2016 180 Bi turbo CFCA engine failure is the EGR valve corrosion the cause of the scored and worn out bores

[venables]

Pauly is correct don't kill the messenger VW has known about this problem and cause of failure with the CFCA 180 engine for many years since about 2014, I had read the reports of these engines failing and the theories as to why but as it had not affected me or the five 180s I have owned it was of no concern to me. Unfortunately, most people have to rely on the dealer to diagnose the problem and fix it by fitting a new engine and they are never told the facts or truth as to why or see any evidence of the failure as it is never disclosed to them. Fortunately, for me, I had another 204 DSG so was not under pressure to get this 180 back on the road, and as an engineer, I wanted to know the reason for such an early failure also the £10,000 engine replacement cost encouraged me to rebuild the engine myself and I am glad I did as I can now shed some light on the issue to help others in making decisions about the CFCA 180 whether it be to purchase one in the first place and take a chance that all will be well or do modifications to prevent the problem reoccurring on your £10,000 new replacement engine.
Only after striping down the engine and examining the damaged and failed components can you find the reason for the failure in the first place after doing this I realized I was told a crock of s--t by the VW main dealer who had serviced this vehicle from new I will share my finding with all so they understand the cause and any preventative measures that may prolong the life of a 180 CFCA engine but it will take time so bear with me.

 

[DXX]

Pauly is correct don't kill the messenger VW has known about this problem and cause of failure with the CFCA 180 engine for many years since about 2014, I had read the reports of these engines failing and the theories as to why but as it had not affected me or the five 180s I have owned it was of no concern to me. Unfortunately, most people have to rely on the dealer to diagnose the problem and fix it by fitting a new engine and they are never told the facts or truth as to why or see any evidence of the failure as it is never disclosed to them. Fortunately, for me, I had another 204 DSG so was not under pressure to get this 180 back on the road, and as an engineer, I wanted to know the reason for such an early failure also the £10,000 engine replacement cost encouraged me to rebuild the engine myself and I am glad I did as I can now shed some light on the issue to help others in making decisions about the CFCA 180 whether it be to purchase one in the first place and take a chance that all will be well or do modifications to prevent the problem reoccurring on your £10,000 new replacement engine.
Only after striping down the engine and examining the damaged and failed components can you find the reason for the failure in the first place after doing this I realized I was told a crock of s--t by the VW main dealer who had serviced this vehicle from new I will share my finding with all so they understand the cause and any preventative measures that may prolong the life of a 180 CFCA engine but it will take time so bear with me.

You‘re right I was harsh, sorry for that. My van has been very reliable and I probably keep it until the Gov’ force it off the road anyway.
I’ve had limited dealings with VW, simply using up a service package that came with the van. In that time I’ve heard some dubious BS spouted by VW Service Managers and fortunately I’ve not had any further reason to deal with them.

The only constant issue is a leaking side window, somewhat frustrating as after spending 10 years working on submarines I can’t keep the water out of a van!

 

[venables]

Hi All of my vans have had that problem too including the one I have now but I have not had the time to investigate the cause and fix the problem something to look into though thanks for your reply

 

[Linoleum Bonypart]

Needs to be a joint action …. Vehicle not fit for purpose

 

[venables]

I think I will try small claims court first. £10,000 will just about cover the cost of rebore, cylinder head strip, & rebuild, new pistons, new injectors, EGR valve, bearings,gaskets, new stretch bolts, heater plugs, oil pump oil and filters, new turbos, and labor and all the special tools needed but will not cover time spent looking for the cause to bring a case

 

[Mark62]

I think I will try small claims court first. £10,000 will just about cover the cost of rebore, cylinder head strip, & rebuild, new pistons, new injectors, EGR valve, bearings,gaskets, new stretch bolts, heater plugs, oil pump oil and filters, new turbos, and labor and all the special tools needed but will not cover time spent looking for the cause to bring a case

Hi, mine is no smoking and seems to start and drive fine, but it's using a litre of oil every 1200 miles here's the results I received for conpression test and oil analysing test.

 

[DXX]

20ppm Alum is the acceptable max limit, looks like you have already suffered some engine damage. It’s not a situation that stabilises or improves. Worn components generate more wear at an ever increasing rate.

 

[Mark62]

20ppm Alum is the acceptable max limit, looks like you have already suffered some engine damage. It’s not a situation that stabilises or improves. Worn components generate more wear at an ever increasing rate.

Hi Thank you for that. I bought the van on the 28th May this year from a dealer and sent them the results, I'm in the process of claiming against them and I've spoken to a specialist engineer about it and he informed me that if it goes to court its very hard to prove that issue was prior to me buying it as the judge will not know a thing about engines and will only act on 100% proof that it was already a problem prior to me buying it. So if I loose I'll be in for a hefty bill with all the court costs. Its just no fair, its a 2013 edition 25 molel with 69000 miles and I paid £32,000 for it. The van itself is split mint, but obviously has the engine problem.

 

[DXX]

Hi Thank you for that. I bought the van on the 28th May this year from a dealer and sent them the results, I'm in the process of claiming against them and I've spoken to a specialist engineer about it and he informed me that if it goes to court its very hard to prove that issue was prior to me buying it as the judge will not know a thing about engines and will only act on 100% proof that it was already a problem prior to me buying it. So if I loose I'll be in for a hefty bill with all the court costs. Its just no fair, its a 2013 edition 25 molel with 69000 miles and I paid £32,000 for it. The van itself is split mint, but obviously has the engine problem.

I wish it were better news. Maybe have a word with Trading Standards, possibly the dealer has had some previous complaints.
The oil sample analysis is obviously backing up the compression test results but normally it’s very important to have the oil hours / mileage in the data, I see that was omitted in the report you posted. Having the oil mileage provides an indication of the rate of wear when you have a series of analyses.
A high level of fuel dilution really isn’t helping matters, probably caused by poor combustion / worn rings.
Good luck.

 

[Mark62]

I wish it were better news. Maybe have a word with Trading Standards, possibly the dealer has had some previous complaints.
The oil sample analysis is obviously backing up the compression test results but normally it’s very important to have the oil hours / mileage in the data, I see that was omitted in the report you posted. Having the oil mileage (provides an indication of the rate of wear when you have a series of analyses.
A high level of fuel dilution really isn’t helping matters, probably caused by poor combustion / worn rings.
Good luck.

Thank you, already sent 2 letters via trading standards advice. but dealer said what did I expected out of this and I said new engine and he said you'll never get that it's a 2013 second hand van. So obviously I've took it further, and he said he's passed it on to the legal team they deal with. So basically that's where I'm at at the minute. £11,000 I was quoted for vw rebuild engine in its original block to carry the original engine number.

 

[Mark62]

Thank you, already sent 2 letters via trading standards advice. but dealer said what did I expected out of this and I said new engine and he said you'll never get that it's a 2013 second hand van. So obviously I've took it further, and he said he's passed it on to the legal team they deal with. So basically that's where I'm at at the minute. £11,000 I was quoted for vw rebuild engine in its original block to carry the original engine number.

The van came with fully service history some vw a d last 5 years with an indy, but strangely enough the last 2 services it had a engine flush, and then I picked up no evidence of a DSG gearbox oil and filter change at the reccomended 40,000 so I've had to pay for that to be done as well, plus a reccomended oil and filter change done after the oil analysis report, its just draining money out of me. I Cashed a pension in to buy thi van

 

[Mark62]

The van came with fully service history some vw a d last 5 years with an indy, but strangely enough the last 2 services it had a engine flush, and then I picked up no evidence of a DSG gearbox oil and filter change at the reccomended 40,000 so I've had to pay for that to be done as well, plus a reccomended oil and filter change done after the oil analysis report, its just draining money out of me. I Cashed a pension in to buy thi van

One other thing I've noticed since having the gearbox oil change done, there's not such a delay when setting off and it's definitely smother through the gear changes.

 

[P1cko]

So glad i got shot of my 180. Now rocking a 150, still not the most reliable beast but it’s faults don’t tent to be terminal. FYI the 180 also suffers from the DPF blocking causing injectors blowing fuel past the rings filling up the sump with fuel and eventually blowing up due thin oil as well as, EGR problems, turbo problems, injector problems, random smoking and oil leaks 15 years as a Tec for vw really puts you off 180tys

 

[venables]

Hi Mark
Looks like you have taken the correct approach in getting a set of compression readings and an oil sample analysis but DXX is correct in his comments the components affected can only deteriorate to a point of failure how long is the question?
The iron content is probably from the worn engine bores the alloy is most likely from the pistons your compression readings are low and the deviation is almost at the max.
below from Manuel

Compression pressures:
New: 25…31 bar 362.....450 psi
Wear limit: 19 bar 275 psi
Maximum permissible difference between all cylinders: 5 bar 72 psi

couple this with your oil consumption another CFCA will bite the dust
I noticed fuel dilution of less than 10 % my injector tips were damaged and fouled up on the outside which stops fuel from being atomized properly leading to piston erosion due to the crownes melting and unburnt fuel contaminates your oil

 

[Mark62]

Hi Mark
Looks like you have taken the correct approach in getting a set of compression readings and an oil sample analysis but DXX is correct in his comments the components affected can only deteriorate to a point of failure how long is the question?
The iron content is probably from the worn engine bores the alloy is most likely from the pistons your compression readings are low and the deviation is almost at the max.
below from Manuel

Compression pressures:
New: 25…31 bar 362.....450 psi
Wear limit: 19 bar 275 psi
Maximum permissible difference between all cylinders: 5 bar 72 psi

couple this with your oil consumption another CFCA will bite the dust
I noticed fuel dilution of less than 10 % my injector tips were damaged and fouled up on the outside which stops fuel from being atomized properly leading to piston erosion due to the crownes melting and unburnt fuel contaminates your oil

Hi Venables, does this mean that I need a complete new Engine then.

 

[venables]

Hi Mark
I think it is only a matter of time till it fails given the evidence you have presented but you could not put a time scale on it our one was a 2016 model and failed at just 44000 full-service histories with the main dealer from which it was purchased they told us the engine had been hydraulicked crock of s..t it had worn out due to the debris from the EGR cooler destroying the bores and pistons.
The knock-on effect of this damages the injectors' turbos particulate filter oil pump and possibly all the bearings if the metal particles get past the oil filter so a new engine including all of the above is the only proper fix but then you still have to blank off EGR or it will all happen again.

 

[DXX]

Hi Venables, does this mean that I need a complete new Engine then.

If it’s your only form of transport you need to decide whether to sell, repair engine or exchange the engine soon.
If you have another car then IMO it’s better not to drive the van until you’ve decided what to do. The turbocharger assembly is expensive and you just may have caught it early enough to refurbish instead of replace.
If you keep the van it’s going to cost you a ‘short’ engine or an engine repair, obviously the longer you drive it the higher the repair cost will be.
@venables has been involved in a CFCA rebuild and probably has a good insight into the pros / cons of repair over replacement short engine.
IMO if you can’t do the engine overhaul yourself (free labour) the short engine should work out cheaper.

 

[Mark62]

If it’s your only form of transport you need to decide whether to sell, repair engine or exchange the engine soon.
If you have another car then IMO it’s better not to drive the van until you’ve decided what to do. The turbocharger assembly is expensive and you just may have caught it early enough to refurbish instead of replace.
If you keep the van it’s going to cost you a ‘short’ engine or an engine repair, obviously the longer you drive it the higher the repair cost will be.
@venables has been involved in a CFCA rebuild and probably has a good insight into the pros / cons of repair over replacement short engine.
IMO if you can’t do the engine overhaul yourself (free labour) the short engine should work out cheaper.

Once the engine is out can I then prove to the dealer that the engine had this problem when I bought it on the 28th May this year. Also what sort of cost would it be for a garage to remove the engine and rebuild it in its origanal block.

Regards Mark

 

[Mark62]

Once the engine is out can I then prove to the dealer that the engine had this problem when I bought it on the 28th May this year. Also what sort of cost would it be for a garage to remove the engine and rebuild it in its origanal block.

Regards Mark

So no point paying to have the new Egr cooler fitted to thi engine then.

 

[Mark62]

So no point paying to have the new Egr cooler fitted to thi engine then.

Is it worth me booking my van in at a vw garage for a cylinder leakage test and get a written report from them on their findings.