Carista - Transmission mileage much higher than engine mileage - what's going on?

[DaveD]

Thanks for all of your advice and thoughts everyone.

I have actually just realised that today is day 30, if you include the day that I collected the van (Sun 22nd Oct) as day 1.

It now has me thinking that I should put something in writing about rejecting the van before midnight - even just emailing to confirm that I am stating within the first 30 days that I am prepared to reject the van?

If I email them to formally reject the van - what will the next steps be? Ie. Is it automatically moving on to return/refund, or is there time for further investigation/negotiation about how the issues can be resolved?

The way I see it you've got nothing to lose by sending that E Mail immediately.
You can investigate how to progress the matter in the coming days but you've registered your intention within 30 days (If that becomes relevant) and the dealer may offer you a refund in their response, making it straight forward.
If they don't, you could report the matter to trading standards, but I don't think the dealer will want it to go that far, the adverse publicity from an unfavourable outcome would be extremely damaging to them.

Find your local Trading Standards office

Find a Trading Standards office to complain about illegal sales activity or to get business advice about trading legally

www.gov.uk

 

[peteaufc]

Thanks again to all for the advice. I have sent an email indicating my intention to reject the vehicle. I would still like to think that this can be resolved amicably, as I really don't want to think that the dealership had any knowledge of the clocking, but realising that I didn't have anything in writing that it would be fine after 30 days, I guess that is sound advice.

Will see what tomorrow brings...

 

[peteaufc]

I would personally ask compensation. Find a similar Van at the correct mileage and get them to pay the difference back to you.

This would probably be my preferred outcome, though I would have thought that it would now have significantly less value than another van of the same spec at ~64k miles? The mileage adjustment adds question marks over the full service history, resale value and probably even how easy it would be to sell on at a later date as buyers would be put off?

I also wonder whether VW would honour the 12 month warranty (or remaining 11 months) if it is accepted that it has been clocked?

How much impact would/should all of this have on the van?

My final thought is that I imagine it will give the dealership a problem if I return it, as they would not be able to sell it again as an "Approved Used VW Van" with the knowledge of the mileage discrepancy?

 

[DaveD]

Thanks again to all for the advice. I have sent an email indicating my intention to reject the vehicle. I would still like to think that this can be resolved amicably, as I really don't want to think that the dealership had any knowledge of the clocking, but realising that I didn't have anything in writing that it would be fine after 30 days, I guess that is sound advice.

Will see what tomorrow brings...

Just two additional thoughts...
First, the VW Approved Warranty becomes invalid if anybody tampers with the mileage. (I've read the terms and conditions)
Secondly, you as an owner with a fairly basic device found the indications that the mileage was incorrect. The van had a steering wheel that was worn to the point that it needed replacing at 32,000 miles, you could argue that the VW dealer failed to carry out due diligence checks which they could easily have done prior to selling it to you.
I hope the dealer recognises their failings and responds with common sense.

 

[peteaufc]

Just two additional thoughts...
First, the VW Approved Warranty becomes invalid if anybody tampers with the mileage. (I've read the terms and conditions)
Secondly, you as an owner with a fairly basic device found the indications that the mileage was incorrect. The van had a steering wheel that was worn to the point that it needed replacing at 32,000 miles, you could argue that the VW dealer failed to carry out due diligence checks which they could easily have done prior to selling it to you.
I hope the dealer recognises their failings and responds with common sense.

I think this sums up my thoughts on it pretty well. It's pretty hard to believe that I, with no prior knowledge about any of this, was able to identify the discrepancy with a basic OBD device, but that a long standing, approved used VW dealership didn't spot the warning signs and carry out their own checks. Lack of due diligence does seem apparent.

I don't imagine that their defence or current explanation - "Carista and OBDEleven are not reliable and throw up strange data at times" (or words to that effect) - would carry any real credibility? As far as I can see, they are only reading the numbers that are in the system.

If the Approved Used Warranty was also invalidated, which I guess would be no real surprise, then that would further reduce the value of the van to me and make it more of a risk to keep.

 

[Bav]

As others have said - reject it. At best, you'll always be wondering if you've been had; at worst, you will have been had.

 

[DXX]

My final thought is that I imagine it will give the dealership a problem if I return it, as they would not be able to sell it again as an "Approved Used VW Van" with the knowledge of the mileage discrepancy?

Stick the registration on here when you are done with it and give others a chance to avoid it. It won’t disappear into thin air.

 

[peteaufc]

So they're arranging for me to take it to the nearest VW Van Centre (their company) over the next few days.

I've said that I want to be there as it's being checked to make sure they are thorough in searching for the mileage figure in the transmission and that it isn't missed.

Assuming they can see that when they hook it up, is there any other reason (apart from clocking or mileage blocking, or a replaced mechatronic) that could explain it? I'm just trying to pre-empt any other attempts to downplay it.

While I am there, is there anything else that I should be asking their VW master technician to check or confirm regarding this?

 

[Crazymind]

Wait the technician to do his job and wait for the tech answer. Don’t make assumptions.
And next I would stop any further conversation of the matter here in public. Downplay attempts need further legal action. Letter from your lawyer it’s a good start.

 

[peteaufc]

Yup, that's fair enough, thanks.

 

[Perfectos]

The original post and as far as I can see all others posts in the thread to date, have not identified the dealer or the individual or the vehicle in question (yet).
Therefore if further legal action is required this anonymous thread cannot be attributed to any particular case as it’s not been specific to an indoor company or vehicle!

The op is merely seeking advice from experts on the at6 forum as would naturally be expected, to establish the best course of action to prevent loss to themselves.

The advise to curtail the thread is pertinent if the parties are named / the case can be identified Etc.

see post 41 - free legal advise

 

[sparkzer]

@peteaufc out of interest where did you end up with this one?

 

[peteaufc]

After almost 3 months of "discussion" (significant chasing and haranguing on my part) finally agreed to refund from the main dealer. Van was finally collected on Thursday and I move on...

Looking forward to a much better experience with my next T6.

 

[DaveD]

After almost 3 months of "discussion" (significant chasing and haranguing on my part) finally agreed to refund from the main dealer. Van was finally collected on Thursday and I move on...

Looking forward to a much better experience with my next T6.

I'm pleased that you have got a satisfactory outcome.
Please consider a good suggestion that was made earlier in the thread;

Stick the registration on here when you are done with it and give others a chance to avoid it. It won’t disappear into thin air.

If you put the registration on here you don't have to identify the dealer, I see no reason why you shouldn't.

 

[sparkzer]

After almost 3 months of "discussion" (significant chasing and haranguing on my part) finally agreed to refund from the main dealer. Van was finally collected on Thursday and I move on...

Looking forward to a much better experience with my next T6.

Interesting, did that actually acknowledge it had been tampered with or refunded without specifically telling you you was right?

 

[peteaufc]

If you put the registration on here you don't have to identify the dealer, I see no reason why you shouldn't.

I had to sign a legal agreement in the end, which included a confidentiality section and I really don't want to end up with any further issues due to this.

That said, I definitely don't want anyone else ending up with the same saga I've had. I'd strongly recommend anyone buying a used DSG to plug in an OBD scanner and compare the engine/instrument mileage to the transmission mileage figures (it was easiest to find off one of the main options in Live Data on Carista) and check for a significant discrepancy. As detailed earlier in the thread, up to a few thousand km seems to be expected, but mine had a discrepancy of around 40,000km. On top of that, if anyone reads all this and is considering buying a red LWB 68 plate T32 204 DSG and wants to message me with the number plate, I'll happily confirm if it is the same one or not.

Interesting, did that actually acknowledge it had been tampered with or refunded without specifically telling you you was right?

They acknowledged a discrepancy and couldn't explain it (having also apparently showed all my information to VW), however stopped short of acknowledging it had been clocked/tampered with and agreed to rejection/refund under a show of "goodwill".