Moving to Lithium

[James-78]

Hi,
I've bought a second hand camperking conversion, and I'm not that impressed with the leisure electrics, they just don't seem to last for anytime at all. What's the bear minimum I would need to change to move to a Lithium battery and could you recommend some parts? I'm currently using a 80Ah Lead Acid. There's a CB-516 electronic battery charger, a Solar Technology International PWM solar charger, a CBE Distribution Board, and what looks like a CBE fuse board. There's three ways of charging the battery, from the engine, solar and via a mains 3 prong plug.

Thanks

 

[True Romance]

What are you powering? How long is the battery lasting? Would suggest you figure out your usage and confirm everything is working correctly first before spending on a replacement battery. We can cover a weekend running fridge, lights and charging phones, etc with our lead acid.

 

[Dellmassive]

A 100ah lifepo4 is normally the starter size.

You need to make sure all your charge sources have a lithium profile.

The Renogy 100ah is a popular model. Example - https://amzn.to/458K1pd







More info.....

Dellmassive’s "How I Done It" blogs.

-- Dellmassive`s -- "How I Done It" -- thread -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

.


Post some pics of your setup and we'll have a look.

 

[DXX]

You wouldn’t be the first owner to have had issues with a CamperKing van electrics, as mentioned earlier it’s simpler and cheaper to check cable lengths / gauges, connections, grounding etc before ripping it all out.

 

[James-78]

Ideally I'd like to go away for three or four days, and just not have to worry. We've a standard small fridge, a water pump, some led lighting and I'd like to charge the phones. Problem is, everthing seems very variable, and I'm thinking saving £10 a night on a hook up soon adds up over the years, and there's not many hooks ups on a Scottish beach Complicating the problem is that I think the person who originally bought the van has made some "modifications". There's a second Lead Acid battery, but it only seems to be connected to the solar, when I think the sensible thing would have been to put them in parallel.

Someone from Sheffield (N Grayson) replaced the one battery shortly after we bought it (could have been lack of care over the winter, we bought the van in March), but now having problems with out second battery (I was hoping the solar and occasional journeys would keep it going over winter) and I'm not getting any voltage off the solar PVM either. They also said that it was odd that it was charging from the engine as there didn't seem to be the big 80A cables you need as it's Euro6. I think that's as it has to come directly off the alternator, but didn't fully understand. Unfortunately they said it was going to be about £500 to investigate the problem it would mean ripping out half the kitchen.

I think if I moved to Lithium, I'd lose about 50Kg in weight too. From the van alas!

So it seems I'll need;
* something that charges from the engine,
* something that can handle mains for the hook up.
*something that can handle the Solar e.g. Rover Li 20 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller
* Lithium Battery, I like the Renogy Lithium, thanks!

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know

 

[BlackThunder5.1]

a CBE-522-LT would charge the Lithium battery from mains hook up

 

[Oceanis]

What follows is my opinion.

Firstly, as already mentioned, you need to do a power budget for your van.

Mine looks like this (Standard VW California Ocean)...



So I know I need a solar system that will provide 0,7kWh a day reliably, estimate on yield for a solar system based on your location can be found here ...

MPPT Calculator - Victron Energy

MPPT Calculator - Victron Energy

www.victronenergy.com

... I fitted 310W for Southern Germany but after running it for a year, 200W would probably have been fine as any movement of the vehicle also results in charging, e.g. a day trip or a shopping trip.

PWM is in my opinion sub-optimal and they are increasingly being replaced by MPPT. An MPPT will extract maybe 5% more power which doesn't justify the price difference on a small system, but the PWM also limits what panels you can use and how you can wire them.

I would highly recommend getting an MPPT solar charger over a PWM.

Second point is that obviously lithium has more useable capacity than lead acid, is lighter, but can't be charged directly from an alternator so will need a B2B charger. The other problem with lithium is that you now have a mixed chemistry system as the starter battery will remain lead - so charging both from the same mains charger or the same solar controller is not optimal as you need 2 different charge profiles.

This can be solved by hanging a trickle charger for the starter battery on the lithium side of your system. Set your chargers, (solar, mains hook-up), to lithium profile and connect to the Lithium batteries and the trickle charger will keep the starter battery topped up. The alternator will take care of the starter battery when driving and will not burn out charging the Lithium bank if it is connected through a B2B with a Lithium profile.

This is an example of a system that would fulfil your needs and could be adapted with components of your choice ...

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/VE-direct-drawing-with-Phoenix-charger-12-50-1-inverter-375W-Li-Batt-smallBMS-MPPT-100-30-Orion-Tr-smart.pdf

 

[campkingnewbie]

Hello,
Quick question before I provide a more detailed reply - have you looked behind the board that has electrical units mounted on it?
There might be a Sterling DC-DC battery to battery charger unit mounted there in a void. If you pull the curtain back on the side window and use a very bright torch through the (tinted) window you should see it - it will be approximately in the location of that top CBE unit in your picture.

 

[Bav]

Apologies for jumping on to your thread @James-78, but I have a quick question for @Oceanis if I may...

I have a converter-installed lithium power system in my camper (300W solar, MPPT, mains hook-up, B2B charger, 3kW inverter, ~220Ah LB, etc) and it all works extremely well - with a moderate amount of sun and/or the occasional ride out in the van, initial indications are that we can exist off-grid almost indefinitely (during the summer months at least).

That's great and we're really pleased with it, but what I've noticed is that the SB voltage steadily drops if the van isn't driven for a prolonged period - even if the LB has 100% SOC and the sun is blazing down. I presume, therefore, that my system is lacking the kit needed to trickle-charge the SB from the LB.

Given that I'm a complete novice electrical-wise, would you mind listing the components I would need to add in order achieve LB->SB trickle-charging? Also, if you could point-out where on the above diagram these components are, then I can show my converter the diagram and say "how much to supply and fit these, like this" ).

TIA

 

[Oceanis]

Apologies for jumping on to your thread @James-78, but I have a quick question for @Oceanis if I may...

I have a converter-installed lithium power system in my camper (300W solar, MPPT, mains hook-up, B2B charger, 3kW inverter, ~220Ah LB, etc) and it all works extremely well - with a moderate amount of sun and/or the occasional ride out in the van, initial indications are that we can exist off-grid almost indefinitely (during the summer months at least).

That's great and we're really pleased with it, but what I've noticed is that the SB voltage steadily drops if the van isn't driven for a prolonged period - even if the LB has 100% SOC and the sun is blazing down. I presume, therefore, that my system is lacking the kit needed to trickle-charge the SB from the LB.

Given that I'm a complete novice electrical-wise, would you mind listing the components I would need to add in order achieve LB->SB trickle-charging? Also, if you could point-out where on the above diagram these components are, then I can show my converter the diagram and say "how much to supply and fit these, like this" ).

TIA

I would fit one of these ...


It will charge your lead acid starter battery with 2,5A or 5A from a Lithium leisure bank while keeping the battery banks isolated.

Sorry it is in Germany, but that is where I live and I couldn't find an english description.

The google translated German site ... Batterien optimal laden, schützen und pflegen: BÜTTNER Elektronik - Mobile Technology

 

[Salty Spuds]

I would fit one of these ...

View attachment 203289View attachment 203290
It will charge your lead acid starter battery with 2,5A or 5A from a Lithium leisure bank while keeping the battery banks isolated.

Sorry it is in Germany, but that is where I live and I couldn't find an english description.

The google translated German site ... Batterien optimal laden, schützen und pflegen: BÜTTNER Elektronik - Mobile Technology

Looks a good solution, there’s also the Ablemail AMT-12 to consider. I have one fitted. Does what it says on the tin.

Search results for query: AMT 12

www.t6forum.com

 

[Bav]

I would fit one of these ...

View attachment 203289View attachment 203290
It will charge your lead acid starter battery with 2,5A or 5A from a Lithium leisure bank while keeping the battery banks isolated.

Sorry it is in Germany, but that is where I live and I couldn't find an english description.

The google translated German site ... Batterien optimal laden, schützen und pflegen: BÜTTNER Elektronik - Mobile Technology

Looks a good solution, there’s also the Ablemail AMT-12 to consider. I have one fitted. Does what it says on the tin.

Search results for query: AMT 12

www.t6forum.com

Thanks both - I will have a read-up.

 

[Bav]

I would fit one of these ...

View attachment 203289View attachment 203290
It will charge your lead acid starter battery with 2,5A or 5A from a Lithium leisure bank while keeping the battery banks isolated.

Sorry it is in Germany, but that is where I live and I couldn't find an english description.

The google translated German site ... Batterien optimal laden, schützen und pflegen: BÜTTNER Elektronik - Mobile Technology

Looks a good solution, there’s also the Ablemail AMT-12 to consider. I have one fitted. Does what it says on the tin.

Search results for query: AMT 12

www.t6forum.com

Hey guys, my converter is suggesting to use of one these...

Digital Duo Charge - Balmar

Digital Duo Charge: DDC-12/24Multi Bank Charging The DDC is a Solid-State Battery Combiner Control Voltage and Current between House and Start Batteries Eliminates the Need for an Isolator, Relay or Manually Operated Battery Switch Used in Concert with Max Charge or ARS-5 Regulators Can also be...

balmar.net

What do you think? Will this do the same job? Any pros or cons?

TIA