Issues found following deposit - DPF

T

T6KVB

Member
Hi,

Just wondering if anyone would give an opinion on a situation im in.

So , I put a deposit on a T6 2016 140 (caac) engine code with 100k miles on Saturday.

Slightly gappy history but the dealer had put a new cambelt on and given a full service.

They said that the 'coil light' had come on when they brought it back from the having the cam belt done ( didnt see it during test drive and drove seemed ok ) but they wanted their technician to check it out before i take it away.

The dealer has called me today saying nothing could be found, but wanted to let me know that the technician had noted the DPF had been programmed out and this was a great thing.

I followed up with have they removed the DPF or drilled out etc to which he said no all is there just programmed out, I asked when this was done but he said he didnt know.

I'm in a position now where I want to back out. The modification wasn't disclosed to me before I paid the deposit, and I have no idea if there are other issues hidden by doing it or what damage may have been caused over an unknown period. I can see costs mounting up. Do I have grounds to request my deposit back, or am I being over the top?"
 
Thanks all, appreciate the quick responses and confirming my thinking. Hopefully it doesn't end up being a battle to get my deposit back. Cheers
 
Notwithstanding the legality issues, if they have just mapped out the DPF and not gutted it, then the engine won’t last long.
 
It's now illegal to drive in the UK and will invalid your insurance.... (Tampering with the emission control system)

Get your money back and move on.


Though I'd like to know how they found out the engine map had been modified to map out the dpf.... And how they know the DPF has not been smashed though.... Without removing it to look inside? - a dpf delete requires the substrate to be removed or it will clog straight away.
...
That is of course unless they done all the above themselves ?
 
Last edited:
I guess they could be saying the dpf is still physically in place for mot purposes as it should be visually inspected and show no signs of being tampered with.

Its been mapped out for a reason.

Get your money back, no question.
 
As the CAAC engine doesn't use Adblue I can't see why they've tampered with it, but people rarely tamper with stuff if it's not causing some sort of problem.
As other have already said, get your deposit back and walk away from this van.
I doubt they'd want the authorities involved in any dispute as it'd be revealed that they've broken the law.
 
It’s illegal for them to issue an MOT (they know about the modification), take it for a test drive on a public road or transport it anywhere unless it’s on the back of another vehicle.
Offer them substantially less money and re-instate the DPF if you really want the van.
I’d be wary as the DPF removal was almost certainly done due to another issue upstream.
 
Thanks again for the replies.

So I called this morning, explained my position on it all.

I would not continue with the purchase due to the following;
  • Unroadworthy vehicle on the basis the the DPF was 'programmed out' but internals still there, the emissions control system has been modified etc
  • Any warranty offered would be null and void and my insurance would also be invalidated, potential future problems/costs etc.
Before it was offered I said that I wouldn't be interested in it being put right and that due to the information coming to light now I would expect my deposit to be returned.

No issues at all, almost as if it was expected. They did say that it would be sold as is, as 'there are tens of thousands on the road like it and that it's the thing you do with them'.....and there were people lined up to buy it :confused:

Deposit refund was processed as I was on the phone, not received yet but I'll give it a couple of days to process.

Followed it up with an email with the key points of the discussion as a record just in case I need to go through a claim back with the bank.

So, I was hoping my first few posts on here would be more suited to the 'Where have you been in your van today' posts, but I'm back to trawling the adverts looking for a van, armed with a bit more knowledge/experience than I had a week ago :)

Cheers
 
I just don't understand why people cheap out and mess with things....

Just get the van fixed.

Unfortunately it's normally the garages that push the illegal cheap fixes, to the unsuspecting punters.

Clogged egr & dpf sir?. No problem, we'll fix it for £300 and your never need to worry about it again........ But its not that simple, that makes the van illegal to use in the UK roads, with void insurance and should not pass a proper MOT.

Egr blank and.map.
Dpf delete and map.
Adblue delete and map
See all this too aften.

But VOSA are tighning the grip and MOTs are supposed to be getting stricter.... But there are still those dodgy garages that will pass a duff vans MOT without any worries.....as they just say it was legal when passed so must have been modded after inspection...... I'd say it's down to VOSA to quality check the MOT garages.
But with millions on MOTs daily tons of dodgy van slip through.


Mostly we see people doing this as a quick fix and themt flog the van....... To the unsuspecting new owners.

Who may be left with a £1-3k bill to sort it all out.


*******
 
T6KVB said:
Thanks again for the replies.

So I called this morning, explained my position on it all.

I would not continue with the purchase due to the following;
  • Unroadworthy vehicle on the basis the the DPF was 'programmed out' but internals still there, the emissions control system has been modified etc
  • Any warranty offered would be null and void and my insurance would also be invalidated, potential future problems/costs etc.
Before it was offered I said that I wouldn't be interested in it being put right and that due to the information coming to light now I would expect my deposit to be returned.

No issues at all, almost as if it was expected. They did say that it would be sold as is, as 'there are tens of thousands on the road like it and that it's the thing you do with them'.....and there were people lined up to buy it :confused:

Deposit refund was processed as I was on the phone, not received yet but I'll give it a couple of days to process.

Followed it up with an email with the key points of the discussion as a record just in case I need to go through a claim back with the bank.

So, I was hoping my first few posts on here would be more suited to the 'Where have you been in your van today' posts, but I'm back to trawling the adverts looking for a van, armed with a bit more knowledge/experience than I had a week ago :)

Cheers
Click to expand...

There was no argument because they knew they couldn't risk you going to trading standards or any other authorities to report them knowingly selling a vehicle with tampered emissions equipment.
You'll find the right van for you, that one wasn't it.
 
Just a quick Google....


No, it is not legal to sell a van in the UK with a disabled or removed Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) if the vehicle is intended for use on public roads.
DPF Clean Team
DPF Clean Team
+1


Under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations, any vehicle fitted with a DPF at manufacture must have it in place and fully operational. Selling a vehicle with a modified, removed, or disabled DPF is a criminal offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988, as it renders the vehicle unroadworthy.
Business Companion
Business Companion
+1


Here is a breakdown of the legal and practical implications:

Illegality of Sale: If you are a trader, selling such a vehicle is a breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (vehicle not as described/fit for purpose) and the General Product Safety Regulations 2005. Even in private sales, selling an unroadworthy vehicle is illegal.

MOT Failure: A vehicle with a removed or disabled DPF will automatically fail its MOT test.

Penalties: Penalties for driving a vehicle with a removed DPF can include fines of up to £1,000 for a car or £2,500 for a light goods vehicle (van).

Insurance: A DPF removal is a material modification, and failing to inform an insurer will likely invalidate the vehicle's insurance.
GOV.UK
GOV.UK
+5

If the Van is Sold "As Spares or Repair"
If the van is explicitly advertised as "spares or repair" because it is unroadworthy (e.g., due to a removed DPF), it must be clearly stated, and the vehicle should not be sold with a valid MOT or be driven away from the premises.

Business Companion
Business Companion
If You Bought a Van with a Removed DPF
If you bought a van and later discovered the DPF was removed, you have rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to seek a repair, replacement, or refund from the dealer, as the vehicle was sold in a condition that is unlawful to use on public roads.

...

I'd say that's a black & white argument.
 
Just for the sake of balance, and in no way an attempt to defend the seller in this case.
Plenty of folk, including members on here, delete various emissions devices/systems. Ad-Blue/EGR/DPF etc. No-one bats an eye, at some point in the future, those modified vans are going to hit the market, and the fact that they have been modified maybe a plus point for some buyers. I think the issue in this case is that the van was offered for sale and it wasn’t made clear to the buyer that the van had been altered, all be it illegally. It’s this deception that’s the problem, not the DPF delete per-se.
As always Caveat Emptor.
 
Well, there's the deception (lets be kind and call it lack of clarity) and the fact that the garage are willing to behave unlawfully and unethically.
 
Sasquatch said:
Well, there's the deception (lets be kind and call it lack of clarity) and the fact that the garage are willing to behave unlawfully and unethically.
Click to expand...
If the van had been advertised as non-road legal or for off road use only, or such like, then there wouldn’t be a problem. It would be a simple trade description issue. No deception/legal/ethical issues. No different to people selling dodgy number plates and light bulbs, which are advertised as “for off road use only” or “show plates”.
As I said, the main issue here (obviously only my own personal opinion) is that the van was being knowingly mis-sold, not that it had been altered.
The morality/ethics of removing emissions devices is debatable, selling goods not as described is a slam dunk.
 
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