Gas Bottle Storage and Gas Lockers and Regulations

[Creamytash]

Hello everyone, I am part way through converting a LWB Panel Van to Camper. I am trying to get my head around storing the gas bottle. I have read the various threads on the subject on this forum but they don't nail down my problem.
I read in various places that I need a metal gas locker with a drop vent to store the gas bottle in my van, but as if to contradict this info I also see vids on U Tube and pics on this forum where gas bottles are stored in plywood cabinets as part of the furniture. To add to my confusion I have a neighbour with a Peugeot motor home who keeps visiting me while I am working on my van. According to him I need to install a 'metal gas bottle locker' because in the event of an insurance claim, if I don't have one, my claim will be rejected. He also recons I need a gas safe certificate. I am totally confused on this issue, I am not trying to dodge doing the work or buying a metal gas locker, but is there anyone on here that can straighten me out on this issue so that I go in the right direction with my conversion. I know the first thing would be to keep the neighbour away from my van which will be difficult as I am working on the van on my front drive way.
Thank you in anticipation of any advice you can give me.
Creamytash - Nottingham.

 

[CAB]

As I understand it, there are no legal regulations for habitation gas in vehicles in the UK.

Metal lockers / dropouts / restrictions on pipes etc. all come (i believe) from the NCC - National Caravan Council? which has varous codes of practice, which most professional convertors will usually follow.

Advisable as safe practice in any case.

Insurance problems? No idea, not heard of issues, but I'm sure there have been some.

Possible issues on selling the van - trade-ins may be rejected by a motorhome dealer, but private sales shouldn't be affected.

 

[Creamytash]

As I understand it, there are no legal regulations for habitation gas in vehicles in the UK.

Metal lockers / dropouts / restrictions on pipes etc. all come (i believe) from the NCC - National Caravan Council? which has varous codes of practice, which most professional convertors will usually follow.

Advisable as safe practice in any case.

Insurance problems? No idea, not heard of issues, but I'm sure there have been some.

Possible issues on selling the van - trade-ins may be rejected by a motorhome dealer, but private sales shouldn't be affected.

Thank you for responding so quickly. I am not converting the van to sell or as a cash making venture, it is for my retirement in November. However, I now get the feeling that I should do any work in respect of gas bottles, pipe work, gas appliances etc in line with professional converters - which in turn should keep me on the right side.
Thanks again.
CT

 

[T6ChrisO]

I purchased my camper from a motorhome dealer. The conversion was done by Denby (a well recognised name in the camper world) and my gas bottle is stored in a plywood enclosure with a vent to outside

 

[paddy26]

Vw cali beach looks to be a plastic locker with dropout vent:

Google Image Result for https://www.mycalifornia.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ca1416-vw-california-beach-gas-bottle-storage-hfs-Edited.png

 

[Linoleum Bonypart]

Having ended up with a u shaped back end last year I shiver at the thought of rear stored gas bottles now …!!!!

 

[CAB]

Mine is the plywood kitchen cupboard but metal lined with dropout and foam sealed door.

Presume it meets the NCC code as they claim compliance.

 

[drinfinity]

If you are doing it for your own use, it’s up to you. If it is part of a business, you have to do it according to the regulations.

The Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998 (GSIUR) guidance notes are a good starting point.

Ultimately if you want to do it for your own use, but comply with the design, you need a sealed metal box with 50mm deep bund, with a dropout vent, the gas bottles should be secure, the fittings accessible, and hard piping only outside the box. My summary, there are many more details, I am not a plumber, your van may explode if you look at it without a certificate etc…

Gas safety in touring caravans, motor-caravans, caravan holiday-homes and residential park-homes

OC 440/34 gas safety in touring caravans, motor-caravans, caravan holiday-homes and residential park-homes

www.hse.gov.uk

Regulation 2(5)(e) excludes privately owned tourers. However RIDDOR regulation 11(1) incidents occurring in them are still reportable
The following are all subject to GSIUR:
Touring/motor caravan hired out in the course of a business

 

[drinfinity]

Edit to add - as I haven’t bought the BS document itself, I don’t have a primary source for the compartment to be metal, only that it shall be sealed.

 

[rod_vw]

As plastic gas containment is compliant on a California then it must be so on anything else. I believe the German regs are more stringent than ours but the Cali complies with them even for hire use.

 

[Creamytash]

Having ended up with a u shaped back end last year I shiver at the thought of rear stored gas bottles now …!!!!

I remember vividly the pictures that you posted and I totally take your meaning on board. The rearend is the last place I intend to locate my gas bottle.

 

[CAB]

Just had a quick look - I have access to this standard!

The HSE guidance says EN 1646 for Motor-caravans, but that redirects you to EN 1949.

No mention of material in EN 1949, so plastic would comply. Interestingly doesn't say much about LPG cylinder compartments.

• Sealed against the accomodation space;
• Attached sealed door or hatch;
• 50mm bund;
• Ventilation to the exterior (with minimum size and positioning info)
• Securing of cylinders

I guess the key thing is 'sealed' - has to be airtight from the inside of the van.

 

[Creamytash]

Thanks rod_vw & drifinity for your input. All of the above has helped me to put some meat onto the bones of this subject and gained me a better understanding of how the regs differ for personal builds, vans for sale from dealers or converters and vans hired out for reward. Thank you all so much for your input. I am now deliberating about installing a gas locker or using a compartment of the kitchen set to house the gas bottle. I am inclined towards installing a gas locker in the said kitchen cupboard on the O/S a midships of the van - Linoleum Bonypart - not the R-Send

 

[boxer750]

I had similar issues (and still have)
All driven by the insurance company/brokers, who state they do not cover fire in the van 'if it not installed/serviced' by a gas safe engineer.

I have been trying to get this done but without luck.
Nobody seems interested in the work.
The Insurers/brokers don't seem to have a clue. (But obviously like their 'get-out clause')
My camping Gaz is in a BS approved, metal, sealed box, with a 50mm vent out the bottom of the van, and about 3-400 mm left, under the gas appliance (dometic twin ring), another 50mm drop vent. There will be a gas alarm right under the cooker rings where the gas is coupled. I think I need to earth the very short copper pipe but apart from that I have no idea what more I can do.
I have just been told by someone who does motorhome checks that there has to be a high level vent too... As gas is heavier than air,, this makes zero sense.

My options seem to be to be safe and assume the risk of no payout in the case of fire.. or change my insurance company.

I would be so grateful if anyone out there knows someone who is able to certify a self build campervan??

PS. The brokers says now that the insurance company just want a habitation check....
PPS. The guy that does the motorhomes says the gas part would still be as he says..

 

[cgtmiles]

Mine came with a gas cert of some kind when I got it converted (wooden cabinet, rear of kitchen, sealed door, dropout at each connection in run, strap to hold the bottle). It was done in hull so if you are interested in contacting them I could dig out the details of the company for you?

 

[boxer750]

Hull is a long old trot for me, but if you could, I might be able to talk to them and find out if they know anyone.

Pete

 

[cgtmiles]

Kirby gas services ltd

Looks like the cert is more setup for boats. Maybe worth checking in at any nearby boat yards etc.

I’ve been thinking about whether I should get mine checked again as it’s now nearly 3 years since the installation so I might try the nearby boatyard on the canal here as that’s where I got the first bottle from too

Edit: could be kilby?

 

[boxer750]

Cheers. I'll try some boatyards tomorrow

 

[MikeB]

Ours is in a sealed metal gas safe at the bottom of the cupboard unit, with a drop vent at the bottom. It came with an independent certificate of having been safety checked from the installers. Our neighbours have just had a full service and hab check on their caravan, which apparently included a check on the gas system. I don't know if that included a certificate, but as noted, that's only required if you are renting the van out anyway. So maybe check with your local caravan suppliers?

 

[Nickdaw]

Just reading this. What about slidepods and the other pods?