2017 204ps Bi-Turbo issues - Seized turbo!

[RunDSG]

I guess it's my turn?

Driving up to Caravan and Camping Show, coil light starts flashing, ad blue suddenly low (topped up fully one week prior), no power. Engine temp fine, oil fine, engine sounds fine. Turned around and went home.

Brought to a VAG specialist garage, they say:
- split vacuum hose, repaired
- seized small turbo, needs rebuilding or replacement (apparently VW part is £2,400 - I plan to check TPS myself)
- best to rebuild large turbo at same time
- can't see why turbo failed
- £2,300 - £3,000 for rebuilt turbos, oil/filter change, labour, including VAT.

It is just me, or is this f***ing mental.

Worth knowing.
- Revo remap done by same company 1 year ago.
- Van has always (in my ownership - 2 years) used up to 1L of oil per 1,000 miles.
- I had a odd whine/whirring sound from the turbos before, when manoeuvring the van. Mechanic listened to it... decided it wasn't a concern. Backpressure or something...
- I'm at about 125,000 miles.
- I drive slower than your grandma. I mean it. I set the cruise at 55 or 60 and chill.

I've read as much I can from similar discussions here - vans with similar symptoms and the solutions.

This post about hot oil leaking through with the exhaust gasses melting the turbo fin tips is interesting. I wonder if this is the work I need doing.

2017 204 oil consumption issues [Resolved]

Hi all Im new to the transporter game, I have had this issue also on my 67 plate sportline I bought back in January. It failed the consumption test last week ( managed 140 miles before the oil light came on ) and have been told it’s a new engine job. I luckily have a couple of weeks warranty...

www.t6forum.com

The money is a wind up... but TBH, I was waiting for my turn, whether it be DPF, EGR, DMF... I'm most concerned about getting my engine sorted so that I can again be fully confident in its reliability. Big plans for Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and beyond this summer... I need to be able to trust.

Do you have any wisdom to share?
- Are these figures about right?
- Should I bring my T6 to a VW van centre? (Not close and possibly not safe to drive there.)
- Why am I using so much oil? How do I fix this?
- Why has my turbo failed?
- Am I better off with a new turbo or a rebuilt one?
- If I source a turbo directly from TPS, will I save money?

Oh, my fault codes according to Carista.

P0299 (Pending) - Turbocharger/Supercharger "A" underboost condition

Vehicle specific fault codes for the engine:
23957
25958
33262
31103

Thanks in advance for wisdom and advice.

 

[True Romance]

Guess obvious question have you rung round for other quotes? These vans are brilliant when they work but when problems arise a real pita. I've only got a minor electrical gremlin I'm trying to sort atm and it's doing my head in so god knows how your feeling. Good luck.

 

[Dellmassive]

Oh jeez..

The 204 uses the bi turbo unit. Which is bought as a combined unit (small/large as one)

But they are separate turbos in there own right in regards to have sperate turbo spindles, so having one seazed is possible.

You can see pics below.
.

Bi Turbo Twin Turbocharger VW - T6 Transporter Multivan Caravelle 2.0 TDI - CR. 199 BHP 204 BHP. CXE CXEB CXEC 18509700010 16359700018 10009980206 1000970020 + Gaskets Brand New - Turbo Diesel London

turbodiesel.cc

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I remember @Tourershine had issues with a cracked exhaust manifold on his 204 DSG.

He bought a second manifold and turbo assembly.

But remember he needed to buy new... And was £1300-£2600?

Its a massive job to replace with a high labour cost.

Let's see if he pops up with a comment.

.....

 

[Dellmassive]

I suppose you will never know if having the engine mapped will have been a contributor or not.

But me personally I stick with the OEM engine map and stay clear of the remapping scene.

I'm assuming the main thing with turbo bearings is regular oil changes.

 

[Dellmassive]

- I drive slower than your grandma. I mean it. I set the cruise at 55 or 60 and chill.

So why was it mapped?

 

[Mick]

I suppose you will never know if having the engine mapped will have been a contributor or not.

But me personally I stick with the OEM engine map and stay clear of the remapping scene.

I'm assuming the main thing with turbo bearings is regular oil changes.

That's the last thing I would be doing. Heard far to many horror stories on mapping and then VW saying bye bye!

But I do have form on this. I had a Ford Escort re mapped many moons ago. The engine explosion on a German autobahn was just epic! OCD now!

 

[RunDSG]

Guess obvious question have you rung round for other quotes? These vans are brilliant when they work but when problems arise a real pita. I've only got a minor electrical gremlin I'm trying to sort atm and it's doing my head in so god knows how your feeling. Good luck.

Yes, good idea. I don't really have a local garage I trust, so I'll have to do some research.

 

[RunDSG]

The 204 uses the bi turbo unit. Which is bought as a combined unit (small/large as one)

Oh, right. Useful to know. That would explain why the garage wants to rebuild the entire unit, rather than just the small turbo.

I'm assuming the main thing with turbo bearings is regular oil changes.

Does the turbo use the engine oil for lubrication? I'm pretty good at regular oil changes with high quality oil. With the oil use in my van, I have to be very diligent with checking oil. (Meanwhile my smug 2005 Golf sits next to the T6 on the drive... having never used a drop of oil...

So why was it mapped?

My van vibrates at a particular RPM at about 45mph. I was sold on the idea that the remap might be better for our climate and driving conditions in the UK, that it might resolve my vibration issue, and I hoped it might improve fuel consumption. It came back mega powerful, though it had enough power to begin with, and the vibration issue was improved but not resolved. MPG is no different. Wouldn't do it again, especially if it could have contributed to this.

 

[RunDSG]

I remember @Tourershine had issues with a cracked exhaust manifold on his 204 DSG.

He bought a second manifold and turbo assembly.

@Tourershine Can I ask where you sourced your replacement turbo? If I recall correctly, you fitted it yourself? How has it turned out?

 

[DXX]

Sounds like a similar if not identical case of

Interesting. IMO turbine damage has been caused by re-generations trying to rectify the clogged DPF plus oil burn, backed up by the soot count in the oil analysis.
It’s fairly normal to have an oily induction system as the PCV feeds back to the induction plus some oil passing on the turbocharger bearings.
As far as the inlet manifold leaking oil into the engine - I have no idea what is meant by this.
From what you’ve written the mechanic has not inspected the pistons and oil control rings.

used up to 1L of oil per 1,000 miles.

IMO that’s excessive whatever figures VW quote as normal.
As mentioned above there will be frequent re-generations required to clean the DPF creating elevated exhaust gas temperature which is passing over carbonised turbine blading.
Before spending out I would advise doing a cylinder compression test.

 

[Dellmassive]

just come across this when looking into another problem . . .





Special features of the turbocharger system with bi-turbo unit: - High-pressure turbocharger with adjustable guide vanes, small turbine and small compressor wheel. This means a fast response is achieved at low engine speeds. - Low-pressure turbocharger with large turbine wheel and large compressor wheel. This achieves a high charge pressure at high engine speeds. As a result, a high engine power is achieved at high engine speed. - Compact design: The high and low-pressure turbochargers are directly mounted on the exhaust manifold. The other power variants of the 2.0 l TDI engine in the T6 use a turbocharger system with an individual VTG turbocharger



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check it out . . .

https://www.t6forum.com/threads/vw-vag-ssp-self-study-programs.11179/

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fyi - 204ps = 150kw

SSP 564 - The T6 2.0L TDi

VW Self Study Programme, Document 564 - The 2.0 litre TDI Engine In The T6 The introduction of modern, particularly efficient Euro-6 engines represents a central feature of the new T6. All units are equipped with Blue Motion Technology as...

www.t6forum.com

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[Dellmassive]

same document. . .


the 110 & 150 engine have ballance shafts . . . to reduce vibration.





..

The cylinder block The cylinder block of the EA288 engine is made from grey cast-iron. This is an alloy of cast iron and lamellar graphite. Both variants are produced with and without balancer shafts. The cylinder block with balancer shafts is fitted in the 2.0 l TDI engine with 150 kW as well as in the 110 kW variant with the engine code CXFA.


..





The crankshaft group Due to the high mechanical load, a forged crankshaft with five-way bearings is used in the 2.0 l TDI engine. Instead of the usual eight counterweights, this crankshaft has four counterweights for balancing the rotating mass forces. This means the load on the crankshaft bearings is reduced. The toothed belt sprocket for driving the oil pump and the ring gear for driving the balancer shafts are shrink-mounted onto the crankshaft. The pistons have no inlet valve chambers. For cooling the piston ring zone, the pistons have a ring-shaped cooling duct. The conrods are configured as cracked trapezoidal conrods.



.

 

[DXX]

Before spending out I would advise doing a cylinder compression test.

Thought I’d better clarify, if the excessive oil consumption is caused by failed oil control (scraper) piston rings it won’t show low pressures on a compression test.
The compression test may reveal worn cylinders and /or piston rings.

 

[Dellmassive]

Thought I’d better clarify, if the excessive oil consumption is caused by failed oil control (scraper) piston rings it won’t show low pressures on a compression test.
The compression test may reveal worn cylinders and /or piston rings.

a compression test can never hurt any engine, at any point.

 

[DXX]

If the turbocharger has failed the sump would need to be dropped to clean the oil pan, pickup strainer and flush through the turbo‘ oil drain line.
This is a good opportunity to turn the engine and inspect the cylinder bores, not as good as stripping the engine but may reveal some damage.

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

I have the same engine but 2016 eu5. Sorry I don’t know any technical details that might help in your case but feel for you. I would be gutted if/when it happens to mine.
The phrase that sticks out to me in your OP is ‘drive it like a granny’. I firmly believe in regular oil changes and also using the engine in its full range routinely.
This doesn’t mean. Thrashing it!!
When the engine is fully warm accelerating gently to the red line occasionally will do it good. Burn off the carbon and soot and properly bed all the seals and engine parts.
Run it slightly higher revs on occasion.
Switch the display to oil temp and make sure it is properly warmed up.
I also never start the van up for very short trips to the shops if I can avoid it. I take a bike instead. Short trips are diesel engine killers. IMHO

 

[DXX]

Switch the display to oil temp and make sure it is properly warmed up.

Very true, over 100 deg C Oil temp’, takes considerably longer to reach that 90 deg C coolant temp’.
If the engine is consuming oil it’s going to cause more re-generations than would be regarded as normal, more fuel dilution and carbon contamination of the oil.
Carbon contamination causing oil control ring failure, more oil consumption, more carbon………..
Regular oil changes and or oil analysis is key IMO, 20000 interval is a no go unless you a trading it in after 3 years.

 

[coopso]

Yes, good idea. I don't really have a local garage I trust, so I'll have to do some research.

I expect it's too far to come, however I have a local independent in Hitchin, North Herts, which I would recommend: Auto Service & Tuning Centre.

 

[Crazymind]

In general, turbo failure between 120/150k miles on a 2 tonne van seems acceptable nowadays … ( old cars did better if looked after…my 87 Saab is on its original Turbo, mineral oil at 280k miles ).
As soon as it’s out you will know why it seized, if it’s bearing failure, oil not lubricating, overheating.

 

[DXX]

Looking as the 204ps diagram if the exhaust flap control system (15,16 &17) failed the small turbo would overspeed.
Would there be any faults logged?