2018 204tdi Needs a new engine?

[MrDanC]

Hi all - Long time lurker looking for a bit of a sanity check

A bit of background

2018 204 TDI – DSG – 4Motion – CXEB

Owned 4 years since 9000 miles, now on 51000.

Serviced at independent, back to VW for anything above that.



For the last 10,000 miles its been progressively using more oil, at the moment about 0.8L per 500 miles, Performance is fine, no smoke

I read all sorts online about what it could be, with it being so complicated booked it in with VW and waited 10 weeks for an appointment.

They quickly told me I needed the oil consumption test, expecting this id documented all my top-ups and milage etc but to go down VWs procedure we needed to do it again. No problem.

The van is out of warranty but as a known issue they normally offer some sort of goodwill, but was informed as id had the general servicing done at an independent, they were not willing to help unless I could prove what oil had been put in it. The independent sent me screenshots from Haynes pro specifying 505 for fixed length servicing (Which mine is) or 507 for long life. I didn’t know the difference at the time and VW do not agree with the above.

Independent have 505 and 507 but no proof which went in it (Not that it would make any difference anyway!)

Garage only had invoices for the 505 It should always be 507 so no goodwill.

VW are just flat out telling me I need a new engine at a cost of over £10,000 +VAT.

Independent is ferociously defending their work and arguing it can’t possibly need a new engine.

I need my van back, as it stands to buy the same Van now would not be much less than I paid for it so I need to repair it.

Before I go any further is there anything else I should think of or questions I should ask?

Spotted this thread which looks similar in issue.

Why is my 204PS so thirsty?

Is this the same issue as with the CFCA engine?

 

[Dellmassive]

if the engine is not Smokey,

and its running right. . . . what's the issue?

i have a 2018 CXEB with 65k on the clock,

i have no idea what my oil consumption is apart from it needs an 1ltr oil top-up halfway through service intervals ( 18k miles).

assuming 0.5L / 500ml per 9k miles,

500ml/9k miles = 55ml per 1kmiles

so what's the issue, that vw say you need a new engine? - is all this just based on oil consumption figures?

....................


as for the warranty and good will,

we all know VW will reject any claim if the guidelines are not followed,

they state you can use a VAT reg`d indy, but the parts must be OEM spec and the service guidance followed to the letter.

you would need all the paperwork to backup any claim.

if your indy garage hasnt provided you with invoices with the correct oil/parts or correct interval millage or time,

you know VW will refuse any warranty work as its small print is extensive . . . . . .

but there is maybe a way forward?

++++++


have you looked at the ALL-IN warrenty VW offer? - you can buy online, then wait 30days, then book it into another VW garage for a check over?


+

 

[Salty Spuds]

if the engine is not Smokey,

and its running right. . . . what's the issue?

i have a 2018 CXEB with 65k on the clock,

i have no idea what my oil consumption is apart from it needs an oil top-up halfway through service intervals.

so what's the issue, that vw say you need a new engine? - is all this just based on oil consumption figures?

....................


as for the warranty and good will,

we all know VW will reject any claim if the guidelines are not followed,

they state you can use a VAT reg`d indy, but the parts must be OEM spec and the service guidance followed to the letter.

you would need all the paperwork to backup any claim.

if your indy garage hasnt provided you with invoices with the correct oil/parts or correct interval millage or time,

you know VW will refuse any warranty work as its small print is extensive . . . . . .

but there is maybe a way forward?

++++++


have you looked at the ALL-IN warrenty VW offer? - you can buy online, then wait 30days, then book it into another VW garage for a check over?


+

I think the issue is 1.5 litres of oil/1000 miles. Something ain’t right there.
Re. The all in warranty. If the OP has already raised the issue with VW, they might not accept the van on the “all in” or possibly exclude existing issues.

 

[Dellmassive]

so with a 10k service interval,

are we saying the van is using 10.5L of oil? in between each service?

the sump holds 7L ish,

++++++++++++++

the oil is either leaking out the engine,

or being burnt/ingested into the engine,

++++++++++++++

i think VW are probably thinking Boar/piston/bearing wear, hence new engine route.

but it could be a oil to inlet leak? and not necessarily engine wear?

++++++++++++++


even if it is engine wear. . . .

a decent VW/VAG indy should be able to rebuild that engine much cheaper with new rings, gaskets, bearings etc etc


.

 

[MrDanC]

Hi Thanks for the replies .

I put about 1L of oil in with every 2-3 tanks of fuel so I dont think its normal, Its so high I think this is why VW are writing it off.

Forgetting about any warranty / goodwill.

Im tempted to just let them go with it for the sake of two warrantied years of motoring and put the servicing down to experience. But critical thinking I need to understand exactly what is wrong and VW cant confirm anything just "it needs a new engine".

VW and Indy cant see any visible leaks.

But with no dip in performance where is it going? Is the best way to diagnose a bore score inspection and compression test?

 

[Dellmassive]

@DXX is an advocate of oil analysis.... Which will show any metalergy that comes from engine mechanical wear.

A compression test could help understand if you have low compression on the cylinders.

A compression test may show any leaks to the oil circuit or water jacket.

Oil injestion should show as very bad EGR valve and exhaust despot.... And will end up clogging the exhaust system.

....

I'm just thinking now at what point in the induction tract does anything use oil cooling.?

....


Does your fluids all look good?... Water coolant good?

Not leaking external you say... So possible internal leak?

 

[Dellmassive]

If it was me,

I think I'd take an oil sample to be tested.


Then ask the a VW Indy to open up the top half of the engine and check for excessive carbon build up on the exhaust side......


Then Look at a rebuild kit.

Or cut your losses and source a replacement engine from a dismantlers.


Or go for the wallet busting VW option.... Which will come with 2yrs warranty.... (Though not sure I'd be happy spending over £12k on a 2018 for any engine work)

.

 

[Bigsidavies]

Didn’t someone on here recently have this and get his engine rebuilt by a specialist in Halifax or somewhere?

 

[MrDanC]

Thanks guys - only one other clue is this repeating error on the ECU that has got more regular as the problem has got worse - shown below

Understand the comment on spending the cash on a 2018 van, my logic is its a fully loaded one I bought from Leighton, Electric everything the only option it does not have is diff lock and lane assist.

To replace it with a new one equal is going to cost 70k + VAT , 2018 vans equal are 36-40k on autotrader.

I am fortunate that my ltd co owns it so will claim VAT back but its still a huge amount of money. but allot less than selling it and getting a new one



23871 - EGR System
P0401 00 [236] - Insufficient Flow
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 82116 km
Date: 2059.01.26
Time: 10:14:53

Engine RPM: 1414.00 /min
Normed load value: 26.3 %
Vehicle speed: 65 km/h
Coolant temperature: 90 °C
Intake air temperature: 19 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.539 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
EGR travel diagnosis: strongly increased NOx emission: 0.00 kg/h
Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value: -83.17 %
EGR travel diagnosis: marginally increased NOx emission: -31.40 kg/h
Mass airflow sensor 1 bank 1 airflow: raw value: 543.3 mg/stroke
Throttl.valve adapt. 1 bank 1: posit feedback - Actual value: 58.84 %
Charge press. ctrl deviation after throttle valve bank 1-Pressure_16_signed_10_mbar: 3.9 mbar
O2 sens. 1 bank 1 upstrm oxi cat: raw value: 5.742 counts

 

[RunDSG]

@MrDanC Nightmare scenario. I'm worried I'm in the same situation.

My 204 Biturbo (CXEB) uses oil, too. At worse, I use 1L per 1000 miles. Sometimes, I seem to use less than half that. I suspect I use less with gentle motorway driving and more with city/hard driving.

I've recently replaced a seized turbo (£3500) and my garage says I need a new DPF (£2200). I'm now going to put some miles on to see how the van is performing.

Tbh, I suspect a new engine is inevitable. Seems like a reconditioned engine could be found for £4,000-5,000.

I haven't even tried to go to VW. The nearest van centre is an hour away, and with 125,000 miles on my van, I didn't expect any help from them.

I think I'd probably do the same and go ahead with the engine replacement. Like you, my van is still worth a lot more than the cost of the engine.

 

[MrDanC]

My 204 Biturbo (CXEB) uses oil, too. At worse, I use 1L per 1000 miles. Sometimes, I seem to use less than half that. I suspect I use less with gentle motorway driving and more with city/hard driving.

This sounds very familiar, If im towing it goes through it ALLOT faster.

 

[DXX]

If an engine has excessive blow by gases as is likely with a biturbo which high boost pressures it will increase the crankcase pressure. The turbocharger oil drains will then have a greater back pressure when returning the oil to the crankcase.
This could cause the oil to flow into the induction / exhaust.
it could also cause turbocharger failure due to overheating due to insufficient oil flow.

 

[Dellmassive]

Thanks guys - only one other clue is this repeating error on the ECU that has got more regular as the problem has got worse - shown below

Understand the comment on spending the cash on a 2018 van, my logic is its a fully loaded one I bought from Leighton, Electric everything the only option it does not have is diff lock and lane assist.

To replace it with a new one equal is going to cost 70k + VAT , 2018 vans equal are 36-40k on autotrader.

I am fortunate that my ltd co owns it so will claim VAT back but its still a huge amount of money. but allot less than selling it and getting a new one



23871 - EGR System
P0401 00 [236] - Insufficient Flow
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 82116 km
Date: 2059.01.26
Time: 10:14:53

Engine RPM: 1414.00 /min
Normed load value: 26.3 %
Vehicle speed: 65 km/h
Coolant temperature: 90 °C
Intake air temperature: 19 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.539 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
EGR travel diagnosis: strongly increased NOx emission: 0.00 kg/h
Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value: -83.17 %
EGR travel diagnosis: marginally increased NOx emission: -31.40 kg/h
Mass airflow sensor 1 bank 1 airflow: raw value: 543.3 mg/stroke
Throttl.valve adapt. 1 bank 1: posit feedback - Actual value: 58.84 %
Charge press. ctrl deviation after throttle valve bank 1-Pressure_16_signed_10_mbar: 3.9 mbar
O2 sens. 1 bank 1 upstrm oxi cat: raw value: 5.742 counts

Po401 relates to a clogged EGR. (Had mine flushed and in the end replaced recently)

Possibly from excessive soot and gunk from burning engine oil.

And as in @RunDSG could possibly lead to turbo failure If the turbo gets to clogged.... (Though his van was mapped from early on, and we have no way of determining what effect that had on his engine)

 

[Perfectos]

IMO The excess oil consumption issue is blocking the EGR system throwing the Low flow fault, which can be an issue even on a healthy engine. (short runs Etc)

things to check

The cause(s) of the excess oil consumption needs to be identified.

piston rings / bore
valve stems/seats
Turbo

paying a dealer to simply replace the engine would be my last option, one I would only consider if I could not get it fixed by any other source. The two year warranty would tie you to VW as in your current situation.

Why does the VW garage condemn the whole Engine & the annual maintenance carried out by the third party?
Other than they can charge you 10k+ and discredit your usual garage which is a Win Win for them !
By this I mean what have they (VW) actually seen / done / diagnosed to condemn the engine Backed by proof ?

have they carried out:
Compression , borescope, Engine management analysis, engine strip down, visual inspection, tolerance testing, good old fashioned expertise based on know faults with a particular engine type etc, etc

Apart from the “green” tech manufacturers have bolted onto these engines to cheat the emissions over the years, the diesel engine remains a robust and simple mechanical device which in turn should be relatively easy to diagnose & fix by recognised fault analysis & remedial measures readily available commercially.
Unfortunately VW do not diagnose and fix issues as it’s not in their interests (they have no interest) they simply replace old with new parts at the customers extreme expense, without ever trying to limit the customers exposure to cost.

If it were me I would Speak to your indie to properly investigate the first three things and discount them in order, the First two are a combined check and a very simple and quick process to undertake & only a few hundred pounds.

Should the first two potential issues be found Not to be the cause of excess oil consumption, you have just potentially saved yourself £10k
particularly as the VW garage will re fit all ancillaries from your old engine to the new engine (I.e. turbo DPF, EGR, etc etc so the bill for a “NEW“ engine will undoubtedly rise as they strip ancillary item from the existing engine for reuse on the new engine, so if the issue if not the Block (compression) fitting a new lump won’t fix this issue !

if it transpired the engine is truly shagged TPS or similar would supply the Indie a full engine at a much lesser cost than VW & Labour rates with the Indi will be cheaper than main stealer !

im not saying your engine isn’t toast, I’m suggesting that you should find out if it is and why, before binning it and paying a severe premium to VW simply because they say it’s Fooked with nothing to show you why.

 

[MrDanC]

Thanks for all the replies. For my own sanity ill get the van back monday and find someone to take the head off and have a proper look.

Someone new I think , not that iv used before.

 

[Dellmassive]

so your looking for a VW VAG indy - Warrington way.


anyone got ant suggestions?

+++++++++++

also see here: Servicing - Northwest area

@Skyliner33 & @CAB have mentioned

Home | VW Audi Service and MOT Manchester

Manchester based independent VW, Audi Group specialist for service, MOT, pre-purchase inspection, exhausts and catalytic converters, clutches

www.vagtechnik.co.uk

 

[Dellmassive]

keep us posted with your journey

 

[Bigsidavies]

@Dellmassive can you find that thread from a few months ago where the guy had his engine rebuilt by a specialist in Halifax. I’ve looked and can’t find it. I’m sure it was a similar scenario from VW

Edit. Found it by just putting Halifax in the search box doh!

@MrDanC

2017 204 oil consumption issues [Resolved]

Hi all Im new to the transporter game, I have had this issue also on my 67 plate sportline I bought back in January. It failed the consumption test last week ( managed 140 miles before the oil light came on ) and have been told it’s a new engine job. I luckily have a couple of weeks warranty...

www.t6forum.com

 

[thebuzz555]

I’m having the same issue with mine although I only bought from VW less than 6 months ago, mines booked in but I can’t get seen to for 4 weeks. I have an awful feeling they’re going to try wiggle out of the used warranty that I got when I bought the van.

 

[dazzler1973]

I had a very similar thing happen which then resulted in engine failure.....although on initial inspection was told it was one of the injectors....52k on the clock egr was disintegrating into the engine which then resulted in bent piston rod etc. long and short was a new engine. I was 1 month out of warranty and VW didn't want to know. However they did offer a new engine at £3500 with warranty. I had no choice but to go with it as my 2019 camper was still being financed......rock and a hard place.........had to go with it. total spend was £8500....replaced all the serviceable parts (water pump etc) at the same time to reduce risk of same happening again.