A Parents Nightmare 'insurance'

[Tourershine]

So, I have two daughters, one who's 17 this year and like her Father, a proper petrol head, and an unrealistic diva. She won't be taking lessons until November when she turns 17, but already she's got her heart set on a certain car, and certain look.

I've just been running through some prices on different cars for her, basing on her having just passed her test.
Now, I knew it was going to be quite a costly experience buying, tweaking and getting her car how she wants it. (oh and gone have the days where we used to have to buy our own cars, and settled for £500 bangers that we just 'did up' ourselves, before anyone says) I probably haven't helped the situation, because i've always encouraged my eldest daughter to not follow the crowd when it comes to cars, plus I actually want her to own a nice looking car as her first.
Also, she's been in private education from the start of school life, and some of the kids there have parents that can buy the moon if they so wished. So she understands that we are not quite in that league, and she can have a car that's nice, but not daft nice or new. The difference between me, and her friends parents, is I know how to make a car stand out, where as they buy them finished off the shelf, and loose them in a carpark because they all look the same.

Now here's the issue as any other parent or young person will totally understand. Insuring a car, or actually any car that's not ready for the scrap yard. She originally wanted a Mini, like her Mother has, but then her friends started getting Mini's. I suggested an older 1 series, but I cannot seem to find a look that I can achieve on a 1 series that doesn't actually look better than what BMW did. We finally settled on an Audi A1. Small, strong, very nice to mod (paintwork, wheels etc) She insists on Black, with Black wheels, and everything gloss Blacked (not sure where she gets her inspiration from)

Anyway, after running her details though a comparison site for rough ideas on costs, I got these rather shocking results, and these prices are the cheapest from the list.

Audi A1 1.4 petrol £4392

2009 BMW 1.6 Petrol £4100

My wives mini cooper SD £4195

MY T6 out of pure curiosity, ready for this...... £10,867 and only 1 insurer would cover.

My mother in laws 2014 Golf Tdi Bluemotion £5685

Lastly, a 2004 Mini one off the internet that's at £900 and failed it's MOT on a list of things that make it more economical to scrap, at the cheapest insurance quote of £1495

I'm sure there will be those of you that do the whole, make her get a job and pay for this herself thing, but as a Father, and a self confessed petrol head, that loves messing around with cars, and even more so for my Daughter, I am totally gutted that todays kids will rarely get to experience what we did when we started driving, and the buzz of owning your first car. I actually wanted to buy her first car, because I can, and my parents couldn't, but even I just cannot justify these types of costs for 12 months cover, and don't know what to actually do now. So back to the drawing board.

 

[Davenjo]

I’m a few years behind you but know Josh will want to be driving as soon as he turns 17.

It may not get you quite the car you are after but have you looked at some sort of lease purchase scheme that includes insurance for young drivers, eg. Marmalade :- Cars And Insurance For Young Drivers

 

[Tourershine]

I haven't thought of that no.
I will have a look for comparison, thanks.

 

[Davenjo]

Let us know how you get on - I have no experience of them other than coming across them when pondering a similar dilemma that I can see looming.

 

[Peatey]

Having been through this with two boys and still going through it with one of them, those prices look about right and i'm being serious.!!!
Our eldest lad had a moped for one year and we managed to move over one years no claim bonus after some negotiation.
One thing to look at is a tracker, it does make a difference and i think most companies insist on, she just needs to get 12 months under her belt with no problems and it makes a hell of a difference, but be very careful of the modifications you make ,insurance companies don't like them, but you don't need me to tell you that. My only one tip would be to hit the phone and talk to companies direct and not the usual big name ones try some of the more smaller ones.
sorry not a great deal of help but i feel your pain

ps. wait to you insure a car on a provisional licence for learning to drive ouch!! Good luck

 

[Pauly]

Pass Plus for a bit of insurance discount with selected insurers (just make sure the selected insurers weren’t 6k to start off with !)
Black boxes ?

 

[Montecha]

I have been through this painful and costly exercise recently.

Son was 17 last year and keen to drive, a neighbour had a really nice Mini One, full service history and well looked after by his daughter who was buying a later model. Didn't think about it so bought it for a good price.

I knew that insurance wouldn't be cheap and budgeted around the £1400 mark with a black box, and managed to find a policy with RAC Black Box at £1250, so all good.

Then the fun started, their App was constantly flagging him as speeding - he was learning and being supervised he was never speeding. We started looking closer and their data was wrong on several local roads and had a couple of national speed limits down as 40s. To cut a long story short, on one of the calls querying the data, I asked how much the insurance would be when he passsed.

'We wont insure him' he has a terrible driving record and the Mini One 1.6 is a hot hatch' - WTF!!

I escalated this and as the agent had been so bloody rude to me, and I knew I was right about the speed limit data and I think they looked on Google maps, they agreed to let me walk away and refund the insurance.

I started shopping around for a price as if he had passed, and of the few quotes I could get the minimum was £2700 with a black box. More than the car. I couldn't get passed paying more for the annual insurance and decided to get off the merry go round.

There are 10 cars that are group 1, they will cost you £1000ish a year with a black box once your daughter passes - same when she is learning.

The cars aren't very exciting; C1, 106, Yaris, Up, Mii, Citigo etc

I found a 2013 Skoda Citigo Sport, that looks a bit more street cred, so chopped in the Mini and insured with Tescos. The policy has a 6k mile annual limit but your earn miles from driving well, he's earned 500 miles in 4 months.

I think unless you have deep pockets the nice cars need to wait a few years, I really rate the Citigo Sport - alloys, satnav, splitter spoiler stripes - it's a great little car (and its a VAG). He was initially gutted when I told him the Mini has to go, but understands the issue and moved on quickly.

Before committing on any car make sure you know how much the insurance will be when they pass, be prepared for shock!

Hope this makes sense!

 

[Neil Nicholls]

I have three sons, 17, 18 and 21. All three ended up starting out in a 1.3 Corsa, which cost around £1600 to insure. My oldest had an accident, and that put it up to around £2500 the next year.
My 18 year old, I got insured on a company van, once he has 1 years ncb, and that cost 2k
There is no getting away from it, its expensive.
My 17 old wjo passed about 2 months ago, and has decided that the Corsa is no longer for him. It was a hand me down from his brother, and has seen better days.
He has actually been driving for a while, off road, and also plant, so has some driving experience.
Weirdly, were picking up his new car today. His choice, a Volvo V50 estate, 2.0 d turbo. An extra £300 on the £ 1600 we paid for the Corsa.
We just compared lots of random cars, and looked at the results on a comparison site. Often, the results are not what you would expect.
A friend has children of a similar age, and had an old golf, which he lowered, without telling his insurance. He got pulled, and the copper went overboard, phoning his insurance company, to see if they covered the modifications. They didn`t, and so he was nicked for no insurance.
He purchased a mark 1 Mini, which then cost over 15k to insure !!!

 

[Tourershine]

Thanks for all the replies.

I knew this wasn't going to be easy or reasonable with costs, but wasn't really prepared for the sort of costs i'm getting.
As a general rule, I wouldn't really want my daughter driving round in something too old, or high miles purely because i'd feel responsible if anything went wrong. We do tend to be a VW family, but the Audi would if been perfect if the insurance wasn't so daft, and thats more of a principal thing than a cost.

She's aware that a black box will be needed, and some companies come with time restrictions, and she's fine with that. I'm just dreading having to tell her that she might have to wait until she's got a years worth of driving under her belt, when she is so looking forward to the independence of a car.

 

[Tourershine]

I’m a few years behind you but know Josh will want to be driving as soon as he turns 17.

It may not get you quite the car you are after but have you looked at some sort of lease purchase scheme that includes insurance for young drivers, eg. Marmalade :- Cars And Insurance For Young Drivers

Just looked through this, and it's basically a PCP deal to get them into a new car by offering free insurance, knowing how hard it is to insure young drivers.
A good idea I guess, but she's not having a new car until she can pay for one.

 

[DaveyB]

My kids are both engaged in the Admiral “Young Driver” scheme. Have no idea if that will help with insurance costs when they pass the test in a few years time.
However, having spent 20 years cutting the bodies of young kids out of cars wrapped around trees and other cars, I am not surprised in the least by the insurance costs. There is a simple fact that 17-25 year olds are the highest group to be KSI’d in RTC’s. The insurance costs have to take account of this because they have to pay out for all the cars that they hit.
What does worry me, is that the dog rough pieces of c**p that they can afford to insure, are unlikely to be overly safe, and stand up to an impact in the way a half decent car would.
It absolutely baffles my mind how you see kids on the road driving around in big Audi’s and Merc’s. Yes there are safer, but the power within them is generally too much for the level of skill of the driver.
My 13 and 11 year old have another driving lesson tomorrow, I can only hope that gaining a respect for driving over an extended period of time will enable them to make better decisions when they are finally licenced to drive on the roads. I think back to my days as a 17 year old and Christ knows how I didn’t end up as one of those statistics.

 

[Tourershine]

Yeah same here, the only difference being the volume of traffic on the roads now. couple that with the lack of visual police cars, overworked and stressed drivers that are often late, and the general selfish nature of modern drivers, i'm glad I don't have to start driving now, and i'm only early 40's.

I get the reasons why insurance costs are higher for younger drivers, but don't agree that the cost ratio is proportionate for this age range when comparing with say the much older generation. My father in law who's now passed away, was in his 70's and his driving was awful! He often knocked off wing mirrors, hit other cars or things in carparks, and generally drove like he couldn't actually see anything, yet his insurance was always a few hundred quid.

Yes we often see the odd young driver being daft, but in my experience and the 1000's of miles I do every week, it's not the young that are causing the majority of problems on the roads, it's my age bracket in big powerful cars on a mission to get where we need to be regardless of who's in the way, but I cannot argue with statistics.

 

[Ed Webb]

When I turned 16 I got a job at the local co-op first pay check was used to buy a bike and that was used all year round no matter the weather. At 17 my wages went on lessons, 2 hours a week for a few months . Test passed with 1 minor. Had to ride the bike a further 18 months before I could afford to spend £800 on a Peugeot 306 and £1400 for the insurance. Repairs and running costs were all paid by me, dad bought me a haynes manual and would help with repairs where possible to save garage fees and teach me basic mechanics.

 

[Tourershine]

A time gone by and sadly missed Ed.
You and I, and I suspect many members on here are from that exact school of knocks, and I enjoyed the time my Dad spent teaching me what I now use today. This is the age of easy finance and banks throwing money at you, making this a throw away society and the days of giving the local tip manager £5 for an old rusty bike that we can fix up is long gone.
Christ, I sound like my Dad.

 

[Montecha]

My lad did the Young Driver lessons, but Admiral didn't come out as one of the best prices. It would have been competitive on their Multicar policy, but they wouldn't insure my modified T6

Totally agree on how things have changed. Most of today's youngsters have to be sensible, especially if they have a Black Box fitted. Typically there's some agressive middle aged bloke in a Range Rover or Audi (other cars are available) right up his backside when he slows down for a speed restriction, who then flick the 'bird' as they overtake and cut him up. The Tesco Box seems to be happy in the +10%-15% of any limit, which to be honest is safe and reasonable. But they can become a bit of a target of agression.

Lots of the Ins Group 1 cars have a 5 star NCAP rating, and the resale is good on them when they eventually move up

 

[DPS]

I am rather surprised that the theme of this thread has been about how 'shocking' motor insurance premiums are for young drivers. The reality is that young, inexperienced drivers are very high risk, not only to themselves but to all other road users. My son bought his first car when he was 17 and driving on a provisional licence. He had lessons with a driving school but his own car was used for practise. When he was 16 he went on a young driver's course run by the police and local council.The car he bought was a Skoda Fabia 1.2, very basic spec. and cost £3000 with only 13,000 miles on the clock (little old lady's car). His insurance from the outset, even when on his provisional licence, was £1100 with a black box, via Tesco. He never had any issues with the information relayed by the black box. He was 17 years and 4 months when he passed his test. When his insurance was due for renewal he changed his insurance to Liverpool Victoria who insured him for £950 without a black box. He is now 21 and about to finish university and still has his little Skoda; he is now insured to keep the car on the road outside his digs and his premium last time was £292 through Elephant, who are part of the Admiral group. When he finishes university, with our help, he is going to treat himself to a 'better' car; he has now been driving for 4 years and deserves one. He has no claims or points.
Having been a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists for over 40 years I have been involved in many debates about driving safety and the reality is that inexperienced drivers, regardless of age, are high risk, but as DaveyB points out, those aged 17-25 are the highest risk of all. For those of you who have difficulty understanding why premiums for young drivers are so high it might be worth reading these articles:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6283224/Drink-drive-schoolgirl-jailed-over-friends-death-in-crash.html
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/14/rac-highlights-teenage-driver-death-toll

 

[superflyguy]

I must be lucky, my daughter doesn't seem bothered about even taking lessons , and would rather use her bike

 

[Loz]

Have a look at cuvva, you can by insurance buy the hour but with a membership that earns you no claims discount.
https://www.cuvva.com

 

[Sjacko20]

Went through this with our eldest a couple of years ago, thankfully she isn’t car image orientated. Grandparents bought her an 08 panda as they are pennies to maintain and group 1.

Insurance was with Admiral on a 10mth NCD accelerator policy including a black box as they would insure under her name from the start of her learning so accumulated NCD straight away which overall saved about £600 as she didn’t need to cancel and start again after passing her test. It took a lot of searching to find one that would insure her on her own policy and only increase the insurance for the remainder of the current year not making her start all over again. Overall cost was about £1000 and now down to about £700 pa

I feel your pain, good luck.

 

[Tourershine]

Sussed it after hours of research.
Dropped the yearly miles to from 10,000 to 7000. Changed the Audi from a 1.4 to a 1.2, and added my wife as a named driver and now the quotes are coming back at around £1400, which seems absolutely bizarre, but i've checked and double checked all the details and info are correct, and they are.
A little more of a realistic price for her, and a little less stress off my shoulders, plus a car that I feel is safe and reliable.

For those above that have the older kids, does life actually get any easier the older they get?