New Road Fund proposals
- Thread starter Andy McCannick
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- road tax
What's interesting in the detail is that normally VED changes are not retrospective and I assumed when these where announced that would be the same.
I hate the term Zero emissions to categorise EVs, they are hardly any better than modern internal combustion vehicles when you take into account production, charging and the greater mass. The greater weight/mass of these vehicles causes much more road damage, as well as an increased strain on infrastructure, such as car parks.
Agreed the change was coming as soon as EV was a significant fraction of the vehicles, but the retrospective nature was a surprise. Makes it much more obvious it's just general taxation than previous changes.
I don't think the moderate increase in EV mass will cause much change given the significantly higher mass of goods transport that's already there.
The interesting one is going to be fuel duty and how you replace that without causing bad side effects. Try and have a separate meter (the direct equivalent) and you are going to get any number of dangerous situations where people try and jury rig high power feeds to avoid it. Charge just the high current chargers and you put an unreasonable burden on those that can't charge at home.
For per mile charging I don't think the consent would be there for active telematics and the admin and cost of something like taco systems probably precludes those. I've seen suggestions that an annual charge based on the mileage at MOT may be the most pragmatic.
As they say interesting times. I think pretty much every country is waiting to see who blinks first to see what works.
I don't think the moderate increase in EV mass will cause much change given the significantly higher mass of goods transport that's already there.
The interesting one is going to be fuel duty and how you replace that without causing bad side effects. Try and have a separate meter (the direct equivalent) and you are going to get any number of dangerous situations where people try and jury rig high power feeds to avoid it. Charge just the high current chargers and you put an unreasonable burden on those that can't charge at home.
For per mile charging I don't think the consent would be there for active telematics and the admin and cost of something like taco systems probably precludes those. I've seen suggestions that an annual charge based on the mileage at MOT may be the most pragmatic.
As they say interesting times. I think pretty much every country is waiting to see who blinks first to see what works.
Taking power illegally from overhead power lines for free is remarkably easy and not as dangerous as we in the wealthy countries might imagine. It’s the norm in many parts of the world and it doesn’t have to be a permanent connection which is easier to detect. In some countries 50% of power generated is stolen.
While 47% of our electricity comes from burning gas and a further 8% from burning wood (mostly imported), it's misleading to talk about any car as "zero emissions".
It is said that the highway damage is proportional to fourth power of mass. So a typical EV based on a one tonne car lugging another tonne of batteries could cause 16 times the damage of its non EV cousin. Yes this is less than large comercial vehicles but cars are much more populous especially on local roads.
Then we have structures like multi story car parks that are often now inadequate for the increased loadings.
Example reference
No vehicle is zero emissions.
The other one people don’t realise is all the particle pollution from vehicle tyres - micro plastics galore.
So even if we all switched we’d still be inhaling stuff that causes chronic inflammation and quite possibly cancer.
Not just the loadings but they can’t safely house charging stations in large numbers and the way EVs burn if they do catch fire means you need a higher factor of safety in your structure.
Based on 1950's research the damage to roads is thought to be proportional to the 4th power of Axle Load (not total vehicle mass). And EVs do not generally have twice the axle load of equivalent non-EVs. For instance a BMW series 3 Is between 1.57 and 1.96 Tonnes and a Tesla Model 3 is between 1.72 and 1.84 tonnes. Or perhaps a Vauxhall Mokka at 1.59 Tonnes compared to a Nissan Leaf at 1.78 tonnes. Or then perhaps a T6 T32 (as I drive as well as my Tesla!) at about 2.6 tonnes! (All values approximate, unloaded, divide by 2 for Axle Load for given examples).
So lets get our facts right!
Secondly please remember that Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) is not a hypothecated tax. It does NOT fund road repairs. It is just general taxation and goes to the exchequer for whatever purpose they wish to spend it on. Raising VED in any form, and on any vehicles, DOES NOT repair potholes or improve road surfaces.
However I have been involved with EVs since 2008 and am on record as saying that at some point EVs will have to contribute to the tax take. So taxing EVs is needed but perhaps it is time to tax all cars differently to encourage the use of the right vehicle for the right purpose.
Renewables are a bigger % overall now, on a par with fossil fuels, and biomass at 5% over the last year. This mix will continue to swing to renewables.
Source National Grid data, conveniently graphed here (it links direct to live generation data, which makes my inner nerd very happy)
National Grid: Live
Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network
grid.iamkate.com
For some reason nobody compares the increasing sizes of average family cars with increased wear and tear on the roads but automatically assume that the EV is going to be an electric SUV weighing at least another ton and not a Corsa e or Id3.
Carpark spaces aren't big enough for the modern love affair with the Chelsea tractor let alone multistorey carparks built in the 60s for Ford Anglia's and Morris Minor collapsing under the weight of these 2 ton plus four person cars, in fact they rarely complain when a Q7 or I Pace parks centre of two bays as obviously the bays are too small and not the bloated cars fault.
I've not got an EV but I'm not afraid of them, they don't stink when you're stuck behind them in traffic, they can't be remapped to sound like an AK-47 when some dickhead drives everywhere at 30 in second gear so he can keep his pops and bangs on the go. Basically apart from not wanting to part with the money I'm ready for an Id Buzz camper and you can stick the internal combustion engine in the Transport Museum where it belongs.
Carpark spaces aren't big enough for the modern love affair with the Chelsea tractor let alone multistorey carparks built in the 60s for Ford Anglia's and Morris Minor collapsing under the weight of these 2 ton plus four person cars, in fact they rarely complain when a Q7 or I Pace parks centre of two bays as obviously the bays are too small and not the bloated cars fault.
I've not got an EV but I'm not afraid of them, they don't stink when you're stuck behind them in traffic, they can't be remapped to sound like an AK-47 when some dickhead drives everywhere at 30 in second gear so he can keep his pops and bangs on the go. Basically apart from not wanting to part with the money I'm ready for an Id Buzz camper and you can stick the internal combustion engine in the Transport Museum where it belongs.
I'm not sure that those of us that choose to use a heavier than a car van as a daily drive really have a point in this argument...
Mostly in jest but glasshouses and all that
