Seeking non-VW advice

[Bav]

Hey guys. I'm considering changing my car... maybe... perhaps - I've not fully made my mind up.

To that end, yesterday I had a test-drive in a used Merc C300h estate (a diesel/self-charging hybrid). The car was in excellent condition, drove great and, considering the performance available, it returned excellent economy figures. I admit to being just a teeny-weeny bit smitten with the car, but I was (am) concerned that it's a diesel and that I'd be using it predominantly for journeys under 20 miles. An occasional blast over to the east coast would be a distinct possibility (especially considering that performance) as is the odd trip over to either Leeds or Manchester (both about 30 miles away), but those types of journeys would be the exception, not the rule.

Is that type of driving likely to be a problem for such a car? Is being a hybrid likely to help or hinder with DPF/regen issues? I have zero experience of Mercs, but I've read they have better designed DPF gubbins than other makes (naming no names!!). I'd really appreciate any guidance and thoughts from those who are mechanically minded and/or that have experience of such cars.

TIA

 

[JOG]

Hi @Bav - is it a private purchase or as a “company car”? If the latter, it makes sense from a tax perspective. If not, it’s a posh diesel estate that has a bit of poke and you like it!!!

 

[Stay Frosty]

Watch Salvage Rebuilds on YouTube as a few weeks back they worked on an Infiniti hybrid and that thing had broken the previous owners wallet to the point he let it go (broken) for peanuts.
From memory the AC compressor motor failed and took various parts with it and working on the electrics was next level voodoo that had to be subbed out.
Given that diesels are being pretty much strangled to death on emissions go petrol or full electric... ideally get an IdBuzz and let me drive it... please.

 

[Bav]

Hi @Bav - is it a private purchase or as a “company car”? If the latter, it makes sense from a tax perspective. If not, it’s a posh diesel estate that has a bit of poke and you like it!!!

Private purchase (retired), but I deffo liked it - aided & abetted by the fact it was an AMG Line with all the toys! The only savings I could envisage would be from the mid 50s mpg... though even that is reliant on me not constantly "appreciating" the performance!

 

[Bav]

Watch Salvage Rebuilds on YouTube as a few weeks back they worked on an Infiniti hybrid and that thing had broken the previous owners wallet to the point he let it go (broken) for peanuts.
From memory the AC compressor motor failed and took various parts with it and working on the electrics was next level voodoo that had to be subbed out.
Given that diesels are being pretty much strangled to death on emissions go petrol or full electric... ideally get an IdBuzz and let me drive it... please.

An ID Buzz would really stretch the budget (and my aversion to EVs!).

 

[Stay Frosty]

At this rate I'll have to start buying tickets from those win a car stands at the airport so literally one chance a year.
Out of interest given that a hybrid is going to incur a Ulez charge why would you risk the added potential cost of maintaining the piggy backed ev and ice engine tech over a full ev as the hybrid won't work if the EV part packs up?

 

[Lubrown]

We all know you secretly want the Renault Twizzy

 

[Bav]

At this rate I'll have to start buying tickets from those win a car stands at the airport so literally one chance a year.
Out of interest given that a hybrid is going to incur a Ulez charge why would you risk the added potential cost of maintaining the piggy backed ev and ice engine tech over a full ev as the hybrid won't work if the EV part packs up?

AFAIK, the car is ULEZ compliant, so no charges would apply.

TBH, any questions regarding the hybrid system (of which I have a few - including whether the vehicle is usable if the battery goes spang) are pretty irrelevant unless/until I can establish that my fears of using a diesel for short journeys are unfounded.

I won't be going full EV any decade soon, as I'm an EV-sceptic. Besides which, I couldn't afford the ludicrous EV prices.

 

[DaveD]

AFAIK, the car is ULEZ compliant, so no charges would apply.

TBH, any questions regarding the hybrid system (of which I have a few - including whether the vehicle is usable if the battery goes spang) are pretty irrelevant unless/until I can establish that my fears of using a diesel for short journeys are unfounded.

I won't be going full EV any decade soon, as I'm an EV-sceptic. Besides which, I couldn't afford the ludicrous EV prices.

My wife has had 3 Volvo Euro 6 XC60 diesels and used them mostly for journeys of less than 10 miles with a longer journey every few weeks.
None of them ever missed a beat or caused us any problems. I don't know much about Mercedes but the point that I'm making is that some manufacturers are able to make diesel engines that can cope with normal use, Mercedes are likely to be one of them.

 

[Crazymind]

all diesel engines used for little mileage will dilute the oil in the sump with diesel. I would change oil every 6 months. However engine not up to temperature will not help with dpf. Starting euro 6 you ll have oil diluted in the sump, clogged dpf, egr failure due to not warming up enough the engine. All the brands affected regardless. For under 20 miles per day I think you would better driving petrol.

 

[Stay Frosty]

I'll change tack a little bit and yes the Twizzy is probably a more realistic target vehicle however regarding short journeys we had a Seat Leon FR 184 diesel with the wife covering 20 miles a day round trip in traffic and before we traded in against our camper that thing was on regen at least twice a week.
It still went like a rocket on the occasional run out but compared to the previous non Adblu 320d BMW it felt like the engine was being killed by the short daily commute.

 

[Bav]

I'll change tack a little bit and yes the Twizzy is probably a more realistic target vehicle however regarding short journeys we had a Seat Leon FR 184 diesel with the wife covering 20 miles a day round trip in traffic and before we traded in against our camper that thing was on regen at least twice a week.
It still went like a rocket on the occasional run out but compared to the previous non Adblu 320d BMW it felt like the engine was being killed by the short daily commute.

Thanks, but no thanks to a Twizzy. Journeys may be short, but the need for room and getting up long, steep hills (plus a modicum of street-cred) are still very much present.

 

[Lotuscamper]

Dependant on types of journeys and driving style ? If you want hybrid then I can recommend the Toyota the inventors of the engine tech ? I have a company Corolla estate not huge but a decent size and in my mid range spec a decent amount of kit and I have 2 litre so 150bhp so nice balance between performance and economy
Mercedes are fab but high running costs I play footy with Leicester Mercedes guys for years and I could probably get sales guys to call you !
Me personally I think the market is competitive and German marques are not the same as before ?

 

[alex_p]

I had a Mercedes C class diesel estate from new in 2016 and loved it - did mainly short journeys (pretty much all under 20 miles) - had it serviced by Mercedes when it requested it (they have a plan like VW you can pay monthly on) and never had any problems, other than that the battery got a bit low now and then.

Got a Land Rover Discovery in 2020 and hated it, but switched to a Transporter this year and love it like the Merc, just in a different way.

 

[T6Paul]

Unfortunately diesels have become over completed to try and reduce the emissions. I personally would not buy another EU6 car with ad-blue. My T6 and my Audi A3 are both 150tdi. But the Audi is the very last to be made before they had ad-blue and has been much more reliable than my T6 with it. However, my Audi is now up for sale as I have a Polestar 2 due to arrive tomorrow, so I will see how that compares to diesel for my 100+ mile daily commute!

I’d go petrol or all electric for less than 20miles per day.

 

[DaveD]

My wife has had 3 Volvo Euro 6 XC60 diesels and used them mostly for journeys of less than 10 miles with a longer journey every few weeks.
None of them ever missed a beat or caused us any problems. I don't know much about Mercedes but the point that I'm making is that some manufacturers are able to make diesel engines that can cope with normal use, Mercedes are likely to be one of them.

all diesel engines used for little mileage will dilute the oil in the sump with diesel. I would change oil every 6 months. However engine not up to temperature will not help with dpf. Starting euro 6 you ll have oil diluted in the sump, clogged dpf, egr failure due to not warming up enough the engine. All the brands affected regardless. For under 20 miles per day I think you would better driving petrol.

I can only go on the experience we have had, although we moved each car on at less than 40K miles so I can't know what problems awaited the new owners.

 

[Lubrown]

all diesel engines used for little mileage will dilute the oil in the sump with diesel. I would change oil every 6 months. However engine not up to temperature will not help with dpf. Starting euro 6 you ll have oil diluted in the sump, clogged dpf, egr failure due to not warming up enough the engine. All the brands affected regardless. For under 20 miles per day I think you would better driving petrol.

My Mk7 golf is the 2.0tdi 150 and for the first five years was mainly only used for long journeys. It got high 50s in mpg and had no problems at all. Since lockdown and a change in work etc it isn’t used every day and generally for smaller around town trips, mainly ferrying kids to and from sports etc. and I have noticed the oil getting diluted with diesel.
If I were changing the car now, based on my current driving style, with the car kept for town and the odd trip but the van getting all the long journeys, I’d get a smallish petrol. The modern ones have plenty of power for my style of driving, even up steep hills.
I also think diesel will be penalised going forward due to the emissions so expect running costs to increase faster than that of petrol powered vehicles.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

@Bav , if the majority of your trips are less that 20 miles, I'd go with a petrol engine rather than diesel, perhaps looking for a hybrid (petrol) power plant. Most Euro6 diesels require a reasonably long period of running when fully up to temperature to regenerate the dpf, burning off the particulates that are captured during sub-optimal running conditions. Repeatedly having failed dpf regens, and all the associated controls required to meet Euro 6, means that these engines are not ideal for short runs.

Petrol engines just need to get up to temperature to activate the catalytic converters as the emissions control. They are also increasingly efficient on fuel. After many years of running Land Rover Discovery models, we swapped to a MINI Clubman S with a 2L petrol of around 180hp which is returning about 43mpg on mixed running. No concerns about adBlue or such.

 

[JOG]

@Bav , if the majority of your trips are less that 20 miles, I'd go with a petrol engine rather than diesel, perhaps looking for a hybrid (petrol) power plant. Most Euro6 diesels require a reasonably long period of running when fully up to temperature to regenerate the dpf, burning off the particulates that are captured during sub-optimal running conditions. Repeatedly having failed dpf regens, and all the associated controls required to meet Euro 6, means that these engines are not ideal for short runs.

Petrol engines just need to get up to temperature to activate the catalytic converters as the emissions control. They are also increasingly efficient on fuel. After many years of running Land Rover Discovery models, we swapped to a MINI Clubman S with a 2L petrol of around 180hp which is returning about 43mpg on mixed running. No concerns about adBlue or such.

After many LR Discoveries, SWMBO has also changed to a Clubman S and she loves it.

 

[Bav]

Thanks for your feedback everyone - it seems that a diesel *can* be okay, but the weight of opinion says, more often than not, it won't be ideal and that a petrol engine is a better bet for my use case. I guess that, in my heart of hearts, I knew that was probably the case, but didn't want to dismiss a vehicle I was smitten with.

Forgot to mention that, prior to the test drive, the first thing I asked the salesman was whether the vehicle was a petrol or a diesel (the windscreen info just said "hybrid"). He was quite dismissive and almost snorted that "all hybrids are petrol mate". It wasn't until I got home and did some research that I discovered he was wrong. If he'd have answered accurately (honestly?) I wouldn't even have bothered with the test drive and I wouldn't have been in a position of having to walk away from the car.

Anyway, I got a follow-up call from the garage this morning and I gave them short shrift.