reports from consumers, suggest Nokian themselves maybe keen on getting tyres with this defect off the roads, by offering warranty replacements.

The winter tyres I have in my sights at the moment, for replacing the Nokians, are either Bridgestone Blizzaks LM005 or Goodyear Ultra Grip Performance +. But whatever I pick, I'm hoping I don't encounter this 'slightly strange' wear pattern again and I'll get the full value from the tyres 8mm of tread, down to 3mm, across the board.

 

[alter]

My Nokian Wheaterproof Cargo 106T.... super

 

[Kind of Blue]

Bridgestone Blizzaks LM005 is what I use. I can not comment on performance regarding snow or ice because of the limited mileage during the COVID19 period. I only saw frosted roads. The behaviour on the road was excellent with excellent water clearing properties and behaviour on cold damp roads excellent even without warming up which is encouraging.

It is worth while keeping abreast of what is going on because things are fluid. By the way be aware as I am sure everyone is, that some of the road tests done by magazines are loaded in the sense of value given to each category tested. I do not consider what testers say regarding noise and mileage or indeed anything that is unimportant to my priorities.

Sometimes it is worth looking at all the tests and tyre results and toting up only those specific things important to you! The leading tyre that the a magazine or what ever may not be your final choice!

 

[chriscroft]

I'd say by objective, I'm referring to being open minded and balanced. I can see the good points in these tyres, as I've mentioned. However, with 6mm on the tread it would reasonable to assume, that barring any geometry issue, it should be perfectly reasonable to expect to take the tyres down to 3mm tread with even wear. Regardless of the previous mileage, where, as in this case
the previous wear has been even across the board. The problem appears to be the rather abrupt breakdown in integrity of the compound on the tyres shoulder, hence the cracking and perishing. The shoulder wear on your tyres actually looks more severe than mine. Yet we both believe underinflation hasn't been an issue and the axle loading has been under load index 104 apparent capabilities.

As you've said yourself Chris, the wear pattern is 'slightly strange'. Personally, I find the perishing and cracking 'slightly strange.' Others too, have reported and posted on the tinterweb, also seem to find the failing in compound 'slightly strange'. Hence their posts. And some reports from consumers, suggest Nokian themselves maybe keen on getting tyres with this defect off the roads, by offering warranty replacements.

The winter tyres I have in my sights at the moment, for replacing the Nokians, are either Bridgestone Blizzaks LM005 or Goodyear Ultra Grip Performance +. But whatever I pick, I'm hoping I don't encounter this 'slightly strange' wear pattern again and I'll get the full value from the tyres 8mm of tread, down to 3mm, across the board.

I posted on the forum a few months ago, that we had an Ocado delivery from the Sheffield hub; The delivery van was a brand new Merc Sprinter; and `I noticed it had Blizzaks on (I think it was late August/early Sept). I mentioned this to the driver. "Oh yes he said we run Blizzaks on all the vans all year round, and the vans are delivered brand new from the converter with these tyres on"
The driver thought it related to an event when the snow came either early or late in the season and it stranded nearly all the delivery fleet out of Sheffield. This was a huge local issue for Ocado, and so many customers were less than understanding; destroying all the local KPI's
For those not familiar with Sheffield it gets awfully hilly and beautifully wild just a few miles west of the city centre,
Ocado is a corporately fast-moving outfit, so the decision was made there and then, all the vans will have the premium winters on all year round.

 

[andys]

I wonder how they behave in the summer. I always used to know when to change my winters, at 7 degrees they were ok, at 10 degrees they were dodgy, at 13 degrees they were downright dangerous and would let go on even slightly damp roundabouts.

 

[chriscroft]

I'd say by objective, I'm referring to being open minded and balanced. I can see the good points in these tyres, as I've mentioned. However, with 6mm on the tread it would reasonable to assume, that barring any geometry issue, it should be perfectly reasonable to expect to take the tyres down to 3mm tread with even wear. Regardless of the previous mileage, where, as in this case
the previous wear has been even across the board. The problem appears to be the rather abrupt breakdown in integrity of the compound on the tyres shoulder, hence the cracking and perishing. The shoulder wear on your tyres actually looks more severe than mine. Yet we both believe underinflation hasn't been an issue and the axle loading has been under load index 104 apparent capabilities.

As you've said yourself Chris, the wear pattern is 'slightly strange'. Personally, I find the perishing and cracking 'slightly strange.' Others too, have reported and posted on the tinterweb, also seem to find the failing in compound 'slightly strange'. Hence their posts. And some reports from consumers, suggest Nokian themselves maybe keen on getting tyres with this defect off the roads, by offering warranty replacements.

The winter tyres I have in my sights at the moment, for replacing the Nokians, are either Bridgestone Blizzaks LM005 or Goodyear Ultra Grip Performance +. But whatever I pick, I'm hoping I don't encounter this 'slightly strange' wear pattern again and I'll get the full value from the tyres 8mm of tread, down to 3mm, across the board.

I hope you get more than 40k miles out of these tyres......But you won't, and you'll pay more for them.
I am still totally confused with your logic. Nokians have lasted me 40k miles, and yours are probably the same.
For some reason, you feel robbed because the middle hasn't worn out yet. Who gives a sh*t, these great tyre cost about £115 a corner are great all year round on a T6, are amazing in snow and ice, great in mud; puncture-resistant; and last 40k miles without rotation, and you don't the hassle of swapping rims etc. THEY ARE AMAZING.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Well I have never had any tyre on any vehicle last any were near 40,000miles.
Not even half of that...

 

[chriscroft]

Well I have never had any tyre on any vehicle last any were near 40,000miles.
Not even half of that...

I have no idea in reality, but if I was guessing in stood deep water aquaplaning situations these Nokians with 40k would outperform a new summer tyre.
Well, I do have a clue because my Volvo xc40 with new Pirelli Scorpions summers in standing water, did not stop as well as my t6 with nokians. I think it has to do with deep directional treads....like F1 -full wets.

 

[Dieseldonkey]

I wonder how they behave in the summer. I always used to know when to change my winters, at 7 degrees they were ok, at 10 degrees they were dodgy, at 13 degrees they were downright dangerous and would let go on even slightly damp roundabouts.

Yeah, I wouldn't personally wouldn't run a winter tyre in summer. In a previous life, having driven winters on various BMW's and Volvo's, they could be quite abrupt at letting go, on the odd warmer and dry winter day.

Ocado vans perhaps driven more sedately, all year round though.

Bridgestone Blizzaks LM005 is what I use. I can not comment on performance regarding snow or ice because of the limited mileage during the COVID19 period. I only saw frosted roads. The behaviour on the road was excellent with excellent water clearing properties and behaviour on cold damp roads excellent even without warming up which is encouraging.

It is worth while keeping abreast of what is going on because things are fluid. By the way be aware as I am sure everyone is, that some of the road tests done by magazines are loaded in the sense of value given to each category tested. I do not consider what testers say regarding noise and mileage or indeed anything that is unimportant to my priorities.

Sometimes it is worth looking at all the tests and tyre results and toting up only those specific things important to you! The leading tyre that the a magazine or what ever may not be your final choice!

I'd agree there. Often interesting how a specific tyre gets rated differently across different reviews. Often results seem to differ with different tyre sizes too. Early morning and late night shifts for me often mean driving in cold damp/wet weather. So thats were my priorities lie in weighing up tyre choice. However having a tyre that has a bit of a howl isn't that desirable on 400 miles treks down the A1. Drowning it out with Pink Floyd turned up to 11 is only permitted when Mrs Donkey isn't riding shot gun.

 

[Kind of Blue]

I wonder how they behave in the summer. I always used to know when to change my winters, at 7 degrees they were ok, at 10 degrees they were dodgy, at 13 degrees they were downright dangerous and would let go on even slightly damp roundabouts.

I ran winter tyre over the summer and never noticed any of that. Mine had excellent grip throughout the summer. I would say that they were quite sticky.

 

[JOG]

it could be interesting to have a conversation with the manufacturer to get their view! It would cost you nothing but may yield a result

 

[chriscroft]

it could be interesting to have a conversation with the manufacturer to get their view! It would cost you nothing but may yield a result

Nothing to lose,
But the conversation would start off. "I bought a second-hand set of tyres of unknown mileage, and they have worn out"........

 

[JOG]

Nothing to lose,
But the conversation would start off. "I bought a second-hand set of tyres of unknown mileage, and they have worn out"........

Ah! Missed that point....! Makes for a more interesting, if short, conversation!!!

 

[Dieseldonkey]

Close up of one of the rear tyres. Fairly even wear across the board. 5mm tread left. Spot the the bit that's doing the wearing. Spot the bit that's doing the failing.

 

[Dieseldonkey]

My curiosity got the better of me. Response was what I expected.

Can't really argue my case. I mean my car is certainly not 'normal'.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Winter tyres and all season tyres are very much of the same thing. Tread pattens are very similar and so are compounds. It is a matter of proportion. Manufacturers have concentrated on All Season recently because most people only want one set of tyres and do not want to be faffing around with a second set. In the past users of winter tyres would literally swap rubber over on the same rim and then store the other tyres. Winter tyres were a also mainly used on the continent or by people going over on ski trips. British are very conservative and do not like to develop new habits and accept new practices. So sales of winter tyres over here have been slow here. Most are very reluctant and do not see the point as it" does not snow here" Some bright spark came up with the All Season. Its a marketing ploy. Some of the bigger manufacturers can provide A/S Tyres that seam to have better all round performance than lesser manufacturers pure W Tyres. Some of the better manufactures of W Tyres can produce W Tyres that perform very well in the Summer. The overlaps are increasing. There is a lot at stake.

Since the development of the A/S tyre I have noticed that more people are using them. I believe that is a very good thing. If all cars were sold with A/S Tyres the UK would be much safer I feel. People could then elect to have more specialised tyres as the seasons changed but the bulk of people would have A/S Tyres. Ther would be no more road blocks on Motorways due to vehicle not being able to progress due to lack of traction. There should be less excursions off the road and less accidents. Roads would not need so much salting. So there would also be a environmental benefit.

 

[DaveD]

Winter tyres and all season tyres are very much of the same thing. Tread pattens are very similar and so are compounds. It is a matter of proportion. Manufacturers have concentrated on All Season recently because most people only want one set of tyres and do not want to be faffing around with a second set. In the past users of winter tyres would literally swap rubber over on the same rim and then store the other tyres. Winter tyres were a also mainly used on the continent or by people going over on ski trips. British are very conservative and do not like to develop new habits and accept new practices. So sales of winter tyres over here have been slow here. Most are very reluctant and do not see the point as it" does not snow here" Some bright spark came up with the All Season. Its a marketing ploy. Some of the bigger manufacturers can provide A/S Tyres that seam to have better all round performance than lesser manufacturers pure W Tyres. Some of the better manufactures of W Tyres can produce W Tyres that perform very well in the Summer. The overlaps are increasing. There is a lot at stake.

Since the development of the A/S tyre I have noticed that more people are using them. I believe that is a very good thing. If all cars were sold with A/S Tyres the UK would be much safer I feel. People could then elect to have more specialised tyres as the seasons changed but the bulk of people would have A/S Tyres. Ther would be no more road blocks on Motorways due to vehicle not being able to progress due to lack of traction. There should be less excursions off the road and less accidents. Roads would not need so much salting. So there would also be a environmental benefit.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is how I see it:
Most (not all) motorists don't care what rubber is on their wheels until MOT time, then they're only really interested if it might fail the MOT because of tyres. They're more interested in what the Kardashians did yesterday or some other inane drivel.
Millions of motorists buy the cheapest tyre that they can, they never check tyre pressures and they are hopeless at driving in snow or other challenging conditions.
Many people, through no fault of their own, cannot store a set of winter wheels / tyres through the summer, and many others like me, live in the South of England and don't see the need for separate winter and summer tyres. They will not change their wheels twice a year anyway, it's just not justified for many people.
I don't experience the "road blocks on motorways due to vehicle not being able to progress due to lack of traction," although I accept that this may happen in some parts of the UK, but that situation wouldn't be eliminated by the use of all season tyres anyway.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is how I see it:
Most (not all) motorists don't care what rubber is on their wheels until MOT time, then they're only really interested if it might fail the MOT because of tyres. They're more interested in what the Kardashians did yesterday or some other inane drivel.
Millions of motorists buy the cheapest tyre that they can, they never check tyre pressures and they are hopeless at driving in snow or other challenging conditions.
Many people, through no fault of their own, cannot store a set of winter wheels / tyres through the summer, and many others like me, live in the South of England and don't see the need for separate winter and summer tyres. They will not change their wheels twice a year anyway, it's just not justified for many people.
I don't experience the "road blocks on motorways due to vehicle not being able to progress due to lack of traction," although I accept that this may happen in some parts of the UK, but that situation wouldn't be eliminated by the use of all season tyres anyway.

You have not burst my bubble only reinforced what I believe. I absolutely agree that the majority of people do not car about what tyres are and only fit the cheapest. I believe that all Cars should be fitted with All season Tyres by the manufacturer. That All Season be the minimum that can be fitted. That manufacturers stopped providing vehicles with tyres that main design criteria appears to be how many extra tenths of a mile extra they can travel on a gallon of fuel so that the vehicle manufacturer can have some sort of green claim.

I avoid motorways especially in snowy weather because it does not matter how wonderful my tyres are if every prat ahead is wearing slicks and he has there tyres spinning away helplessly in less than an inch of snow which is quite pathetic. In the country many people these days just abandon their vehicles willey nilly on the road, either because the can not find traction, they are too stupid to try and place it in a more sensible place to stop or they are prevented from doing so by some other person who has just abandoned their car and walked away leaving it taking up the road. If every one had better tyres from the start, that it was law to have suitable tyres then these things would be an unlikely occurrence. No need for 2 sets of wheels.