The question is as I have said above , If you like the look of the van Now , Coil overs will be a waste of money . You sim,ply need a sport shock to sort all your issues out
However if the desire is Lower you will need to spend on a coil over .
Suspension Question
- Thread starter welshbaron
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The question is as I have said above , If you like the look of the van Now , Coil overs will be a waste of money . You sim,ply need a sport shock to sort all your issues out
However if the desire is Lower you will need to spend on a coil over .
1 The lower the vehicle the easier the suspension bottoms out which is uncomfortable yes ( doesn't matter what product is fitted ) . BUT important to note better quality kits do cope better .some great replies here and a lot to think about, will try and sum up what I think and hopefully, someone will fill the gaps.
1. B14's and ARB will provide you with better handling but comfort could be reduced depending on how much you lower?
2. KONI and H&R springs will provide better handling than in addition add more comfort than the B14's? But may not handle as well as the B14s?
3. If you have a T32 then ARBs may not be needed and may not provide a lot of difference?
4). Fitting a KONI setup is a lot less expensive than the B14's if you already have H&R springs? But if you needed to buy the springs as well is there still a big saving?
5). Will fitting any of kit push your wheels out of camber a lot? And if so can adjust be made to bring back inline to reduce tyre wear
Hope these questions can be answered and will help other people!
2 KONI is a dual tube technology unlike the Bilstein which is Mono tube . the KONI is more comfortable because of this BUT will handle as well as the Bilstein, The KONI is also adjustable damping so can be tuned for greater handling, fitment of Bigger wheels or just driver feel .
3 The range of transporters T 28 T 30 T 32 have anti roll bars from 22 23 and 25 mm diameter on the front and 22 24 to 28mm on the rear H&R is one size fits all and is 26 mm on the front and 30 mm on the rear . there fore the additional benefit of the ARB is felt more on the smaller vans than the T 32 .
4 KONI shocks alone are £ 600. to £700. these will be supplied adjusted to your Van and requirements for the springs you have . Will springs the price is £850.00 which is still £350.00 cheaper than a coil over kit . If you seek extra low its money well spent , But if you set the van at 40 mm its not such good value
5 Only very excessive drops of more than 80 mm generally cause wheel alignment issues and these problems can be helped using adjustable Camber and castor Bushes . For normal drops 40 to 70 there shouldn't be a problem ,
Thank you to everyone who has responded. Got plenty of time to make my mind up now with lockdown Keep safe everyone!
Keep safe everyone!
I thought you were going to bring your demo vehicle down, as per our previous conversation. As I’ve said we don’t have demand for them, and we would rather try before we buy, which is how we test all our products extensively before we start selling onto our customers.
We offered you a set for free to test on a sale or return basis , Do other suppliers offer this to you ?? there is no pressure of course but because you sell Springs or B 14 you wont know if there is demand in the middle of these two extremes as you haven't supplied parts in to that market ??
You forgot to come to Caffeine and Machine with your demo -Must be your age ;-)
Once we are through this pandemic we will sort something out
Once we are through this pandemic we will sort something out
Yes soar point my buddy and I were planning to come , but we had it marked as Sunday ( 1 day late ) we realised at 1 o clock on Saturday ( too late )
The demo car we spoke about is actually a good friends and its a very heavy van fully converted so a good example ,
I am not into Camping in anything other than my Caravan en suite ha ha but I am on the hunt for a new Tow vehicle ( transporter ) after just selling my very capable Grand Cherokee , The only thing it was better at than towing was its thirst .
I have lots of transporters for sale - perfect demo vehicles for you
Ill go look on your web site ! thank you
#selfisolation
I used to tow my 2 tonne boat to the south of France every year They are fantastic tow vehicles
I used to tow my 2 tonne boat to the south of France every year
They are fantastic tow vehicles
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I'm happy enough with B14s and H&R arbs on my T28 camper but due to an underslung (fat bastid) water tank and choosing 18" wheels I think I'm in more of an happier mid range ride height position for the suspension to be able to work its magic.
I'm surprised there's not more chat of different spring rates for the T6 when pursuing handling improvement. Without wishing to provoke anyone already in this debate, an adjustable Bilstein or MAXX or Koni can all be adjusted to feel almost indistinguishable especially by an average driver in something like a T6. Obviously different on a track car, or sport bike being pushed. You can only tune in/out a difference with separate compression/rebound adjustments like some of the KYBs or Ohlins, and even then, here we're still talking about a high CoG T6.
There's often comments on here about suspension being 'crashy' with low profiles and uprated suspension. I think that has more to do with people having the wrong spring rates rather than shocks.
I bought my used T6 T28 LWB PV already fitted with MAXX adjustable coilovers and dampers. I have fiddled with the dampers and height, but I think overall the spring rates on the front are too soft, and would look to put a set of stiffer front springs in as any nest step.
The LWB and miles off 50/50 weight distribution makes the handling very inconsistent, albeit quite predictable.
I can second the comments made previously about the roll reduction and consequent reduction in understeer from fitting H & Rs. A great improvement to any van I'd suggest.
We're all used to this forum being collaborative and without the bickering and flaming you get on the likes of PH. Just adding my experience and opinion, and await views and observations in support or counter to my view.
There's often comments on here about suspension being 'crashy' with low profiles and uprated suspension. I think that has more to do with people having the wrong spring rates rather than shocks.
I bought my used T6 T28 LWB PV already fitted with MAXX adjustable coilovers and dampers. I have fiddled with the dampers and height, but I think overall the spring rates on the front are too soft, and would look to put a set of stiffer front springs in as any nest step.
The LWB and miles off 50/50 weight distribution makes the handling very inconsistent, albeit quite predictable.
I can second the comments made previously about the roll reduction and consequent reduction in understeer from fitting H & Rs. A great improvement to any van I'd suggest.
We're all used to this forum being collaborative and without the bickering and flaming you get on the likes of PH
. Just adding my experience and opinion, and await views and observations in support or counter to my view.
I'm surprised there's not more chat of different spring rates for the T6 when pursuing handling improvement. Without wishing to provoke anyone already in this debate, an adjustable Bilstein or MAXX or Koni can all be adjusted to feel almost indistinguishable especially by an average driver in something like a T6. Obviously different on a track car, or sport bike being pushed. You can only tune in/out a difference with separate compression/rebound adjustments like some of the KYBs or Ohlins, and even then, here we're still talking about a high CoG T6.
There's often comments on here about suspension being 'crashy' with low profiles and uprated suspension. I think that has more to do with people having the wrong spring rates rather than shocks.
I bought my used T6 T28 LWB PV already fitted with MAXX adjustable coilovers and dampers. I have fiddled with the dampers and height, but I think overall the spring rates on the front are too soft, and would look to put a set of stiffer front springs in as any nest step.
The LWB and miles off 50/50 weight distribution makes the handling very inconsistent, albeit quite predictable.
I can second the comments made previously about the roll reduction and consequent reduction in understeer from fitting H & Rs. A great improvement to any van I'd suggest.
We're all used to this forum being collaborative and without the bickering and flaming you get on the likes of PH
I have indeed been going on about spring rates for a long time , particularly with coil over or sleeve over kits which almost without exception offer 1 spring fits all. The problem is simply that the range of vans, accessories and camper installs offer very different weights . H&R seem to be the only spring manufacturer who offer 4 choices of springs which allows us to fit the correct spring for each van and parts added . These are sport kits with a fixed drop, but the Coilover kits only have one spring rate and users think that if the spring rate isnt strong enough and the car is sagging then a simple adjustment of the spring perch can sort this out. Unfortunately the height adjustable feature which is designed to set the height is used to lift the vehicle by pre tensioning the spring . This isnt what it was designed to do because this limits available travel . Many varied points of view on this with some users happy and some not .
The comment regarding crashy ride being a spring problem isnt correct , The fitting of sport springs which are generally 20 % stiffer needs stiffer shocks to control them. the crashy feel is the standard shocks not being able to slow the wheel movement ( shaft frequency ) fast enough and the crashy feel is the shock bottoming out on to the bump stop.
The springs dont have as much influence on handling and comfort as Shocks do . BUT fitting lowering springs and big wheels are 2 things a standard shock simply cant cope with. result poor ride !! . I can not stress the importance of a performance well designed shock absorber enough. Of course there are lots of players in the market but if you listen to all the comments " i took the springs out and fitted Coil overs and what a difference " it absolutely makes sense because the difference is the SHOCK . sadly most of these owners simply needed a change of shock not a complete new style kit. Adjustable damping force is a very important feature because we can adjust the stiffness settings to cope with bigger ( heavier ) wheels , and tune the handling to suit individual needs , balance comfort against handling .
Up rated A R B do help cornering stability in high C of G vehicles particularly with camper conversions , But again with standard shocks already struggling with a lowered van and big wheels this is just something else standard shocks have to try and control . ( A R B effectively increase spring rates in cornering only , little, to no affect in a straight line )
Getting to your Van and the Maxx kit fitted . This is a budget system and probably the springs have sagged over time and of course as a spring sags ( gets shorter ) it gets softer . no way to fix it . just change them but maybe change them for similar to original because if you go too hard the shock may not cope and this might result in a bouncy feel ( this is what happens when the spring rates are too high . ) Hope that helps .
@CRS Performance Steve, so you mean in your Sport Kits, where you buy the springs and shocks separately (i.e. not your H&R Koni Coilover kit) you get a choice of 4 different spring rates for either a -40mm drop or a -55mm drop, as I think those are the H&R drops offered in spring only?? Cheers
van types
H&R do several different spring kits for T 5 T 6 , 4 x of them are on their worldwide Catalogue , the springs in each kit are different rates for different van models and spec . I normally keep all of them in stock and mix and match them to get the vans to sit nicely . There are tricks with this that can sometimes get more than 40mm drops especially in the heavier vans . Example fitting a low axle load spring in to a hi axle load van will get more than 40 mm more likely 50 to 55 yes !!
The other kit is a 50mm kit that E C P commissioned H&R to make and this kit isn't on the WW catalogue and only available here in UK from ECP . here the result is as it is and cant be changed other than spacers under the rear spring seat to get the rake correct in a heavier Converted van .
I am the importer into South Africa for H&R and KONI hence my passion for these amazing products and my practice of mating the 2 kits together. We have been very successful with these parts and opened up the market from JUST springs or Coil overs to Springs , Sport kit ( shocks and springs ) and then Coil overs . The general desire to improve comfort in vans only equipped with sport springs was to up sell clients to a Coil over . But most of these clients didn't need that they simply needed the KONI sport shock to compliment the lowering springs . All their issues will then be resolved . Hope this makes sense ? cheers
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