Low temperature lithium battery

heres the TEMP logging data from the van AUX battery (sensor stuck to side of battery under drivers seat) (London)

just dropped to 0 in the middle of the night , , , , but generally no issues with very cold temps / . . .


1612287413796.png1612287421994.png1612287433109.png



..........



I've moved over to the newer upgraded sensors now . . .





Brifit Wireless Thermometer Hygrometer, Bluetooth 5.0 Room Temperature Monitor, Easily Export Temperature, Temp Sensor with Notification Alert for Home, Greenhouse, Guitar Case, Wine Cellar : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

Brifit Wireless Thermometer Hygrometer, Bluetooth 5.0 Room Temperature Monitor, Easily Export Temperature, Temp Sensor with Notification Alert for Home, Greenhouse, Guitar Case, Wine Cellar : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
amzn.to





1612287624352.png
 
Dellmassive said:
The Renogy MPPT/DC-DC has charge limiting via its temp sensor . . . which is a nice feature . (with Lith prfile and temp sensor fitted, stops charging below 1deC)

www.t6forum.com

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

DC-DC Charger (for Leisure battery) -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...
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View attachment 100803


.....



the Renogy Smart Lifepo4:

View attachment 100805


View attachment 100804


View attachment 100806


...

but says this . . .

View attachment 100808

View attachment 100807D


View attachment 100809


....


so it says dont charge below . . 0degc . . .

but indicates a protection mode below 0degC that re-enables above +5degC



im not sure how the battery will perform without testing . . .

it nice battery with internal BMS etc etc . . . thats why they £800 odd £££s


we need some one to test the feature . . . or email Renogy tech support and clariy exactly what the battery does.?

does it totally disconnect internally ? - or just limit the incoming current, but allow outgoing current (this would be my assumption)

.
Click to expand...

Response from email sent to Renogy....


Thank you for reaching out to us.

A battery management system is an electronic system that manages a rechargeable battery, such as by protecting the battery from operating outside its safe operating area, monitoring its state, calculating secondary data, reporting that data, controlling its environment, authenticating it and/or balancing it.

The function of the battery's BMS is to protect the battery. Continuing to charge the lithium battery below 0 °C will damage the battery, so the BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery below 0 °C to protect the battery. This will not damage the battery, but for extending battery life, we do not recommend that customers keep their batteries below 0 °C for long periods of time.

In addition, if the charger is disconnected from the battery for a long time but still connected to the solar panels, it may cause damage to the charger. It is suggested to disconnect the solar panels and the controller below 0 ℃, and turn off the battery with the switch and store it indoors (above 0 ℃).

Best regards,
Click to expand...
 
Dieseldonkey said:
Thank you for reaching out to us.

A battery management system is an electronic system that manages a rechargeable battery, such as by protecting the battery from operating outside its safe operating area, monitoring its state, calculating secondary data, reporting that data, controlling its environment, authenticating it and/or balancing it.

The function of the battery's BMS is to protect the battery. Continuing to charge the lithium battery below 0 °C will damage the battery, so the BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery below 0 °C to protect the battery. This will not damage the battery, but for extending battery life, we do not recommend that customers keep their batteries below 0 °C for long periods of time.

In addition, if the charger is disconnected from the battery for a long time but still connected to the solar panels, it may cause damage to the charger. It is suggested to disconnect the solar panels and the controller below 0 ℃, and turn off the battery with the switch and store it indoors (above 0 ℃).

Best regards,
Click to expand...
Is this email relating to the Renogy Lithium smart battery? . . . . which model?

they say disconnect the charge source? . . but they don't say if this is internal to the battery? or relying on the DC-DC/MPPT charger low temp disconect (as they mention the solar part of a dc-dc charger?)

are they saying that when you leave the battery connected in the van . . . that the battery internal BMS will block any charge source when the battery temp is below 0degc, but will let power out to run the 12v system?

I think this email reply is relating to a Renogy DC50 DC_DC/mppt charger that is connected to a lithium battery?

its not saying what happens to the Renogy smart lithium battery below 0degc.



edit: I've just sent Renogy email asking for some clarification on this battery. . . .

lets see what they come back with.
 
Last edited:
@Dellmassive ....'so the BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery below 0 °C to protect the battery'.

I'm reading this as the Battery Management System on the battery takes care of preventing charge reaching the cells, rather than the charger.

But more clarification from Renogy would be good.
 
@Dellmassive my original email to Renogy

Dear Sir/Madam

I am about to make a purchase of a Renogy 12v 100ah Lithium Iron phosphate battery.

I note on the online instructions, it states not to be charged when the battery is below 0°C. However, I also see that the Battery Monitoring System has a temperature activated automatic cut out, triggered at 0°C, with a recovery at 5°C. Can I ask is it safe to leave this battery connected to a DC DC in vehicle charger where the temperature may drop below zero. Am I correct to assume that the BMS will prevent charging and possible battery damage until the temperature reaches 5°C again.

Thanks for your assistance.
 
Dieseldonkey said:
@Dellmassive ....'so the BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery below 0 °C to protect the battery'.

I'm reading this as the Battery Management System on the battery takes care of preventing charge reaching the cells, rather than the charger.

But more clarification from Renogy would be good.
Click to expand...
agreed,

i suppose the internal BMS could shunt the outgoing power via a Diode bank, that could block any incoming current flow.

but as you say, we need clarification from Renogy. (if this is an integral feature of the battery BMS)


edit:


I've send a very similar email to them too. . . . .


lets see what they come back with.
 
I like the heat pad solution to getting round the 0°C issue, especially as the pad is in direct contact with the battery.

However, will put this out there as a possible option to get round the temperature charging problem. Very much a solution if your thinking lithium in a camper.

I use a Webasto Airtop diesel heater. Its mounted under the drivers floor with the outlet just behind the drivers seat, for heating the cabin area. When I work early shift, I'm generally up at 4am each morning. As its just me in the van I don't need to heat the cabin, only the cab area. So I have 90 degree elbow and some foil ducting that feeds the heat round to the drivers footwell and as a consequence, some warm air flows under the drivers seat where the lithium battery is likely to live .

In addition, a Thermocall gives me control remotely to fire up the heater from in the house. As soon as I wake up, if I know the temperature outside is low, I start the heater up using an app. So 20 minutes later when I leave the house, there's warmth from the go and the windscreen has defrosted. You could also set it on a timer function if you need longer to heat from lower temperatures.

Thermocall also allows you to check the interior temperature inside the van remotely. Tap 'OK' by the status function and a few seconds later you get a text letting you know the interior temperature and leisure battery voltage. So you get an idea if you need to add heat before you turn on the ignition and activate the DC DC charger.

Obviously heat soak won't be a good as heat pads, but maybe an option if your looking for cold climate functionality with lithium power.

Not cheap, but as said, maybe the Thermocall is worth looking at to help get round the problem. Essentially pre heating the van interior and battery before the DC DC charger activates. Im sure GSM type switches could probably be used if you want to use cheaper components and heater.

Just as an after thought, the current draw for the start up glow plug on the heater, may help heat the battery from the inside out also.

Screenshot_20210203-160301.jpg
 
Won’t be a heat pad be on pretty much all the time if it’s a real cold spell resulting in a flat battery if left un driven for any length of time?
 
POWEROAD seem to only run the heater when a charge source is present.... ie engine running.

Running the battery subzero is fine. Only charging is an issue.

So simple relay setup to stop charging until heat pads warn up battery should be simple enough.

No need to run the heater 24/7 . . . .

Few options though

Would be interesting to see some data for a heater connected up 24/7 via a temp controller.... in a cold climate.... to see how much power is used (for heating) over a 24hr period.
 
Would be nice to see how other manufacturers are doing it too.

Epsilon.

Relion.

Other's?

In regards to heater.
 
Renogys reply:

****
Hi Dellmassive,

Thank you for contacting us.

can the battery disconnect the input charge below freezing but still allow outgoing power?-The battery's operating discharge temperature is -20~60°C, operating charge temperature is 0~55°C. Continuing to charge the lithium battery when temperature below 0 °C will damage the battery, so the lithium battery's BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery to protect the battery. BMS will cut off the connection between the battery and loads when temperature below -20℃. This will not damage the battery, but it may shorten battery's service life if customers keep their batteries below 0 °C for long periods of time. We recommend that customers disconnect the solar panels and the controller below 0 ℃(if the charger is disconnected from the battery for a long time but still connected to the solar panels, it may damage the charger), and turn off the battery with the switch and store it indoors (above 0 ℃).


Best regards,
Jocelyn

****



going form this statement . . so the lithium battery's BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery to protect the battery


it would appear that the battery BMS will block incoming charge power, while allowing outgoing power. - Go Renogy. ( i say power because we are dealing with voltage levels and current in & out, so they must be using Mosfet or diode banks to shunt the power flow to block incoming current that's at a higher voltage than the battery output voltage)

we just need to see some real world testing now.
 
I don’t know if this is a daft idea or it’s been mentioned before and works..... but if you configure your b2b charger not to charge above 80% State of charge and your battery sits above that with no drain on it.....it will not charge if it’s freezing outside. Once it’s warm weather again you alter the B2B charger back to 100% state of charge, it will carry on as normal. ?
 
Dellmassive said:
Renogys reply:

****
Hi Dellmassive,

Thank you for contacting us.

can the battery disconnect the input charge below freezing but still allow outgoing power?-The battery's operating discharge temperature is -20~60°C, operating charge temperature is 0~55°C. Continuing to charge the lithium battery when temperature below 0 °C will damage the battery, so the lithium battery's BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery to protect the battery. BMS will cut off the connection between the battery and loads when temperature below -20℃. This will not damage the battery, but it may shorten battery's service life if customers keep their batteries below 0 °C for long periods of time. We recommend that customers disconnect the solar panels and the controller below 0 ℃(if the charger is disconnected from the battery for a long time but still connected to the solar panels, it may damage the charger), and turn off the battery with the switch and store it indoors (above 0 ℃).


Best regards,
Jocelyn

****



going form this statement . . so the lithium battery's BMS will cut off the connection between the charging source and the battery to protect the battery


it would appear that the battery BMS will block incoming charge power, while allowing outgoing power. - Go Renogy. ( i say power because we are dealing with voltage levels and current in & out, so they must be using Mosfet or diode banks to shunt the power flow to block incoming current that's at a higher voltage than the battery output voltage)

we just need to see some real world testing now.
Click to expand...
@OllieGBR

this might relate to your battery..... so it's ok to use in low temps apparently. (Untested)
 
Received my Renogy BT-2 monitor direct from Renogy the other day (excellent service) and have hooked it up to my Renogy DC-DC50 unit. This is connected to a TNPower 100ah lithium battery.
It works fine and I can confirm that yesterday when monitor reported temperature was 5c I was getting charge from my solar. This morning the app reported temperature was -1c and although the sunshine was brighter today there was no charge from solar.
What I have yet to test is if the charger will prevent alternator charge current to the battery at low temperature.
It looks cold up here for the rest of the week so shouldn’t be too hard to check.
 
well it looks like its finally happened for me (London) . . . . . the Van battery has hit 0degC

1612734184362.png



the Lithium battery box in the other hand is nice and warm indoors . . .


1612734280701.png
 
  • Wow
Reactions: mmi
looks like delivery has been pushed back from mid feb to mid march 2021

@andys - you heard from them yet? - i haven't. ( looks like we are going to miss the winter sub-zero testing at this rate, maybe summer high temp testing instead?)

Available for Pre order and in high demand – Delivery lead time – Mid March 2021



1614522917146.png
 
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