Starter battery dead

[osman]

Spoiler: Original message

• Ok I’m going to start this with a question I asked the guy who installed my system but did not to reply when I asked the question ( I’m sure he’s busy so it’s not a criticism)so here goes .
  
  A quick question regarding my leisure battery c-tek d250se charging system installed by yourself … am I correct in assuming this system will also take care of charging my starter battery when I’m on 240 hook up ?
  
  now back to my most recent issue . I hooked up to 240 to give me leisure battery a well needed boost . Made sure it finished and after a few hours disconnected . Another couple of hours later I went to start the van and the starter motor was dead . Called the AA and they confirmed it was not taking a charge any longer .and charged my £215 for a new battery . I had little choice as it was not holding a charge and would have simply not started at the end of my next journey .
  so i have a few questions the first one still unanswered above
  secondly is this purely a coincidence eg the starter battery was on its last legs and just died during this last charging process ,or has my charging system actually drained my starter battery ?
  thirdly ,I’ve got extended warranty from vw ( they call it “all in “) for two years . It passed its “ health check “ so I guess they saw no issues with the battery . So should vw honour this with a new battery ? Eg at least cover the costs they would have charged if they had fitted a new battery for me under warranty ?
  phew that’s about it …
  any ideas advice would be appreciated . Cheers

I hooked up to 240 to give my leisure battery a well needed boost . Made sure it finished (eg settled down at 14v and after a few hours disconnected . Another couple of hours later I went to start the van and the starter motor was dead .

Called the AA and they confirmed it was not taking a charge any longer .and they took £215 off me for a new battery . I had little choice as it was not holding a charge and would have simply not started at the end of my next journey .
so i have a couple of questions
is this purely a coincidence eg the starter battery was on its last legs and just died during this last leisure battery charging process ,or is it possible my charging system actually drained my starter battery ?

Second ,I’ve got extended warranty from vw ( they call it “all in “) for two years . It passed its “ health check “ so I guess they saw no issues with the battery . So should vw honour this with a new battery ? Eg at least cover the costs they would have charged if they had fitted a new battery for me under warranty ?

any ideas advice would be appreciated . Cheers

 

[Bigsidavies]

Loads of people on here know more than me, but, ctek won’t even charge your leisure battery when on EHU. That’s taken care of by a 240v charger such as a victron blue smart or similar. This will still not charge your starter battery.
The ctek should not be able to drain your starter battery.
If you have solar and use the ctek as the solar controller then it will also charge your starter battery, but that’s the only situation under which it charges the starter battery.

 

[osman]

Sorry should have mentioned I’ve also got a charger that charges my leisure battery I mentioned the ctek as it’s the only component within the set up I was actually supplied a manual for ( the original question was copied and pasted from a personal message to the installer )the rest of the kit is tucked under the drivers seat and hard to get to .. but it is a full set up that certainly does charge my leisure battery when hooked up to 240 .. hopefully absolute 5 who installed the system can shed further light on what was installed ?

 

[Bigsidavies]

ok. I’m sure @Absolut5 will be along to tell you. But I’m pretty sure the ctek won’t charge the leisure battery, unless solar is connected AND the leisure battery is fully charged.

 

[Salty Spuds]

The Ctek is a hybrid B2B & solar controller. It won’t charge your starter battery. To maintain your starter you need a battery maintainer similar to an Ablemail AMT12 or something like it. You can fit a standalone separate charger for the starter to keep it charged whilst on EHU. Search @Dellmassive ”how to’s” for details.

 

[osman]

Damn I can see I’ve caused a lot of confusion !
Im going to edit my original post to try and clear this up .

 

[Salty Spuds]

I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

Alan Greenspan

There’s an art to describing technical issues on fora. A bullet list in logical order works well. People tend to write as they think.

 

[Dellmassive]

Post a few pics of your kit and setup.



Including the batterys.

Well have a look.

 

[osman]

Post a few pics of your kit and setup.



Including the batterys.

Well have a look.

Ok will do

 

[osman]

Here’s some pics I use he Anderson connector for my solar set up or / and fridge . The CTEK unit is installed ´somewhere ´ to quote the installer , behind the dash . Due to space restrictions . The Leisure battery feeds interior rear lights , power latch motor for sliding door , front and rear black view cameras , and I’ve got a feed to the head unit and can switch between starter or leisure battery to power it … ( that’s only for third party units though , and I’ve reverted back to the original vw head unit due to endless disappointment with kenwood or alpine alternatives)

That’s about it . Hope it’s not too confusing !

 

[Dellmassive]

ok, so its looks like you have:

EHU under bonet feeding the consumer unit under the seat.

that maybe feeding a few sockets and that red battery charger under the seat?

i cant5 see exactly . . . but it looks like a Durite?




i cant see the CTEK DC_DC anywhere . . .

but can see a fuse connection at the battery . . .



and assuming the Victron MPPT is not connected to anything yet?

 

[osman]

ok, so its looks like you have:

EHU under bonet feeding the consumer unit under the seat.

that maybe feeding a few sockets and that red battery charger under the seat?

i cant5 see exactly . . . but it looks like a Durite?

View attachment 153306


i cant see the CTEK DC_DC anywhere . . .

but can see a fuse connection at the battery . . .



and assuming the Victron MPPT is not connected to anything yet?

CTEK is behind dash «‘somewhere «’lol and I use this cable to connect the victron controller

 

[osman]

ok, so its looks like you have:

EHU under bonet feeding the consumer unit under the seat.

that maybe feeding a few sockets and that red battery charger under the seat?

i cant5 see exactly . . . but it looks like a Durite?

View attachment 153306


i cant see the CTEK DC_DC anywhere . . .

but can see a fuse connection at the battery . . .



and assuming the Victron MPPT is not connected to anything yet?

I guess it’s a durite yes I’ve had the seat out before but didn’t really need to know at the time

 

[Dellmassive]

going from above unit we get some more detailed pics..


on EHU the red charger will most likley charger the LB (Leisure battery)

on engine the CTEK charger will most likley charger the LB (Leisure battery)

the only way the starter may be charged is when the engine is running . . . #


or

as @Bigsidavies mentioned, via the CTEK . . . . but there are conditions to be met,

it only works from the solar feed, so you need to have panels connected,

it doesnt work from the engine,

and the LB has to be fully charged before power is sent to the starter battery,

and even then . . . . its only a trick charge.


see here:

https://cdn.tayna.com/datasheets/D250SE-SMARTPASS120S.pdf

and


• Trickle charging of the starter battery from a solar panel The D250SE trickle charges the starter battery from a solar panel at intervals of 3 seconds if the service battery is fully charged.

 

[Dellmassive]

so . .

to stop the starter from going flat . . .


follow CTEK idea of connecting the EHU charger to the starter battery . . .

then letting the CTEK auto VSR kick in and start charging the LB . .


eg:

 

[Dellmassive]

or have a look at other options . . .

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It --

[Guide] Battery Maintainer (for Starter battery) -- How I Done It -- Right so its that time of year again . . . . . . . . Winter & (Lockdown 2020) The van might be layed up not being used, which will lead to a flat battery in around 3 weeks. The cold weather doesn't help the battery's...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

fwiw . . .

the easiest option . .

is just to add a second battery charger. . .

just for the starter, say 5-10A. . .

then when on EHU the starter will always be 100% . . .


the victron blue IP68 charger is popular for this . . .


example. . .

https://amzn.to/3uMeTvk

 

[osman]

ok, so its looks like you have:

EHU under bonet feeding the consumer unit under the seat.

that maybe feeding a few sockets and that red battery charger under the seat?

i cant5 see exactly . . . but it looks like a Durite?

View attachment 153306


i cant see the CTEK DC_DC anywhere . . .

but can see a fuse connection at the battery . . .



and assuming the Victron MPPT is not connected to anything yet?

Sockets wise it’s purely this panel and I have a cable stashed behind the fixed side panel for more 240 v expansion when required

 

[osman]

Thanks for all this help and advice ! It’s fantastic
At the risk of causing further confusion anxiety … one final question … is it possible that due to my previous starter battery being on its last legs .. the last time I charged my leisure battery it actually sucked the remaining juice from the starter battery ??
I can’t help but find it an extreme coincidence that the starter battery died after the last leisure battery charging session using 240v hook up !
Obviously it would not effect a healthy battery but perhaps it actually caused enough drain to kill a sick starter battery .. or is this Impossible ?
Hope that’s clear and not causing further confusion .

 

[Dellmassive]

no . . .

basically whats happened was . .

when you were camping the 240 EHU was keeping your LB fully charged.

BUT . . .

the rest of the van, door locks, interior light , alarm, etc etc etc

was slowly draining your starter battery.

every time you unlocked or opened the door you were draining power from the starter.

++++

we see this situation all the time. . .

++++

even with the biggest leisure battery in the world fitted. . . . the starter will run flat within a couple of days,

unless you look at a way of keeping it charged.

++++