Poor AT tyre performance in snow

[nosiesta]

Hi there, I hope someone can help. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this sort of stuff, so apologies in advance!

I have a LWB T6, that is sort of a 50% camper, so not daft heavy.

I run General Grabber AT3 tyres in a 235/55 R18 104H XL

In the recent snows, I found them practically useless and was quite surprised.

Some thoughts and questions:

1: they are fairly old (front maybe 4mm left, rear maybe 6mm) - still way more than most normal tyres though. Would swapping front to back help?
2: are they 'too wide' to perform in snow?
3: if too wide, when I need new tyres, what should I look for, and can I put any width on my wheels? Unfortunately I have no idea what they are, other than they are Momo 18" alloys.
4: in the AT world (I like the look and have found them good on mud in wet fields etc), are there better options for snow? eg. those from BF Goodrich etc?

Thanks lots for any help and advice.

 

[Skyliner33]

Hi there, I hope someone can help. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this sort of stuff, so apologies in advance!

I have a LWB T6, that is sort of a 50% camper, so not daft heavy.

I run General Grabber AT3 tyres in a 235/55 R18 104H XL

In the recent snows, I found them practically useless and was quite surprised.

Some thoughts and questions:

1: they are fairly old (front maybe 4mm left, rear maybe 6mm) - still way more than most normal tyres though. Would swapping front to back help?
2: are they 'too wide' to perform in snow?
3: if too wide, when I need new tyres, what should I look for, and can I put any width on my wheels? Unfortunately I have no idea what they are, other than they are Momo 18" alloys.
4: in the AT world (I like the look and have found them good on mud in wet fields etc), are there better options for snow? eg. those from BF Goodrich etc?

Thanks lots for any help and advice.

Look for tyres with the 3PMS marking/rating. There are some AT tyres that have it (I cant remember which). But from memory the GG AT3 don't have it. In the reviews I have watched they performed very badly in the snow.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Hi there, I hope someone can help. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this sort of stuff, so apologies in advance!

I have a LWB T6, that is sort of a 50% camper, so not daft heavy.

I run General Grabber AT3 tyres in a 235/55 R18 104H XL

In the recent snows, I found them practically useless and was quite surprised.

Some thoughts and questions:

1: they are fairly old (front maybe 4mm left, rear maybe 6mm) - still way more than most normal tyres though. Would swapping front to back help?
2: are they 'too wide' to perform in snow?
3: if too wide, when I need new tyres, what should I look for, and can I put any width on my wheels? Unfortunately I have no idea what they are, other than they are Momo 18" alloys.
4: in the AT world (I like the look and have found them good on mud in wet fields etc), are there better options for snow? eg. those from BF Goodrich etc?

Thanks lots for any help and advice.

AT tyres are a misnomer, they aren't "All Terrain". They might look cool, but they are rubbish as general purpose tyres, notably in the wet on tarmac. A decent set of all season 3PMSF tyres will outperform ATs on just about any surface that a van will reasonably encounter.

 

[FerrisBFW]

I put on a set of Falken Wildpeak AT3WA 235/65 R17 H (108) for my trip the alps recently. Not in really deep snow but snow covered roads, inches of slush, and lots of ice on edges of roads they have been amazing. Last week I was in -5 ice covered backroads in Somerset and again amazing. Wet they seem great. I want to keep them on the whole year now.

The ride is much better, since fitting plastic bushes on the front end it made everything harsh, now with these tyres its ace again. I love the look also

 

[nosiesta]

How do I know what tyres will fit my wheels? Is it better to go thinner than 235?

 

[AeonMach]

Hi there, I hope someone can help. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this sort of stuff, so apologies in advance!

I have a LWB T6, that is sort of a 50% camper, so not daft heavy.

I run General Grabber AT3 tyres in a 235/55 R18 104H XL

In the recent snows, I found them practically useless and was quite surprised.

Some thoughts and questions:

1: they are fairly old (front maybe 4mm left, rear maybe 6mm) - still way more than most normal tyres though. Would swapping front to back help?
2: are they 'too wide' to perform in snow?
3: if too wide, when I need new tyres, what should I look for, and can I put any width on my wheels? Unfortunately I have no idea what they are, other than they are Momo 18" alloys.
4: in the AT world (I like the look and have found them good on mud in wet fields etc), are there better options for snow? eg. those from BF Goodrich etc?

Thanks lots for any help and advice.

I basically agree with @Salty Spuds above.

AT tyres are basically - sweeping simplification - good at dealing with muddy, soft stuff.
Now IF the snow is like that (thick, soft or thick slush) then they might deal OK with it. OK but not necessarily great.

But
a/ AT don't have the key to dealing with snow which are 'sipes': the little zigzag grooves. The magic is that these capture snow crystals and it is those (rough) snow crystals which grip the snow underneath on the road!
b/ AT tyres will typically NOT be optimised for cold weather so the compound hardens which is also not great in cold snow or even cold wet...
[Edit - STANDARD AT tyres. But as noted later in thread you can get all-season and 3PMSF AT tyres!]

So, given what you also said about wanting something which works in muddy, wet as well as being better in snow (and maybe still has enough of light swamper look although not full off-road by any means) then maybe have a look at All-Season tyres.
In the UK these are nearly all both M+S (Mud & Snow) and 3PMSF (3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake symbol) rated.
The latter (3PMSF) is the better indication of decent winter snow capability (although NOT being a full winter tyre - which is even more optimised for cold and has further siping for extended snow driving... which we really don't get much of in the UK with exceptions of some of the east Highlands/NE Scotland).

PS and despite the old belief, width doesn't make a huge difference to snow performance (although it might make more a difference to mixed slushy and wet performance... eg aquaplaning?)

PPS so I'd stick with 235/55/R18 and buy All-Season tyres... and there's a decent range in that size!
For example look at the Hankook Kinergy 4S2.

Our offer for 235/55 R18 All-season tyres

Tyres online @ mytyres.co.uk - Buy cheap car tyres online and benefit from a fast delivery to the address of your choice.

www.mytyres.co.uk

 

[nosiesta]

thanks for the replies.... I do spend a lot of time in the north highlands working, so snow performance is important to me.

 

[AeonMach]

thanks for the replies.... I do spend a lot of time in the north highlands working, so snow performance is important to me.

Ah, ok I understand totally. (I'm literally just back down from Newtonmore. Much snow and ice although this mild wet gale has turbo-thawed it!).
So I absolutely back my advice to switch to decent All-Seasons like the Hankooks. Just fitted some to my wife's wee car last week too.

The only other option - which I'm considering myself - is to run proper winter tyres on steel wheels (saves trashing the alloys in winter salt) and swap back in say April (to ATs or even still to All-Season tyres to get the M+S mud capability without needing full AT swamper).

 

[nosiesta]

Ah, ok I understand totally. (I'm literally just back down from Newtonmore. Much snow and ice although this mild wet gale has turbo-thawed it!).
So I absolutely back my advice to switch to decent All-Seasons like the Hankooks. Just fitted some to my wife's wee car last week too.

The only other option - which I'm considering myself - is to run proper winter tyres on steel wheels (saves trashing the alloys in winter salt) and swap back in say April (to ATs or even still to All-Season tyres to get the M+S mud capability without needing full AT swamper).

I've just come back from 10 days working in Torridon and the Cairngorms. The GG were shocking. Almost had to reach for the snow chains, when others were just cruising past. Figured it must be the width and that was an opinion of a friend.

I used to run a second set of steels, but abandoned that for the ATs. Never had an issue with alloys getting trashed, so will stick with 1 set I think.

I live in the Lakes, so good wet weather, mud (grassy fields) and snow is important, but not too much at the expense of fuel costs. I average about 35mpg with the GGs across all types of driving across about 3 years.

Have experience of Nokian and Hanjook winters, and Falkens. All have been good. Maybe I look at the Falkens above.

 

[AeonMach]

...
Have experience of Nokian and Hanjook winters, and Falkens. All have been good. Maybe I look at the Falkens above.

Assuming you meant Falken A/S?
(Rather than winters - running them all year is very sub-optimal since they are not so good - wear - in the summer heat - although I have done it on my old Volvo XC90!! But I live in west Scotland so we don't really get that much summer heat! )
Yes Falken A/S would be good - they seem to do at least a couple of models actually... good brand at reasonable price.

 

[nosiesta]

Assuming you meant Falken A/S?
(Rather than winters - running them all year is very sub-optimal since they are not so good - wear - in the summer heat - although I have done it on my old Volvo XC90!! But I live in west Scotland so we don't really get that much summer heat! )
Yes Falken A/S would be good - they seem to do at least a couple of models actually... good brand at reasonable price.

yes, the one's someone recommended above. I'm off to the west cost on thurs, more rain there than snow usually haha

 

[FerrisBFW]

On std VW GP Steels they say 225, I checked and people think 235 is fine. I am 4motions also. I would say the ride is now sublime, its a total pleasure to drive

 

[AeonMach]

yes, the one's someone recommended above. I'm off to the west cost on thurs, more rain there than snow usually haha

Ah those were Falken Wildpeaks; that's an AT tyre rather than an on-road All-Season (A/S) one.
But - unlike the GG AT tyre - the Wildpeaks are ALSO all-season (compound) and 3PMSF rates so should perform much better as they noted...!!
Might be your sweet spot!

[edit - apparently the GGs ATs - or at least maybe GG AT3s - *are* 3PMSF marked]

 

[Skyliner33]

Assuming you meant Falken A/S?
(Rather than winters - running them all year is very sub-optimal since they are not so good - wear - in the summer heat - although I have done it on my old Volvo XC90!! But I live in west Scotland so we don't really get that much summer heat! )
Yes Falken A/S would be good - they seem to do at least a couple of models actually... good brand at reasonable price.

I am running winter tyres as they were on the wheels when I bought them. 2 years noow and still loads of wear left, I cant seem to get them to wear out so I can put some all seasons on.

Also I just had a check, those Falken tyres seem to have the 3PMSF rating.

 

[nosiesta]

thanks. is an all season specific tyre going to be 'better' all around (especially snow and wet) than an AT that has an all season compound?

 

[Salty Spuds]

thanks. is an all season specific tyre going to be 'better' all around (especially snow and wet) than an AT that has an all season compound?

yes

 

[exrex]

I ran ours on 225/65x17 BFG AT for first couple of years, looked great but after a couple of ‘moments’ in the wet, changed to Michelin Agilis Cross Climate 235/60x17, all season and 3PMS. Still look chunky enough but the difference and improvement in ride, stability and noise is staggering. We’ve had a fair bit of ice and snow the past couple of weeks and tyres are totally confidence inspriring. I’d never go back to all terrain tyres for the road.

 

[nosiesta]

I ran ours on 225/65x17 BFG AT for first couple of years, looked great but after a couple of ‘moments’ in the wet, changed to Michelin Agilis Cross Climate 235/60x17, all season and 3PMS. Still look chunky enough but the difference and improvement in ride, stability and noise is staggering. We’ve had a fair bit of ice and snow the past couple of weeks and tyres are totally confidence inspriring. I’d never go back to all terrain tyres for the road.

they look ideal shame they don't do an 18"

 

[Samro]

A couple of years ago I purchased a set of BFG KO2's in 225/65R17 for a winter wheel set. To me the KO2's seem crap for everything other than mud! They are noisy and I don't like them, but I purchased them after getting stuck in a muddy field....... Admittedly, I've not been stuck in a muddy field since (and there has been a few, so they did what I wanted but are a major compromise on the road!)
I note that these tyres are labelled M+S and 3PMSF, but they are not good for grip on the road in any conditions in my opinion.


In contrast to this I just got a (big fat) set of 255/55R18 Falken Wildpeaks on a set of 18" wheels that I bought and they seem epic!

So far, I have found that I have grip everywhere with the Wildpeaks on the road, although yet to try them in a muddy wet field!
Like the BFG KO2's they are also marked up with both M+S and the 3PMSF markings.

A very noticeable difference is that the Wildpeaks are miles grippier and quieter than the KO2's. I know that my KO2's are narrower than my BFG's, but I am sure that the Wildpeaks are simply a better compound for road use.

It seems to me that the Wildpeaks could be my new perfect winter tyre and although I shall revert to my summer wheels, (with Goodyear Eagle Sport tyres) in the spring, this is only because I don't particularly like the chunky look or drop in fuel economy of the Wildpeaks of the BFG's.

I am not someone who would put winter tyres on my car, largely because I live on the South coast and there is no need, but we use the van in winter for camping which potentially means loose ground. This is why I chose AT tyres over true winter tyres. I am more likely to need traction in a winter field than a snowy road, so I still think AT tyres have a place on a T6.

 

[nosiesta]

thanks. I guess I need an all season tyre with a 3 peak symbol that has a chunky look like the Michelin Agilis Cross Climate, which doesn't come in an 18 sadly