T6.1 And Eibach Springs (beware)

[CRS Performance]

Just to let you know I had the 30mm lowering springs fitted to my 2020 T6.1 California. The rear was too low and the van sloped to the rear. VW would not do anything about it - however I have just received an email from Eibach who have admited they are aware of the problem and have just received TUV approval for fitting the lowering springs to the front BUT leaving the original factory fitted springs on the rear. They say this will result in a neutral rake bias...... VW are refitting the original rear springs back on my California this week......

The Camper /California's always sit low on the rear with the conversion weight , Why VW would sell a spring that allows the rear to sag i cant imagine .

Caution with a lot of product that Doesn't have T U V approval because these parts could have been made for a Private label supplier and the prerogative is on the private label Supplier to T U V approve it and Not the spring supplier.

The comment from previous Eibach employee regarding TU V is spot on and this highlights a few issues we have in UK where T U V isn't a recognised standard . There are lots of product sold in UK that don't have TUV but more importantly wouldn't be able to get approval. So Be careful out there ??!!

The T U V test mainly checks the lowering ability and safety of the vehicle at the height that the manufacturer claims , IE if a vehicle is lowered too much the wheels can fowl the inner wheel arch , this would be a fail "!!! TUV don't check Shocks as this normally doesn't affect the height and therefore cause any touching.

 

[CaliChris]

Just to let you know I had the 30mm lowering springs fitted to my 2020 T6.1 California. The rear was too low and the van sloped to the rear. VW would not do anything about it - however I have just received an email from Eibach who have admited they are aware of the problem and have just received TUV approval for fitting the lowering springs to the front BUT leaving the original factory fitted springs on the rear. They say this will result in a neutral rake bias...... VW are refitting the original rear springs back on my California this week......

Hi @Rowls1958 interested to understand this a bit more, so your stock height T6.1 sagged at the rear with 30mm sportline lowering springs fitted all round, so the answer is to only fit them to the front? So how much higher when on stock springs was the front compared to the rear?

 

[CRS Performance]

Hi @Rowls1958 interested to understand this a bit more, so your stock height T6.1 sagged at the rear with 30mm sportline lowering springs fitted all round, so the answer is to only fit them to the front? So how much higher when on stock springs was the front compared to the rear?

Generally the conversion weight is between 200 and 300 kilos this drops the back by 20 to 30 mm
A standard lowering spring will just lower the whole van and the back will still be too low , This is why we only sell the H&R springs because they have a range of sizes and it allows us to get the 40 mm front and the rear 15 to 20 mm , Rake and look is then spot on >

 

[CaliChris]

Generally the conversion weight is between 200 and 300 kilos this drops the back by 20 to 30 mm
A standard lowering spring will just lower the whole van and the back will still be too low , This is why we only sell the H&R springs because they have a range of sizes and it allows us to get the 40 mm front and the rear 15 to 20 mm , Rake and look is then spot on >

Thanks Steve, what I don’t understand is what has changed with the T6.1, as I had sportline springs fitted to my T6 California Ocean and it certainly wasn’t sagging at the rear. The T6.1 internals (cupboards, bench seat etc) have not changed so weight is the same, why the issue now when fitting sportline springs all round?

 

[CRS Performance]

Thanks Steve, what I don’t understand is what has changed with the T6.1, as I had sportline springs fitted to my T6 California Ocean and it certainly wasn’t sagging at the rear. The T6.1 internals (cupboards, bench seat etc) have not changed so weight is the same, why the issue now when fitting sportline springs all round?

I cant offer a reason other than the Sportline springs maybe in correct , or incorrectly supplied , Do they offer a spring specifically for the Cali ?? if not this is an issue !

A standard Cali does sit lower in the rear , putting a normal lowering kit will ( should ) leave the rear low as well , we do a lot of Calis and we simply spec the spring kit with a stronger rear spring to get then level . I have never used sportline ( we have removed loads of them as they tend to be too low for the heavier vans and they seem to have only one model , but i am not sure !! sorry

 

[clarinetbcn]

For some clarity, California owners tend to look for having the floor of the van level, which also means that the door sills and side body line are level, front to back, and that the wheel arch gap at the front is higher than at the back because the wheel arch itself is higher measuring from the door sills and side body line. This can sometimes give an optical illusion that the van is sagging at the back even though it's actually level. Empty panel vans are higher at the rear, which usually gives an equal wheel arch gap front to rear and door sills and floor sloping down from back to front.

Starting with the 6.1, Californias are now being delivered from the factory raised at the rear, which gives an equal wheel arch gap front to rear. The problem that has come up is that this set up is higher at the rear than before, and owners are now measuring the height at the rear of their vans newly delivered on the standard suspension at between 2030cm and 2040cm, which takes them above the 2m barriers at places like beach town parking lots and toll booths. This has not been the case with T5/T5.1/T6 Californias, which have been delivered at under 2m.

The discussion is going on now at VWCC Forum.

6.1 Cali height, over 2m

A couple of members have just measured their 6.1 Cali Oceans at between 2.03m and 2.04 m at the rear, with a difference front to rear at the door sill and side body line of 40-50 mm. This is higher than previous Calis. Have other 6.1 owners, Ocean or Beach, seen this? This video shows the...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[BognorMotors]

Best to swap the whole suspension for a height adjustable coilover kit. Like we have proved again and again this gives a perfect solution for your saggy rear end!! And as the other thread tile says, we can make it drive like a car. Out the box or with just with lowering springs they drive very back end end heavy, steering is too light and not a plesent experience at all with too much roll.

A complete kit will always perform better than the standard shocks and lowered springs, which will only give a equal lowering over the whole suspension.

STX by KW will transform your California and get it to drive how you didn’t think was possible. This is also the most cost effective kit available but with top ends results. A lot more expensive than springs but worth it.

We ran a fleet of 10 VW California’s for over 10 years, so we have a vast experience with California’s and campervans, how they drive and how to improve their drive.

HTH

 

[Andywasere]

Mine is one of the new "overheight" Calis, I wish I did have a saggy back end.
Its jacked up at the back higher than my Capri was in the 1970s. Ground to wheel arch through the centre of the hub is at 780mmm at the back & 770 at the front. Rough calculation its sitting about 100mm higher than my old T5.1 Cali on its original suspension. Thats with a full water tank & gas bottle in.

I had originally intended just going with the VW -30mm kit, but suspect thats -30mm from normal & my van looks to be normal +say 40mm so the -30 kit could end up as -70mm

Just to clarify the vans a T6.1 California Ocean 199 FWD

 

[CaliChris]

Mine is one of the new "overheight" Calis, I wish I did have a saggy back end.
Its jacked up at the back higher than my Capri was in the 1970s. Ground to wheel arch through the centre of the hub is at 780mmm at the back & 770 at the front. Rough calculation its sitting about 100mm higher than my old T5.1 Cali on its original suspension. Thats with a full water tank & gas bottle in.

Welcome Andyinluton?!
Don’t seem to be any closer to understanding why the T6.1 has gone more swamper from factory.

 

[Andywasere]

Welcome Andyinluton?!
Don’t seem to be any closer to understanding why the T6.1 has gone more swamper from factory.

Yes thats me - have previously only been viewing on here for a few years, but looks like its where the technical knowledge is rather than choosing the colour of the curtains!

I was hoping someone would be able to advise as to what measurements were considered "normal" before any lowering work was carried out.

Also would appreciate advice as to whether, if I'm starting at say normal (for 2019) +40mm and wanted to get to normal -30mm what sort of effect thats going to have on the whole suspension geometry.

I might have to have a day out in Bognor at some point in the future once funds have recovered.

 

[BognorMotors]

Well worth a test drive in one of our vehicles to help you make your mind up and spend your money wisely and not twice

 

[CRS Performance]

Yes thats me - have previously only been viewing on here for a few years, but looks like its where the technical knowledge is rather than choosing the colour of the curtains!

I was hoping someone would be able to advise as to what measurements were considered "normal" before any lowering work was carried out.

Also would appreciate advice as to whether, if I'm starting at say normal (for 2019) +40mm and wanted to get to normal -30mm what sort of effect that's going to have on the whole suspension geometry.

I might have to have a day out in Bognor at some point in the future once funds have recovered.

30 to 40 mm drops wont affect steering geometry at all , The suspension moves further than that when going over bumps /,
Its been proved by thousands of camper conversion owners that the drop in the rear ( normally about 25 to 30 mm ) causes the steering to go light because the rake angle which is 40 mm on a standard Van ( 50 mm on a T 32 ) is 10 to 15 mm after the conversion ,. , Its also a fact that when we put a camper on to the corner weight scales the increase in weight is all on the back axle this explains why the front wheel arch gap stays standard .
If Cali owners want to drive a van with compromised steering feel so that the floor is level when parked up , I guess they can . I have had many conversations with Cali owners who are convinced VW meant it to be like that , Whilst all the after marker suspension Gurus will argue this point it is at the end of the day personal choice .
VW messed up the Rear anti roll bar and it seems the rear springs as well and I think Calis are the worse handling vans made simply because they fit the wrong anti roll bar and rear spring to it .
If VW have now fitted a higher rear spring its a clear indication there is a problem

As Oli mentioned a KW height adjust kit is ideal and if you add a set of H and R Anti Roll Bars in to the mix you'll spend £300.00 less than a B14 Komfort kit and have a much better result all round .

 

[Andywasere]

30 to 40 mm drops wont affect steering geometry at all ,

Can I re-phrase the question then?
Is the geometry set up to suit my van at the height its currently at ie - what was normal last year +40mm

If I wanted to be 30mm lower than last years "normal" it would be a 70mm drop from where it is now.

Could you give me a dimension front & back - floor / hub centre etc to wheel arch or floor to sill etc that you would have considered correct for a factory delivered van & then what those measurements would be for a cali set up to handle properly.

Thanks

 

[CRS Performance]

If your van was - 40 mm ( maybe lowering spring kit fitted already ) I don't think you will like it another 30 mm down , 70 mm lower is too low for a camper .( in my humble opinion )

There are plenty out there that have been lowered 70 plus but many of them were fitted with coil over kits that were not fit for purpose and couldn't be set at a safe height due to poor spring designs. The handling and ride quality is far from optimum .

A Capable Height adjustable kit ( strong enough springs ) set around 55 to 60 mm gives nice results however .

Just a quick note on a comment you made that I missed ,If you have a 40 mm drop already and fit a 30 mm spring the result will be 10 mm lift not 70 mm down ?? hope i am understanding you correctly . There is no such thing as a 70 mm spring because the standard length shocks will never cope with that so a Height adjustable kit is the answer , You can try it a 70 mm and if it isn't to your liking you can lift it to a more sensible 50 mm . we will always ensure that you are happy with the comfort and ride characteristics and have even removed kits that weren't perfect and changed it to another type of kit to get the RESULT needed .

Foot note at 70 mm we would recommend having wheel alignment checked as 70 mm is a considerable drop .

 

[Andywasere]

If your van was - 40 mm ( maybe lowering spring kit fitted already ) I don't think you will like it another 30 mm down , 70 mm lower is too low for a camper .( in my humble opinion )

There are plenty out there that have been lowered 70 plus but many of them were fitted with coil over kits that were not fit for purpose and couldn't be set at a safe height due to poor spring designs. The handling and ride quality is far from optimum .

A Capable Height adjustable kit ( strong enough springs ) set around 55 to 60 mm gives nice results however .

Just a quick note on a comment you made that I missed ,If you have a 40 mm drop already and fit a 30 mm spring the result will be 10 mm lift not 70 mm down ?? hope i am understanding you correctly . There is no such thing as a 70 mm spring because the standard length shocks will never cope with that so a Height adjustable kit is the answer , You can try it a 70 mm and if it isn't to your liking you can lift it to a more sensible 50 mm . we will always ensure that you are happy with the comfort and ride characteristics and have even removed kits that weren't perfect and changed it to another type of kit to get the RESULT needed .

Foot note at 70 mm we would recommend having wheel alignment checked as 70 mm is a considerable drop .

No you've got it round the wrong way. I don't currently have a 40mm drop, My new van as delivered from the factory is at PLUS at least 40mm at the back compared to my old one. This means the van is way over 2m high.

A set of minus 30mm springs are presumably 30mm shorter than whatever was a standard length spring whenever the -30 springs were first made? if the "normal" spring is now 40mm longer, and the -30mm springs havn't changed the difference between todays springs and a -30mm spring would be 70mm.

In your reply you said 55-60mm gives a nice result. on standard 255/45 tyres on a 18" wheel - ie normal diameter what height would the rear arch be at in your set up? if you give me that figure I can work out how much of a drop that is from where my suspension currently sits.

 

[CaliChris]

For reference, if it helps at all, if not sorry!
my T6 Ocean with VW Sportline 30mm springs fitted measured as follows:

Front wheel centre to arch 40.5
Front sill by jacking point to floor 23
Rear sil jacking point to floor 27
Rear wheel centre to arch 41

18” alloys with 255/45 tyres

However it’s now on the H&R coilover kit fitted by Steve and if my notes are correct now measures 38, 21, 24, 38

 

[Andywasere]

For reference, if it helps at all, if not sorry!
my T6 Ocean with VW Sportline 30mm springs fitted measured as follows:

Front wheel centre to arch 40.5
Front sill by jacking point to floor 23
Rear sil jacking point to floor 27
Rear wheel centre to arch 41

18” alloys with 255/45 tyres

However it’s now on the H&R coilover kit fitted by Steve and if my notes are correct now measures 38, 21, 24, 38

Thanks - I make mine front wheel centre to arch 435mm and rear 445

 

[CaliChris]

Thanks - I make mine front wheel centre to arch 435mm and rear 445

Doesn't sound massively high based on those measurements, add 30mm on to my original measurements and it's a 10mm difference to what you have.

 

[spannerboy 1]

Hi I’ve brought these springs to fit on my 2018 t6. I’ve been told by Transporter HQ that these are a straight swap to my t6 with original springs. I was wondering do I need to do anything with tracking or anything else. Cheers if some one could help

 

[Chilli Jam Vans]

Hi I’ve brought these springs to fit on my 2018 t6. I’ve been told by Transporter HQ that these are a straight swap to my t6 with original springs. I was wondering do I need to do anything with tracking or anything else. Cheers if some one could help

Hi,

The Eibach springs are a straight swap. Depending on condition of your current standard suspension you may require some other bits. The usual ones to look at are top mounts, drop link arms but defiantly rear lower spring cups as these need to be replaced every time you fit new springs. 4 wheel alignment is advised. Give it a couple weeks to settle, re-adjust the rears if required then get that squared away and you'll be all good.