Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

still waiting for some real-world testing and YT vids . . . . . but they look good from the spec sheet.

there lithium so charge rate is speced at 20Ah plus for each. . . . (you can use less , , , , ,. it will just take longer)
 
I've emailed tech support, as there seems to be some confusion about the listed ratings.

The alternator feed wire is listed as 75A cable with 60A fuse . . . . for a 50A draw?

but spec says 25A+25A @ 50A

yet Renogy have said 50A with no solar . . . . . . so we need clarification.
Don't want to pressure you as I know you're busy but did you get a definitive answer... do you get the full 50v if there is no solar charging connected? I do hope so especially as it's either 4 awg or 6 awg which is quite meaty... and I don't want to live with charging anxiety... lol
 
2x TN Power 12.8V 100AH Lithium Batteries

What's peoples thoughts on these? Would the victron set-up mentioned earlier be enough to charge 2 of these batteries?

Also, thanks for everyones input in to this great thread!!
Interesting, I was looking at the same battery but the 1008Watt Hr version, (84Amp Hr)
TN Power 12.8V 84Ah Lithium Leisure Battery for Camper Motorhome Boat

Very reasonably priced and I have [yet to fit] Victron Orion-Tr Smart 12 12-30 which I'm lead to believe is matched for Lithium and smart alternator.
I could always upgrade to a second in the future if I needed more power.
 
Don't want to pressure you as I know you're busy but did you get a definitive answer... do you get the full 50v if there is no solar charging connected? I do hope so especially as it's either 4 awg or 6 awg which is quite meaty... and I don't want to live with charging anxiety... lol
No official reply from Renogy yet . . .

But the install guide clearly states that you should use a 75A fuse on a 6awg or 4awg. . .

Dc-dc Charger (for Leisure Battery) -- How I Done It --

upload_2019-11-20_13-45-0-png.54978


so going from that and the snippets from the Renogy forum im going to say it does 50A from alternator . . . .


the email I've sent them (twice now) asks for clarification:

**********************************************

Hi guys

We seem to be having some confusion with this new product.
DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC ON-BOARD BATTERY CHARGER WITH MPPT

https://www.renogy.com/dcc50s-12v-50a-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/
the spec mentions 25A from MPPT and 25A from alternator giving 50A max throughput…

but there is a mention of 50A throughput from alternator only . . . . ?

so please can you clarify these specs.
Is the MAX solar mppt 25A?
is the max alternator 25A or 50A?
what about if I connect any the below panels? . . . what split output will I get?
If the MAX alternator throughput is 50A? and I add 10A worth of solar? . . . will this work out to 10A solar + 40A alternator?
please can you clear up the below and if each line is correct or incorrect

0A solar mppt & 50A alt = 50A total output
5A solar mppt & 45A alt = 50A total output
10A solar mppt & 40A alt = 50A total output
20A solar mppt & 30A alt = 50A total output
25A solar mppt & 25A alt = 50A total output
30A solar mppt & 20A alt = 50A (or will it be limited to 25A solar & 25A alt?)
40A solar mppt & 10A alt = 50A (or will it be limited to 25A solar & 25A alt?)
Many thanks




**************************************************
 
No official reply from Renogy yet . . .

But the install guide clearly states that you should use a 75A fuse on a 6awg or 4awg. . .

Dc-dc Charger (for Leisure Battery) -- How I Done It --

upload_2019-11-20_13-45-0-png.54978


so going from that and the snippets from the Renogy forum im going to say it does 50A from alternator . . . .


the email I've sent them (twice now) asks for clarification:

**********************************************

Hi guys

We seem to be having some confusion with this new product.
DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC ON-BOARD BATTERY CHARGER WITH MPPT

https://www.renogy.com/dcc50s-12v-50a-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/
the spec mentions 25A from MPPT and 25A from alternator giving 50A max throughput…

but there is a mention of 50A throughput from alternator only . . . . ?

so please can you clarify these specs.
Is the MAX solar mppt 25A?
is the max alternator 25A or 50A?
what about if I connect any the below panels? . . . what split output will I get?
If the MAX alternator throughput is 50A? and I add 10A worth of solar? . . . will this work out to 10A solar + 40A alternator?
please can you clear up the below and if each line is correct or incorrect

0A solar mppt & 50A alt = 50A total output
5A solar mppt & 45A alt = 50A total output
10A solar mppt & 40A alt = 50A total output
20A solar mppt & 30A alt = 50A total output
25A solar mppt & 25A alt = 50A total output
30A solar mppt & 20A alt = 50A (or will it be limited to 25A solar & 25A alt?)
40A solar mppt & 10A alt = 50A (or will it be limited to 25A solar & 25A alt?)
Many thanks




**************************************************
Lol... only you is quite so specific!! Thank you from all of us
Who's interested in this,.. but it does sound like shifty advertising
 
New WIFI battery powered Temperature sensor released from LASCAR . . . . . . =]

battery powered (2yrs) and can be fitted in the van and will send you email alerts of over/under temp alarms. . . . works via wifi, so you could connect it to your home/work wifi or even you MIFI in the van if you have it.

Wireless Alert

Wireless Alert TP Temperature Alert System

https://www.filesthrutheair.com/dow...ess-alert_tp_datasheet_issue_3_11-11-2019.pdf

upload_2019-12-4_12-3-47.png




i just added one to my cart . . . . . but im not paying £8 for shipping !!!

sorry LANSAR - maybe when its on Amazon or ebay.
 
Hard to recycle oil in less than a few million years?
Limited resources point taken and appreciated though:)
 
If this turns out to be true this would’ve massive, though I’m slightly sceptical as the companies involved in research keep putting our press releases claiming to be making breakthroughs just so they’re not regarded as dropping behind the others to keep the investment flowing in.
Still, 80% in 5 mins is the stuff of dreams for EV use if it does pan out.
 
Some interesting LifePO4 details from Battle Born & Will P

Long story Short:
BB make decent batteries,
they self discharge @ 1-2% per month, (important for storage)
they like comfortable ambient temps, (keeps a good total cycles)
they dont like extreme temps, (will shorten total cycles)
LTD is a real thing . . . . but Lifpoe4 "can" be charged at very "slow" rates when very cold,
Lifepo4 should be stored at any % providing it doesn't go flat before re-use, (important for storage)
Lifepo4 must never be run flat and left flat. (will damage cells)
BB will be adding internal heaters to battery's for cold climates, (LTD is a thing)
BB sell heat mats etc for cold temps. (LTD is a thing)


Home - Battle Born Batteries

https://amzn.to/2SVPay5



upload_2020-1-6_9-23-29.png


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Battle Born Manual

Battle Born Batteries Warranty

Download Spec Sheet Here

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Renogy "Smart" 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery Tear Down




I watched that yesterday, And I was quite impressed with the build quality, I had a look this morning and we can get them for $699 AUD on pre order.

I’m looking forwards to see if they replace there current 170ah battery with the new smart range.

it’s good to see pricing getting better
 
im desperatly waiting for some real world testing for the TN Power Lifepo4

they seem to be flooded the market in the UK for budget Lithium.

cheap . . . . . but are they safe? and any good?


upload_2020-1-12_12-54-1.png
 
Hey @Dellmassive, completely new to the world of camper electrics (and campers for that fact, we've had our T6 about a month) so please excuse any naivety here but spent the passed couple of days trying to educate myself on this forum, as we're nearing that point of our self-build conversion and I need to get a handle on it.

Spent many hours trying to get my head round this extremely detailed & helpful post and your other diagram post. Right now as it's our first camper, we have no real world experience of our consumption profile but expect obvious 12v loads to be fridge, lights, phones etc. plus an inverter for laptops, camera batteries etc.

As we're starting from scratch with an empty panel van i.e. no legacy systems or investment in other tech, provided i find a decent size battery (thats not stating an equivalent to AGM AH) it seems like Lithium may be the sensible way to go, to future proof us for the long term, give us more useable real world AH/time between charges and quicker charging if we're only doing shorter journeys between stops.

(Caveat - we still have a decision to make on underslung LPG which could run the fridge, night heater, gas hob. This is being weighed up vs Planar diesel heater and electric everything else - i.e. fridge and induction hob which would dramatically change our usage profile - but lets set that aside for now!).

Reading the thread all was looking good, then ran into the issue of low temp / low battery cut-off's to protect the battery and suggested workarounds, which is where things started to get a little complicated. Then Renogy come along and seem to simplify everything!

So I 'think' I'm starting to make sense of it again... from what i can gather, to simplify this setup, the Renogy box means I could remove the need for the separate MPPT for the solar (rely on the Renogy built-in controller), remove the BMV Temp sensor, LBP sensor - the BM2 in your diagram is presumably a battery monitor so still needed but guess the Victron App goes as that is part of the DC-DC charger and would be replaced with the Renogy box?

Where are you up to with the Renogy box, any real world experience with it yet? If you were starting out again now, would you put that at the centre of your setup with Lithium?

Any plans to update the Lithium setup diagram to include the Renogy box and remove the technically redundant elements for clarity?

Just attempting to make sure i fully understand this before we start down the road of actually sourcing some of these bits...
 
Rapt0rUK... I've been trying to get my head around all this for six months and I still feel like I'm a novice and things are changing all the time... for the better, but have you considered saving money and not getting a solar power or electric hook-up as a 100ah lithium battery can be charged fully with just a 2-hour drive on a 50A dc dc charger. You could even get a bigger battery with the money saved!

Also less items of of Kit equals less things to go wrong and less things to install and more room to fit them. No need for a 20 metre electric hook-up cable and how much solar can you get in this weather/ time of year?!
 
Last edited:
hi @Rapt0rUK

welcome to the Money pit of T6`s and campers =]

just a quick reply . . .

LTD is only relevant at very low temps, when the battery is below 0degc, I've been monitoring the battery temps and so far this year (2019 through into 2020) its not gone near that low (though its not snowed yet in London, and Feb is normally the coldest month). . . . so you could just use a simple/cheap isolator switch to disable charging at very low temps? - unless your planing trips abroad? in which-case the automatic solutions mentioned may be relevant. one interesting thing the Battleborn vid above revealed was that the battery's CAN be charged at or below 0degC, but at a "lower" rate. - so LTD may not be important in the UK for 90% of the time. (but we have to cater for people that travel to cold places where LTD is relevent most of the time so I've shown it on here)

The Renogy has it all built in (including LTD) and MPPT, so 25/25A solar/DC-DC is a good all in one solution. im testing as we speak so keep an eye out for results. - so yes the Renogy is a simplified solution. (DC-DC+MTTP+Lifepo4 with LTD)

For me personally i really love the Victron solar controllers and monitoring APP so i would still keep the MPPT and run it parallel to the Renogy DC-DC.

I would still keep the LBP if you are running Lithium, though its not essential and can be added at any point down the line (most Lithium internal BMS`s have and emergancy LBP but all advise an external unit to ensure a Long battery life if the chances of running the battery low often (fairly possible if wild camping).

The BM2 are great battery voltage monitors . . . . . but with Lithium you need the current-shunt style battery monitor (due to the voltage staying steady for 90% of the capacity) so again i would still keep my BMV712 battery monitor.

Ill do a few new diagrams/schematics showing a simplified Renogy DC-DC setup soon.
 
Rapt0rUK... I've been trying to get my head around all this for six months and I still feel like I'm a novice and things are changing all the time... for the better, but have you considered saving money and not getting a solar power or electric hook-up as a 100ah lithium battery can be charged fully with just a 2-hour drive on a 50A dc dc charger. You could even get a bigger battery with the money saved!

Also less items of of Kit equals less things to go wrong and less things to install and more room to fit them. No need for a 20 metre electric hook-up cable and how much solar can you get in this weather/ time of year?!

A totally valid point regarding regarding Solar during winter months,

Though i still think EHU + Charger is a worthy investment if you plan to camp over the colder months . . . . . if you plan on running electric heaters/kettles etc then you would need a massive inverter, which would still drain a Lithium very quickly. So running your kit off the EHU is an easy-fix, adding a 240v charger into the mix can keep your batteries topped up for extended camping stays without having to run the engine for a couple of hours each day. (which will just cost diesel and wear-n-tear)

It all depends on your use-case, . . . . . . .

extended camp outs during cold weather then add EHU + 240v charger + Leisure battery. . . . .

extended camp outs during summer weather then add MPPT Solar (fixed or mobile) + Leisure battery. . . . . .

occasional camp outs, add DC-DC + Leisure battery . . . . .

Or go for the Full-Monty and cover all eventualities . . . . DC-DC + EHU + Solar + Leisure battery.
 
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