Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Farnorthsurfer]

It’s a feature of the Renogy. I think if I isolate the solar from a switch up front the unit will send up to 50a to the Lithium.
If the solar is delivering power it will hold it back to 25a
The PV will be fused at the back near where the cable comes through the roof. Standard MC4 inline.

 

[Dellmassive]

It’s a feature of the Renogy. I think if I isolate the solar from a switch up front the unit will send up to 50a to the Lithium.
If the solar is delivering power it will hold it back to 25a
The PV will be fused at the back near where the cable comes through the roof. Standard MC4 inline.

That's correct.


I've used a 2pole PV breaker like this one in the shed system.

https://amzn.to/2ua6uoU



Because I'm always swapping testing stuff and all MPPT controllers state the PV must be shut off first.....

For the van setup, any isolator switch will work, provided its within the current and volts rating of your panel...... and with the renogy, ctek and redarc units you only need to switch the PV positive as the Neg is 24/7 chassis ground. So a single pole switch will do.

I went for one like this.....

https://amzn.to/2ucHux0


.

Or you could just unplug the MC4 connector.

.

 

[Dellmassive]

Lion Energy 1200 UT Tear Down: High Amp Stress Test and Low Temp Cut-off

** Lion Energy - Go Anywhere with Portable Power **

.

WOW !!!!

these guys are doubling up on what Virctron are saying about these being a drop-in-replacement for your starter battery !!!

Lithium will kill your alternator !!!!


so it looks like that if you want a LIFPO4 as a starter replacement, you need to put a DC-DC between that alternator and battery . . . . but run the starter direct. . . . so whos gona try it first?



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Lion Safari UT 1200

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[Farnorthsurfer]

That's correct.


I've used a 2pole PV breaker like this one in the shed system.

https://amzn.to/2ua6uoU

View attachment 58524

Because I'm always swapping testing stuff and all MPPT controllers state the PV must be shut off first.....

For the van setup, any isolator switch will work, provided its within the current and volts rating of your panel...... and with the renogy, ctek and redarc units you only need to switch the PV positive as the Neg is 24/7 chassis ground. So a single pole switch will do.

I went for one like this.....

https://amzn.to/2ucHux0

View attachment 58525
.

Or you could just unplug the MC4 connector.

.

Thanks @Dellmassive good to know I can use a single pole. It’s my first foray into PV and I was going belt and braces.
That switch looks handy enough to put near the leisure battery/Renogy although I may also look at a decent relay so that I can put a small switch somewhere handy. Would be useful to be able to switch the panel off from the drivers seat as it will be one of those things I shall always forget to do before setting off.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shiwaki-He...cle=21-320&replacementKeywords=12v+50a&sr=8-7

 

[Dellmassive]

Expert power 100ah lithium.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

@Dellmassive

So... been up to my eyes in this lithium and wiring stuff and think i've finally come out the other side!

I took your original Lithium diagram as a base and then swapped in the Renogy unit and a few other bits that you've mentioned across the other posts. Think I finally have something on paper I can make sense of... can you do me a favour and cast your eye over this and let me know if there's any glaringly obvious mistakes!?

*EDIT*
One question I had was around the EHU charger, I notice you guys generally have lower rated chargers (7A,12A etc) would I be right in assuming that as the LIFOs battery can take charge between 15-20A you could put a bigger Victron unit in 12v-20A and charge it much quicker off the mains when on EHU?

Thanks buddy!

Wiring-Diagram

• Rapt0rUK
• 23 Jan 2020
• 1
• wiring diagram

Draft wiring diagram for Lithium System

 

[Dellmassive]

looks ok to me,

just remember that LifOS rate their battery's funny . . . . its real capacity is 68ah . . . . but they market it as 120ah (SLA equivalent) due to the 50% DOD.

so dont compare it to a 100ah Lithium, . . . just take it for what it is . . . . 68ah (there is now a new V2 version, with an improved BMS)

LiFOS 68 V2 Lithium Leisure Battery Advanced Lightweight 68Ah LB0068

were you keeping the BMV712 battery monitor? . . . . . if not then the blue wire will go direct to Renogy (as it has LTD built in)

 

[Dellmassive]

*EDIT*
One question I had was around the EHU charger, I notice you guys generally have lower rated chargers (7A,12A etc) would I be right in assuming that as the LIFOs battery can take charge between 15-20A you could put a bigger Victron unit in 12v-20A and charge it much quicker off the mains when on EHU?

Correct . . . . yes.

Lifos 68 v2 (recomended charge 10-30A) - LiFOS 68 V2 Lithium Leisure Battery Advanced Lightweight 68Ah LB0068

Lifos 105 (recomended charge 20-50A) - LiFOS 105 Lithium Leisure Battery Advanced Lightweight 105Ah LB0105

so you can go upto 30A for the 68 and 50A for the 105 - the higher the Amps the faster the charge., . . . 20A is a good all rounder


*************************************************************************

i had lower amp chargers (5A - 15A) about for the SLA & AGM`s i had over the years. . . . .

But with the Lithium's, and having two of them I've added a 30A Victron 12/30/1 to my collection.

Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12/30(1) 230V - Blue Smart IP22 Charger - Victron Energy

https://amzn.to/30PL0tq





*******************************************

you can see that charger and the Lifepo4 in action here > Lithium Lifepo4 12v Batteries - - - Time For An Upgrade ? - - -

*******************************************

 

[Dellmassive]

Dont know how i missed this news . . . . . . . . but,

LifOS release a 105ah Lithium . . . . finally !! ( @ROMANY TAMPIN - possible upgrade?)

still no LTD, but hey its 105Ah . . . now inline with most of the other guys.

and they have changed the sales pitch to clearly state the Ah capacity as it is . . . and then mention the equivalent SLA capacity - well done guys. =]

cap -105ah
life - 5000 cycles @ 50%dod
dim - 328 x 177 x 233mm
max discharge - 100/120/150A (-20-60degC)
charge - 20-50A @ (14.4 - 14.6v) (0-50degC)
LTD - NO (dont charge below 0degC)
LBD - NO (recommended, add ur own @ 11.2v)



Lifos Advanced Lithium Power




Lifos 105Ah/12v Smart Lithium (LiFePO4) Battery (LB0105)
As the flagship in the Lifos range, the Lifos 105 is the only choice where maximum power, minimal weight and longest cycle life are critical. Whether used to power electric marine motors or in large RVs, off grid properties, for on location audio visual equipment power, powering emergency “blue light” equipment or in commercial applications such as road signage, the Lifos 105 provides quick charging reliable power in all circumstances.

The Lifos 105 provides an amazing 2750 charge / discharge cycles with a 95% depth of discharge giving a usable battery capacity of 99.75Ah. To replace this a 200Ah lead acid battery would be needed but instead of weighing in at nearly 60kgs, the Lifos 105 is a featherweight 11.9kgs.
Lifos 105 can be connected with four batteries in series or parallel if a power bank is needed and each battery's internal BMS ensures all the lithium cells are perfectly balanced to give outstanding and reliable performance.

Fitted with a Bluetooth app, you can keep abreast of the vital information at all times when connected to an Android or Apple smart device. Information such as current, voltage, power (w) and state of charge can be interrogated at any time and the smart operating system even send you a warning well before the battery gets to a low state of discharge giving plenty of time to get it recharged.

Lifos 105 comes with a five year warranty.


datasheet - https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/LiFOS 105 Data Sheet.PDF

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Dont know how i missed this news . . . . . . . . but,

LifOS release a 105ah Lithium . . . . finally !! ( @ROMANY TAMPIN - possible upgrade?)

still no LTD, but hey its 105Ah . . . now inline with most of the other guys.

and they have changed the sales pitch to clearly state the Ah capacity as it is . . . and then mention the equivalent SLA capacity - well done guys. =]

cap -105ah
life - 5000 cycles @ 50%dod
dim - 328 x 177 x 233mm
max discharge - 100/120/150A (-20-60degC)
charge - 20-50A @ (14.4 - 14.6v) (0-50degC)
LTD - NO (dont charge below 0degC)
LBD - NO (recommended, add ur own @ 11.2v)



Lifos Advanced Lithium Power

View attachment 59011


Lifos 105Ah/12v Smart Lithium (LiFePO4) Battery (LB0105)
As the flagship in the Lifos range, the Lifos 105 is the only choice where maximum power, minimal weight and longest cycle life are critical. Whether used to power electric marine motors or in large RVs, off grid properties, for on location audio visual equipment power, powering emergency “blue light” equipment or in commercial applications such as road signage, the Lifos 105 provides quick charging reliable power in all circumstances.

The Lifos 105 provides an amazing 2750 charge / discharge cycles with a 95% depth of discharge giving a usable battery capacity of 99.75Ah. To replace this a 200Ah lead acid battery would be needed but instead of weighing in at nearly 60kgs, the Lifos 105 is a featherweight 11.9kgs.
Lifos 105 can be connected with four batteries in series or parallel if a power bank is needed and each battery's internal BMS ensures all the lithium cells are perfectly balanced to give outstanding and reliable performance.

Fitted with a Bluetooth app, you can keep abreast of the vital information at all times when connected to an Android or Apple smart device. Information such as current, voltage, power (w) and state of charge can be interrogated at any time and the smart operating system even send you a warning well before the battery gets to a low state of discharge giving plenty of time to get it recharged.

Lifos 105 comes with a five year warranty.


datasheet - https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/LiFOS 105 Data Sheet.PDF


View attachment 59010

You had me completely confused there for a minute... I was looking at the 68ah and the 105ah and thinking, does that mean the 68ah is really only 34ah!?

 

[Rapt0rUK]

were you keeping the BMV712 battery monitor? . . . . . if not then the blue wire will go direct to Renogy (as it has LTD built in)

So the wiring on the BMV is one thing I'm still not 100% clear on yet... Wasn't sure why it was going to both the Renogy box and the alternator... The intention is to use that to see where the leisure battery is up to but guess if I went with the Lifos I could just use their Bluetooth app?

 

[Dellmassive]

You had me completely confused there for a minute... I was looking at the 68ah and the 105ah and thinking, does that mean the 68ah is really only 34ah!?

nope, they have sorted it out now, the 68ah and 105ah are just that.


68ah - equivalent to 120Ah SLA

 

[Dellmassive]

So the wiring on the BMV is one thing I'm still not 100% clear on yet... Wasn't sure why it was going to both the Renogy box and the alternator... The intention is to use that to see where the leisure battery is up to but guess if I went with the Lifos I could just use their Bluetooth app?

yes correct . . . . in the original diagram the BMV712 was used to "shut down" the dc-dc charger for LTD by disconnecting the blue wire when below 2degC . . . as well as battery monitoring.


you could omit the BMV712 for now and just use the LifOS APP for reading your battery health and SOC . . app screenshot below.

as for LTD you can monitor that yourself as the battery has a temp readout . . . . (just dont charge below 0degC is the recommendation)

in that configuration the ignition feed would run direct to the Renogy input.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

LTD you can monitor that yourself as the battery has a temp readout . . . . (just dont charge below 0degC is the recommendation)

in that configuration the ignition feed would run direct to the Renogy input.


View attachment 59013

Ok got it, the Renogy box has LTD though right, so wouldn't that cut off any charge to the battery if the temp got too low?

Big thanks for all this help by the way, it's been invaluable and very much appreciated!

 

[Dellmassive]

Ok got it, the Renogy box has LTD though right, so wouldn't that cut off any charge to the battery if the temp got too low?

Big thanks for all this help by the way, it's been invaluable and very much appreciated!

yes, sorry. . . .

brains fried . . . long day and its getting late. . . . . #squareEyes

 

[Rapt0rUK]

yes, sorry. . . .

brains fried . . . long day and its getting late. . . . . #squareEyes

Ha! No worries thanks again fella!

 

[Salty Spuds]

Correct . . . . yes.

Lifos 68 v2 (recomended charge 10-30A) - LiFOS 68 V2 Lithium Leisure Battery Advanced Lightweight 68Ah LB0068

Lifos 105 (recomended charge 20-50A) - LiFOS 105 Lithium Leisure Battery Advanced Lightweight 105Ah LB0105

so you can go upto 30A for the 68 and 50A for the 105 - the higher the Amps the faster the charge., . . . 20A is a good all rounder


*************************************************************************

i had lower amp chargers (5A - 15A) about for the SLA & AGM`s i had over the years. . . . .

But with the Lithium's, and having two of them I've added a 30A Victron 12/30/1 to my collection.

Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12/30(1) 230V - Blue Smart IP22 Charger - Victron Energy

https://amzn.to/30PL0tq

View attachment 59009



*******************************************

you can see that charger and the Lifepo4 in action here > Lithium Lifepo4 12v Batteries - - - Time For An Upgrade ? - - -

*******************************************

I went for the 12/15 ip22 charger as it is the only one in the range that is fan less. You tend to spend more time on EHU, so slower charging isn’t a problem. My 12/15 keeps the battery charged and supplies all my normal background load.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

I went for the 12/15 ip22 charger as it is the only one in the range that is fan less. You tend to spend more time on EHU, so slower charging isn’t a problem. My 12/15 keeps the battery charged and supplies all my normal background load.

Presumably fanless means quieter?

 

[Salty Spuds]

Presumably fanless means quieter?

Exactly, I didn’t want it kicking up in the night. As I said 15A is plenty IMO.

 

[Bobby Turkalino]

A fascinating read and a testament to the knowledge of the contributers even if it's all over my head!