Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Rapt0rUK]

FYI

checkout the Renogy Battery monitor that works with that battery . . . .

Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series

The Renogy Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series is a high precision meter designed for Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery in off-grid energy storage systems.

www.renogy.com

View attachment 69780
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BTW i contacted Renogy about these, not available on the UK site yet...they expect stock available in the UK in August! US site won't ship to the UK either..

I'll sit tight till August!

 

[Rapt0rUK]

1st of all . . . whats those 4x fuses for next to the starter battery for?

2nd`ly . . . ;. you need to move those "white cables" OFF the battery negative post to a proper ground point. (looks like 4x negs for the 4x fuses in point#1)

3rd . . . there doesn't look to be any 100/80A supply cables from the main battery fuse box (under the seat) . . . so you need to run in new cables.

4th . . . what the relay for next to the starter battery and that red/grey thing?


View attachment 71584

Hahhah! All questions and ones I was hoping you'd know the answer to!! Must admit when I popped the bonnet I was surprised to see all that stuff, no idea what any of it is to be honest. There is a tow bar so thought some it could be related to that but really I have no idea.

I'm determined to have a crack at this myself but with zero experience, learning everything from this forum (largely from yourself) I'm wondering whether I just need to pay someone to handle it!

I'll go and do a bit more digging and see what's connected to what and report back!

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Hahhah! All questions and ones I was hoping you'd know the answer to!! Must admit when I popped the bonnet I was surprised to see all that stuff, no idea what any of it is to be honest. There is a tow bar so thought some it could be related to that but really I have no idea.

I'm determined to have a crack at this myself but with zero experience, learning everything from this forum (largely from yourself) I'm wondering whether I just need to pay someone to handle it!

I'll go and do a bit more digging and see what's connected to what and report back!

Ok, so don't know if this information will help at all but here goes...

You're right about the 4 cables white cables, they're connected to the fuses as for what they're for I'm none the wiser...


Theres a heavy guage cable from the red/grey box which is bound together with the relay cable and the cable from the fuses.



Then all 3 lead round the back of the battery and look like they're headed down into the cab somewhere



but one wire branches out (possibly from the relay) and ends up under the wiper blades...






Does that lot shed any light on anything!?

 

[Dellmassive]

Ok, so don't know if this information will help at all but here goes...

You're right about the 4 cables white cables, they're connected to the fuses as for what they're for I'm none the wiser...
View attachment 71614

Theres a heavy guage cable from the red/grey box which is bound together with the relay cable and the cable from the fuses.View attachment 71616

View attachment 71617

Then all 3 lead round the back of the battery and look like they're headed down into the cab somewhere

View attachment 71618

but one wire branches out (possibly from the relay) and ends up under the wiper blades...


View attachment 71620
View attachment 71621


Does that lot shed any light on anything!?

not sure,

maybe someone else knows what it is? ( @Pauly @Loz @Deaky ? )

this looks like its going to be a interesting install.

why dont you start your own build thread over here --> Show Us Your T6

that way we can follow your progress and help out . . . . all on one thread.

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

I can help, Its for the towbar. Apparently.
Guessing the other stuff is for the lights mentioned earlier?

Unidentified Electronic Box

Hi There, reaching out in case anyone seen one before ? We are just currently having our T28 van converted it is 2019 plate and was leased for 6 months only before we bought it. This box is under the engine and the VW dealership are not sure what it is and I cannot take it in yet but it is...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Rapt0rUK]

I can help, Its for the towbar. Apparently.
Guessing the other stuff is for the lights mentioned earlier?

Unidentified Electronic Box

Hi There, reaching out in case anyone seen one before ? We are just currently having our T28 van converted it is 2019 plate and was leased for 6 months only before we bought it. This box is under the engine and the VW dealership are not sure what it is and I cannot take it in yet but it is...

www.t6forum.com

Ah ha thanks!! Did wonder if it was to do with the towbar... not sure why there are 4 fuses though... the lights i mentioned earlier (spotlights in the pop-top) aren't wired up as such the lights are in and the cable is run but just to the drivers seat and not connected to anything yet.

Think i'll just leave the towbar stuff and the fuses alone and try to work around them!

As Dell suggested, going to start a build thread, post what we've done so far and try to document this electrics journey!

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

Ah ha thanks!! Did wonder if it was to do with the towbar... not sure why there are 4 fuses though... the lights i mentioned earlier (spotlights in the pop-top) aren't wired up as such the lights are in and the cable is run but just to the drivers seat and not connected to anything yet.

Think i'll just leave the towbar stuff and the fuses alone and try to work around them!

As Dell suggested, going to start a build thread, post what we've done so far and try to document this electrics journey!

Take note of @Dellmassive about the earths on the battery negative post. They need to be moved to the chassis or the van will be getting the calculations wrong for the battery capacity.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Take note of @Dellmassive about the earths on the battery negative post. They need to be moved to the chassis or the van will be getting the calculations wrong for the battery capacity.

Thanks for the headsup, is there an obvious dedicated grounding point nearby the battery? There's very little excess on those cables so presumably will have to run cable to a common ground point and then connect up to those?

Quick question about the Renogy box you or @Dellmassive might know the answer to, the cable for the IGN live that came in the box is twin core red/black which stumped me... I'm clear where they go on the Renogy box (as per instructions) but everything i've read/watched about how to piggy-back into a fuse box is a single live cable.

(I bought the wiring kit from Martyn (TravelVolts) which came with a single red cable for IGN live, more like what i'd expected)

So question is, where does the black cable go at the fuse box end of the cable supplied by Renogy, is there a common ground point at the fuse box also? I'm looking at Lolz fuse diagram but not seeing anything obvious...

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

Thanks for the headsup, is there an obvious dedicated grounding point nearby the battery? There's very little excess on those cables so presumably will have to run cable to a common ground point and then connect up to those?

Quick question about the Renogy box you or @Dellmassive might know the answer to, the cable for the IGN live that came in the box is twin core red/black which stumped me... I'm clear where they go on the Renogy box (as per instructions) but everything i've read/watched about how to piggy-back into a fuse box is a single live cable.

(I bought the wiring kit from Martyn (TravelVolts) which came with a single red cable for IGN live, more like what i'd expected)

So question is, where does the black cable go at the fuse box end of the cable supplied by Renogy, is there a common ground point at the fuse box also? I'm looking at Lolz fuse diagram but not seeing anything obvious...

Have another look at the Renogy instructions.
For the cables that come in the Renogy box there is a temperature sensor, Battery Voltage (I think this is the one you mean) and a IGN live single core black cable.
If your Leisure Battery is close to the Renogy you don't need the Battery Voltage twin core. IGN live can come from a piggy back on the centre top set of fuses in the fuse panel.
Do a search on the forum if you want bombarded with more info on IGN live.
My leisure battery is under the passenger seat and I didn't connect the battery voltage cables. They are for voltage loss in long cable runs.
This is all from memory and I am not a vehicle electrician but think I have this right.

When you first get it connected you use a small pin on the hidden button to switch to the right battery profile, the LED colour tells you what its on.
After that it just kind of does it's thing. I am waiting for a shunt to record more info on operation. The BM I have only does a nice voltage graph.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Well that's what had me stumped...

So it comes with 3 cables, Battery sensor, IGN Signal Wire (for Smart Alternator) and RS485 comms cable (currently not supported)...



and here's the cables...one in the middle being the IGN wire (twin core)



The instruction do mention using the included wire as a BVS...



But then on the next page also mention using the same wire for the IGN live, connecting +ve to IGN live at the fuse box and -ve to ground/chassis... so that's what lead me to assume there was a common ground at the SC fuse box somewhere?

 

[Dellmassive]

The IGN in ground conection I had originally connected to the body ground next to the charger..

But with subsequent testing I had it disconected and just used the single +12v in.

So officially as per the book it should go to body a 0v ground.


.

 

[Kamhuss]

The testing and BMS monitor is done, the battery looks like a good one.

here is the battery as delivered. . . . it shows 12.8V, but it actually almost flat. (cell @ 3.2v)

View attachment 51195

this is the battery BMS diagnostic lead i made up . . . . .

View attachment 51196


and this is the 150A inline power meter monitoring whats going on . . .

View attachment 51197

i used a Victron 12/15A charger on lithium mode to start charging . . . .

it maxed out the charger @ 15A until it got too hot and shut down to trickle charge . . . . !

so i added a second 15A NoCo G15000 charger, again same thing - maxed out @ 15A

i had the power monitor and the BMS was reporting a full 30A charge current going in . . . . thats all i had to hand.

The Valence U27-12XP will take a charge upto 70A !!! the these Lithium battery's are almost like a dead short on the chargers and will suck in all they can get.

the plan is to fit a Redarc BCDC1250D from @travelvolts when they arrive, which has a 50A charge capacity. (runing on the OEM 80/100A original SCR cables)

This is what we had after a few charging sessions.

View attachment 51198

all green with no faults showing.

SOC is reported @ 100% and didnt drop over night.

I've kept the charger connected and above 98% the charge current starts to reduce . . .15/12/10/8/6/5/4/2/1A . . all the way down to 0.1A

It looks like the internal BMS is now trying to "top balance" the cells around 3.4v-3.6v

one thing to note is that the battery spec calls for 14.6v for the top charge . . . .

but both chargers have 14.2v as there set Lithium program? (the Redarc shows 14.5v)

****************************************************

valence xp U27-12xp


battery specs.


Bulk 14.6v (3.65V PER CELL)

Absob 14.6v (3.65V PER CELL)

Float 13.8v (min 3.45v per cell)


C-rate. c/2 70A

*********************************************

charger specs:

Victron charge:

Li-on mode

Bulk 14.2v/15A

Absorb 14.2v/15A

Float 13.5v

******************

Noco charge

Bulk 14.2v / 15A

Absorb 14.2v / 15A

float

*************************


Redarc dc-dc charge. (bcdc1250d)

Bulk 14.5v / 50A

Absorb 14.5v / 50A

Float 13.6v


***********************
heres some pics showing battery now full at 14.1 and the two chargers i used.




View attachment 51200 View attachment 51201 View attachment 51202

*****

any questions?

*****

So I made up the amp connector to rs485 to usb And while running the software. It’s giving me an error message com port not found. Went in device manager to confirm it was the right com port which in my case was com3. But still giving me the error message. U know what I am doing wrong?

 

[Dellmassive]

So I made up the amp connector to rs485 to usb And while running the software. It’s giving me an error message com port not found. Went in device manager to confirm it was the right com port which in my case was com3. But still giving me the error message. U know what I am doing wrong?

Screen shot?

 

[Hickey]

I think my lead acid batteries are on their way out they're 4 years old and don't last like they used to, seem to charge up quicker too i still get 3 days or so on 2 x 110ah so thinking i might get a 100ah lithium, are prices for a good quality battery falling or are they quite steady? we have our yearly trip coming up soon and wont get chance to sort before so may put it off till next year

 

[Dellmassive]

Prices are falling slowly..

But are still around £600 -£1200 for the 100ah region.

Ebay has a few second hand ones now and again.

Look out for deals and offers, like black Friday etc . . . .

Unbranded batteries are cheaper.... but don't have the history or data to backup the quality and safety features..

I still recomend a branded lifopo4 battery. Ie..

Renogy.
Relion.
Victron.
Lifos.
Battleborn.

Etc etc

 

[Hickey]

Prices are falling slowly..

But are still around £600 -£1200 for the 100ah region.

Ebay has a few second hand ones now and again.

Look out for deals and offers, like black Friday etc . . . .

Unbranded batteries are cheaper.... but don't have the history or data to backup the quality and safety features..

I still recomend a branded lifopo4 battery. Ie..

Renogy.
Relion.
Victron.
Lifos.
Battleborn.

Etc etc

Cheers for that I'll keep an eye out on eBay and this thread and grab 1 if something comes up

 

[Dellmassive]

Someone mentioned Renogy had a summer sale on....

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

The Renogy Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections and provides more flexibility for battery connection thanks to its RJ45 communication ports. If you're searching for a deep cycle battery for caravan, cabin, or marine use, then this lightweight...

uk.renogy.com

.

 

[OllieGBR]

Someone mentioned Renogy had a summer sale on....

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

The Renogy Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections and provides more flexibility for battery connection thanks to its RJ45 communication ports. If you're searching for a deep cycle battery for caravan, cabin, or marine use, then this lightweight...

uk.renogy.com

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View attachment 79289View attachment 79290

I got the same battery for £699 shipped. Awesome battery, and glad I spent the time on the forum investigating the varying options.
If Will gives it the thumbs up then I know my money is well invested;
Will P seal of approval.

 

[Andymc]

Yes across the range!

 

[Dieseldonkey]

Instructions on the Renogy say don't charge below 0°C. Yet battery monitor system says it will prevent charging automatically at 0°C and resets when temp is back up to 5°C. Confused.com. Is it safe to leave it connected to DC DC charger in the van if ambient temp drops below freezing. Does it need a separate form of isolation or will the BMS take care of it for you?