Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

im desperatly waiting for some real world testing for the TN Power Lifepo4

they seem to be flooded the market in the UK for budget Lithium.

cheap . . . . . but are they safe? and any good?


View attachment 58121
Sorry that it took 2 years to provide feedback to @Dellmassive on this, but I thought I'd provide some feedback on my two 110Ah TN Power Lifepo4 batteries which I installed in my caravan-AKA"Mobile Solar Shed (MSS)"

I installed these after my old abused AGM batteries finally died after 7 years of use and the weight saving is massive!

I had the TN Power batteries knocking about my stores at work after they were left over from a job (We are Marine Engineers) and the batteries had been sat (new and boxed) in the stores for over two years. They were somewhat forgotten and had not been touched since they were received in 2020. Despite testing all ok, i couldn't really sell them as they had been hanging about unmaintained and no warranty could be provided on them, so i installed them on the "MSS".

To feedback on the performance of these batteries some background on my install is required. The MSS has full Victron kit installed:
1642233496854.png

I have 350W of solar on the roof and an additional 200W from a mobile panel, when set up on a site.

Our MSS is massively well used. Over the years we have always done a big annual trip to France for the last 7 years, plus normal use in the UK. During our epic French trips, we have always try to split the stays between nice off-grid sites (where we demonstrate the childrens inability to go without Wi-Fi) and terrible (and quite expensive) sites which have EHU. (Due to requirements for Wi-FI, water park type facilities, etc.)

When "Off-Grid" My wife and kids are terrible for using the inverter. They even use toaster and an nespresso machine too which seems to get more use than it should for people trying to enjoy the wilderness! This is what eventually killed my 7 year old Rolls AGM Batteries during an offgrid (UK) trip in the summer of 2021.

I needed batteries in a rush and fitted the two aforementioned TN Power batteries in place of the old Rolls AGM batteries. (Obviously I had to change charging profiles to suite the LifePo4 batteries, but these essentially just got chucked in.)

During a dull and dreary France free trip to Norfolk (Damn you Covid!), I can confirm that the kids and wife thoroughly attempted to spank the living crap out of these batteries. An extra mobile solar suitcase surfaced but alas the Norfolk sun remained incapable of running a hairdryer, toaster, coffee machine, etc! (I am not an idiot and exaggerate the punishment of the batteries a little and I was careful to ensure that I didn't test the BMS of my cheapo TN Power batteries by letting the batteries fully deplete.)

The batteries always charged from my solar setup and even with the poor solar yield the batteries were quick to accept charge.

In October/November 2021, we lived in our caravan whilst we undertook building work at home. The nearest place which is convenient for school, work etc is a pals field and this has no power. We managed 5 weeks with a family of 5 living in the MSS albeit with some inefficient charging via EHU from Ecoflow devices to breath some life into the batteries as I was concerned that the voltage fell below 12.8 volts due to lack of sun at one point.)

The MSS was put away in November with fairly depleted batteries and by Christmas the battery levels fell mega low and the internal BMS cut in disconnecting the loads. (I have no auto low voltage disconnect)

The batteries continued to accept charge from the December daylight (roof solar) and did wake up the batteries pretty much daily, but as soon as the sun went down the unavoidable 5W load on the batteries (and drop in temperature) saw the BMS cut in pretty much every night in December.

Then an unavoidable problem occurred.... it got cold.

The Victron Smart Sense prevents the batteries from charging in 4 degrees or less and guess what?.......It is always cold overnight with clear sky in winter and takes ages to get the battery box above 4 degrees in winter sun.....Hadn't thought of that.

When I rocked up I ran a test - I took the Smart Sense out of the system so that there was no temperature monitoring going on (other that the MPPT internal sensor) and plugged in the EHU. The batteries initially refused to charge presumably due to internal low temp reported by the BMS, but the EHU did allow me to turn on the heating which eventually allowed the batteries to rapidly charge to 14.6V (at 30A) until full and then float at 13.5V.
I've now reinstated my temp sensors as a backup as it's not good relying solely on a battery's BMS.

It is important to note that the disconnecting of loads and inability to charge at low temp is a feature rather than a problem as the internal BMS of these cheap batteries seems to be performing as it should. If it didn't cut the load due to low voltage or accepted charge at low temperatures, then the consequences would be dire!

So I summary I am delighted with them. They seem to do exactly what they should and are cheap.
 
Sorry that it took 2 years to provide feedback to @Dellmassive on this, but I thought I'd provide some feedback on my two 110Ah TN Power Lifepo4 batteries which I installed in my caravan-AKA"Mobile Solar Shed (MSS)"

I installed these after my old abused AGM batteries finally died after 7 years of use and the weight saving is massive!

I had the TN Power batteries knocking about my stores at work after they were left over from a job (We are Marine Engineers) and the batteries had been sat (new and boxed) in the stores for over two years. They were somewhat forgotten and had not been touched since they were received in 2020. Despite testing all ok, i couldn't really sell them as they had been hanging about unmaintained and no warranty could be provided on them, so i installed them on the "MSS".

To feedback on the performance of these batteries some background on my install is required. The MSS has full Victron kit installed:
View attachment 141803

I have 350W of solar on the roof and an additional 200W from a mobile panel, when set up on a site.

Our MSS is massively well used. Over the years we have always done a big annual trip to France for the last 7 years, plus normal use in the UK. During our epic French trips, we have always try to split the stays between nice off-grid sites (where we demonstrate the childrens inability to go without Wi-Fi) and terrible (and quite expensive) sites which have EHU. (Due to requirements for Wi-FI, water park type facilities, etc.)

When "Off-Grid" My wife and kids are terrible for using the inverter. They even use toaster and an nespresso machine too which seems to get more use than it should for people trying to enjoy the wilderness! This is what eventually killed my 7 year old Rolls AGM Batteries during an offgrid (UK) trip in the summer of 2021.

I needed batteries in a rush and fitted the two aforementioned TN Power batteries in place of the old Rolls AGM batteries. (Obviously I had to change charging profiles to suite the LifePo4 batteries, but these essentially just got chucked in.)

During a dull and dreary France free trip to Norfolk (Damn you Covid!), I can confirm that the kids and wife thoroughly attempted to spank the living crap out of these batteries. An extra mobile solar suitcase surfaced but alas the Norfolk sun remained incapable of running a hairdryer, toaster, coffee machine, etc! (I am not an idiot and exaggerate the punishment of the batteries a little and I was careful to ensure that I didn't test the BMS of my cheapo TN Power batteries by letting the batteries fully deplete.)

The batteries always charged from my solar setup and even with the poor solar yield the batteries were quick to accept charge.

In October/November 2021, we lived in our caravan whilst we undertook building work at home. The nearest place which is convenient for school, work etc is a pals field and this has no power. We managed 5 weeks with a family of 5 living in the MSS albeit with some inefficient charging via EHU from Ecoflow devices to breath some life into the batteries as I was concerned that the voltage fell below 12.8 volts due to lack of sun at one point.)

The MSS was put away in November with fairly depleted batteries and by Christmas the battery levels fell mega low and the internal BMS cut in disconnecting the loads. (I have no auto low voltage disconnect)

The batteries continued to accept charge from the December daylight (roof solar) and did wake up the batteries pretty much daily, but as soon as the sun went down the unavoidable 5W load on the batteries (and drop in temperature) saw the BMS cut in pretty much every night in December.

Then an unavoidable problem occurred.... it got cold.

The Victron Smart Sense prevents the batteries from charging in 4 degrees or less and guess what?.......It is always cold overnight with clear sky in winter and takes ages to get the battery box above 4 degrees in winter sun.....Hadn't thought of that.

When I rocked up I ran a test - I took the Smart Sense out of the system so that there was no temperature monitoring going on (other that the MPPT internal sensor) and plugged in the EHU. The batteries initially refused to charge presumably due to internal low temp reported by the BMS, but the EHU did allow me to turn on the heating which eventually allowed the batteries to rapidly charge to 14.6V (at 30A) until full and then float at 13.5V.
I've now reinstated my temp sensors as a backup as it's not good relying solely on a battery's BMS.

It is important to note that the disconnecting of loads and inability to charge at low temp is a feature rather than a problem as the internal BMS of these cheap batteries seems to be performing as it should. If it didn't cut the load due to low voltage or accepted charge at low temperatures, then the consequences would be dire!

So I summary I am delighted with them. They seem to do exactly what they should and are cheap.
awesome feedback . .

now we need to see the pics of the battery's and the setup.

its sounds great. . .

maybe even worth adding to the Advanced Victron Thread? - Victron (#TeamBlue) Advanced Systems + VRM - How We Done It -


++++

i think @Farnorthsurfer has TN Power in his T6 seatbase aswell.


.
 
I'll get some pics next time I'm at the storage yard?
It's not a T6 though!
:uh run:
thats perfect and it doesn't matter for that thread . . .

its all about what can be done with the Victron advanced setup



when your T6 arrives you can do your own Build Thread over here - Show Us Your T6

.
 
thats perfect and it doesn't matter for that thread . . .

its all about what can be done with the Victron advanced setup



when your T6 arrives you can do your own Build Thread over here - Show Us Your T6

.
My work van turned up in October. That build is done and I'm happy with the result:
1642242001708.jpeg
Post #97.

I may do a build thread for when the "family van" is kitted out. @BognorMotors assures me it's now built and on its way! Whoop!

So not long until the "Volkswagon Transporter T30" becomes "online" too:
1642241716371.png
 
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- NEW PRODUCT -

Renogy 200Ah Lithium. - and this time with built in BT.


BT, 100A/200A





I can get you a discount at Renogy United Kingdom



1643395522489.png


DESCRIPTION​

The Renogy Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Bluetooth is designed for the drop-in replacement of deep-cycle lead-acid batteries with its standard BCI group size. Weighing only half of the lead-acid counterparts, the battery can be safely discharged to 100% DOD (Depth of Discharge), delivering twice the energy.

Manufactured with automotive grade battery cells, the battery features the highest safety standards and an extended cycle life. Hosting intelligent software, the advanced BMS (Battery Management System) provides comprehensive protection to the battery. The built-in Bluetooth module enables remote monitoring on mobile devices in real time.

If you have any questions regarding this product, please submit a case.

KEY FEATURES​

  • 【Uncompromising Quality】State-of-the-art battery cells ensure a lifespan of more than 2000 cycles, 200A continuous discharge current, and a wide operating temperature range.
  • 【Easy Upgrades】Upgrades to lithium seamlessly with the standard BCI group size but a greater energy density, a deeper discharge capability, a higher round-trip efficiency, and a faster charging speed.
  • 【Reliable BMS System】The state-of-the-art battery management system (BMS) with high-performance dual-processors provides short circuit, over charging and over-temperature protection while maintaining a balanced voltage across all cells.
  • 【Auto-balancing Function】Easily connect multiple batteries in parallel with the auto-balancing function, improving the average charging efficiency for your batteries in the long term.
  • 【Real-time monitor】Monitors the battery operation status on mobile devices in real time with the built-in Bluetooth module.



1643395575837.png


.
1643395667171.png1643395676536.png1643395686141.png
 
Last edited:
Hi all while I know these batteries are gods gift to RV‘s you don’t have to look far in any direction to realise
I would also like to know if you need to change your current Vw installed charges besides a dc_dc for lithium.

Would you need to change your current chargers etc?
 
Hi all while I know these batteries are gods gift to RV‘s you don’t have to look far in any direction to realise
I would also like to know if you need to change your current Vw installed charges besides a dc_dc for lithium.
What have you got already?

What spec van?. Factory fitted LB?.

Post a few pics.

Normaly you just need to replace the OEM relay for a DC-dc charger.
 
- NEW PRODUCT -

Renogy 100Ah Lithium. - and this time with built in BT.


BT, 50A/100A





£449.99

get 6% off with my code -

I can get you a discount at Renogy United Kingdom


so thats £422.99 delivered


View attachment 145576

.jjjjj

Hmm, my old AGM is pretty knackered I think, maybe it is time for a switch. Anything to be aware of in general on lithium Renogy batteries @Dellmassive? Is the BT SoC accurate, any quirks with sleeping/charging/temperature etc? Are they protected against over-discharge?
 
@t0mb0 nothing to worry about.

The Renogy batterys are great, and do exactly what they say they do.

It's defo worth getting the Bluetooth BT-2 dongle for the monitoring.... Or look at the newer versions with it built in.

No issues with sleep modes as you get a separate plug in button for deep sleep if needed. (The ones I've got. . smart version)

The newer built in BT ip65 version above says it has a shelf mode that's activated after 24hrs.(sleep mode)...but it's a new product so I've done no testing on it.


...


Yes the BMS fully protects everything.


.
 
Last edited:
@Dellmassive I picked up one of the Renogy heated lifepo4 batteries at christmas and am getting around to fitting it now. From what I see, it needs to see at least a 4A charge current before it will initialise the heating circuit... so am I right in thinking this means I should not enable the low temp protection features of my Victrons chargers ... so that when the solar has enough power, it will attempt to charge the battery, but the Renogy BMS should prevent it from charging (and therefore damaging) the battery at very low temps.

I'm a bit nervous, as obviously this means I'm solely relying on the Renogy BMS ... but I guess this is how they've designed it.
 
@Dellmassive I picked up one of the Renogy heated lifepo4 batteries at christmas and am getting around to fitting it now. From what I see, it needs to see at least a 4A charge current before it will initialise the heating circuit... so am I right in thinking this means I should not enable the low temp protection features of my Victrons chargers ... so that when the solar has enough power, it will attempt to charge the battery, but the Renogy BMS should prevent it from charging (and therefore damaging) the battery at very low temps.

I'm a bit nervous, as obviously this means I'm solely relying on the Renogy BMS ... but I guess this is how they've designed it.
Yes correct..... Disable low temp protection on all chargers.

The battery will heat it's self from charging current.

But will block incoming charge untill it's warmer.

I've not tested current below 4A for heater circuit..... I'm assuming it will work below 4A, just slower.... But under full steam it pulls 4A (well 3.4A in my testing)


Have you got the Renogy BT-2 dongle?.... That will show you what the battery is doing
?
 
**************************************************************************

*NEW* Victron - Lithium SuperPack batteries – an all in one solution

Lithium SuperPack batteries - an all in one solution - Victron Energy

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-12,8V-Lithium-SuperPack-EN.pdf

vict-lif-jpg.37870


These new Lithium-Ion, LiFePO4 chemistry batteries are often an ideal replacement for many 12V and 24V add a small inverter to charge power tools, run a small microwave or travel kettle for example. Using one SuperPack battery it matches well with the Phoenix Inverter VE.Direct 250VA – 1200VA range. Maybe you’ll add in around 100 to 200Wp of solar panels too using a small MPPT.

SuperPacks keep everything in one package, by having an integrated BMS and safety switch built-in. No additional components are needed as the internal switch will disconnect the battery in case of over discharge, over charge or high temperature. Simple, compact and safe.

The Lithium SuperPack
Victron Energy’s recently introduced Lithium SuperPack range comes in the following capacities and voltages:

12.8V & 25.6V Lithium SuperPack batteries:
  • 12.8V – 20Ah
  • 12.8V – 60Ah
  • 12.8V – 100Ah
  • 12.8V – 200Ah
Comparison: SuperPack 60Ah LiFePO4 vs 90Ah AGM
Let’s compare the 60Ah Li-ion to say a typical 90Ah AGM battery discharged to the commonly accepted economic cycle life of 50% discharge for lead. That would give us 600 cycles at that DOD for the AGM compared to 2,500 at the even deeper discharge of 80% for the LiFePO4. Already you can see you may need to replace your lead-acid type battery 2 to 4 times as often as the Lithium. Of course loads, operating conditions and calendar life have to be factored in too. Regardless you get the idea – Lithium does more and lasts longer.

The benefits of Lithium don’t stop there though. Whilst LiFePO4 chemistry is considered the safest of them all, it’s worth considering other factors too to decide whether the reduced weight and volume of say NMC is of more importance for your application than LiFePO4 for example. Victron Energy do both types.


YT - Victron Energy

Batteries - Victron Energy

1549528950_upload_documents_775_500-lithium-superpack-12v-200ah-front-angle-png.37871



dimensions:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/12.8V-100Ah-25.6V-50Ah-Lithium-SuperPack.pdf

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/12.8V-200Ah-Lithium-SuperPack.pdf


.


*************

as well as above, looks like they have an internal heater (edit: not sure about a internal heater now, but they do have temperature monitoring and a low temp charge disconnect) . . . . look at the usage temp range. (-10C discharge & +5C charge (internal BMS cold weather charge disconnect) so its fine to run inside the van during a UK winter. which was a concern on the smart blue Lifepo4`s)

no bluetooth is a bummer, but hey. its looking like a very feasible AGM battery bank replacement.

80% DOD,
2500 cycles,
12.8v NV,

Max. cont. discharge current 45A 50A 70A Peak discharge current (10 sec) 80A 100A 100A

Operating temperature Discharge: -10°C to +50°C Charge: +5°C to +45°C

OPERATING CONDITIONS :
Parallel configuration Yes, unlimited
Series configuration No
Operating temperature Discharge: -10°C to +50°C Charge: +5°C to +45°C
Storage temperature -40°C to +65°C
Max. storage time when fully charged 1 year ≤ 25°C 3 months ≤ 40°C
Humidity (non-condensing) Max. 95%
I’m so glad I bought Pilbara mineral (pls on the asx) shares 24months ago for 34c a large linthuim miner now around $3:00
keep buying them brothers
 
new battery is in . . .

Nabbed one on ebay RENOGY 100Ah for £280

Renogy 12V 100Ah SMART LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Battery RBT100LFP12S


1645180475941.png



its arrived dead flat with 0% SoC.

1645180500334.png


plugging in the victron charger, BT-2 dongle and the sleep button . . . its come to life.


1645180536613.png

BMS warnings from the start . .

1645180557583.png

after a few mins . . .

1645180579841.png



so far so good . . .



ill update as the testing continues.,
+++++++++++++
note:
i had to get my own bolts . . .
M8 x 1.0 Fine Pitch 16/20mm
1678428252759.png
++++++++++++++++
 
Last edited:
a few restarts and were are there.

full charged and BMS reset to 100% SOC.

1645264428588.png1645264437826.png
 
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@Mike23864 & @T6ChrisO

Yes thats correct. . .

you can run for double the run time with Lithium vs SLA (AGM/EFB etc)

this is due to you only being able to use the top 50% of the capacity of SLA batteries.


with lithium you can use 100% of the capacity is you wish.

++++++++

another benefit is that lithium has a much better/higher/stronger voltage - which makes your 12v system run more efficient.

also

you can run higher power loads with next to no voltage drop or sag under higher loads - which is better than SLA.


+++++++++

the only thing you need is to swap out the battery AGM for Lithium (with integrated BMS)

check the cables and fuses are all good.

then make sure the charger DC-DC/SOLAR/EHU has a suitable lithium charge profile - (most modern chargers from about 5years ago will have this)
 
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