Future Of Diesel Engines.

[Gavinda]

Problem being you're going to need pretty much twice as much renewable energy to do that in order to account for all the losses.

That's for folk far smarter than I to sort out. I'm just convinced that hydrogen is the better energy store for vehicles post fossil fuels than batteries ever can be.

 

[Alan Watts]

Buy a motorhome, wished I had now

 

[Algor]

I don't know how you read that from what I wrote. I'm saying that they'll have to charge them somewhere else and it'll barely be any more inconvenient than filling up with fuel. Then to make the costs equitable probably have to look at something like road pricing rather than fuel duty and ensure through policies or subsidies that charging stations are inline with domestic charging when it comes to costs. It's hardly beyond the wit of mankind. What's the alternative?

Until you can fully recharge your batteries "somewhere else" in 3 to 5 minutes" then there is no alternative to ICE for millions of people without off road parking. Unless this happens within the next 9 years then the motor vehicle is again going to be for the privileged only.

 

[t0mb0]

Until you can fully recharge your batteries "somewhere else" in 3 to 5 minutes" then there is no alternative to ICE for millions of people without off road parking. Unless this happens within the next 9 years then the motor vehicle is again going to be for the privileged only.

I think you are underestimating the sheer rate of progress in electric vehicles already. A Hyundai Ionic 5 can already put in 60 miles of charge in five minutes, where do you think it’ll be in 9 years? Development of electric vehicles has been staggeringly quick - largely driven by Tesla to give them their due. All this naysaying reminds me of digital cameras 20 or so years ago with everyone knowledgeably explaining about they would never become good enough to rival film in serious cameras…

In terms of charging infrastructure, it’s a challenge but it’s a challenge that we’ll have to meet - there just isn’t a palatable alternative. I don’t see it as that difficult, cars already spend a lot of time parked at work/shops or whatever the destination is, we have to rig these with chargers. The most challenging bit is probably the grid infrastructure.

Maybe hydrogen sounds good but it’s currently nowhere compared with battery cars, so we have to push what we have and push it hard.

 

[DXX]

Surely the way forward with electric vehicles is to have an exchangeable cassette of battery of just several standard configurations. The service station robot changes the battery cassette and you are on your way again.
You don’t own the battery, the car manufacturer provides them on lease as an incentive to buy EV’s.
Every exchange is debited so importantly the initial cost of the EV is lower as you didn’t purchase the battery and the more miles (cassette changes) you do the more you pay. This would also reduce heavy right foot action.
The Gov could also recoup a tax on the battery cassette changes to replace the current fuel duty.
The battery integrity (safety) would also be monitored during the exchange and sub-standard batteries removed for service.
Too easy???
Betamax just sprung to mind.

 

[t0mb0]

The interchangable batteries idea is nice in theory, but the political challenge of getting all car manufacturers, all countries and all infrastructure owners to all agree on the necessary standardisation somehow makes the idea of sorting the charging infrastructure seem suddenly very appealing…!

 

[Algor]

I think you are underestimating the sheer rate of progress in electric vehicles already. A Hyundai Ionic 5 can already put in 60 miles of charge in five minutes, where do you think it’ll be in 9 years? Development of electric vehicles has been staggeringly quick - largely driven by Tesla to give them their due. All this naysaying reminds me of digital cameras 20 or so years ago with everyone knowledgeably explaining about they would never become good enough to rival film in serious cameras…

In terms of charging infrastructure, it’s a challenge but it’s a challenge that we’ll have to meet - there just isn’t a palatable alternative. I don’t see it as that difficult, cars already spend a lot of time parked at work/shops or whatever the destination is, we have to rig these with chargers. The most challenging bit is probably the grid infrastructure.

Maybe hydrogen sounds good but it’s currently nowhere compared with battery cars, so we have to push what we have and push it hard.

I hope you are right, I really do. I don't really get the analogy between taking a picture and millions of people going about their everyday lives but I do hope you are right and that the technology is both affordable and accessible to everyone.

 

[DXX]

Hydrogen may seem an attractive fuel but IMO we can kiss goodbye to the right to maintain our own vehicle.
Natural gas (methane) has a LEL of 5% and UEL of 17%
Hydrogen by comparison had a LEL of 4% and UEL of 75%, way more dangerous and harder to contain with such a small molecule.

 

[Firthster]

E/V are shit, loads of my neibours have been sucked in.
they all rave how good E/V are. but all go long distance in there wifes cars as they never have 2 e/v on the drive.
its all bollocks as some have spent 70k plus on these all singing dancing E/V then when you ask why they bought the wifes car petrol. they all start spouting road tax etc

 

[JOG]

The EV market is currently skewed towards the company car user! Oops, so were diesel cars 20+ years ago!

 

[Gavinda]

E/V are shit, loads of my neibours have been sucked in.
they all rave how good E/V are. but all go long distance in there wifes cars as they never have 2 e/v on the drive.
its all bollocks as some have spent 70k plus on these all singing dancing E/V then when you ask why they bought the wifes car petrol. they all start spouting road tax etc

What about that statement makes them shit? Surely an EV for local trips/commuting and a second car for longer journeys it a sensible approach for a household who would have 2 cars anyway?

 

[Firthster]

no sorry its friday night, all my neibours who buy E/v but they refuse to buy one as asecond car ie wifes car.
they all go on about how good they are but all go on long joineys in the petrol diesel etc wifes car,
its all about company car tax free road tax etc etc
its a cop out

 

[JOG]

no sorry its friday night, all my neibours who buy E/v but they refuse to buy one as asecond car ie wifes car.
they all go on about how good they are but all go on long joineys in the petrol diesel etc wifes car,
its all about company car tax free road tax etc etc
its a cop out

Correct! HMRC led incentives to encourage take up! One stroke of a senior civil servant’s pen will completely alter that outlook

 

[Gavinda]

Correct! HMRC led incentives to encourage take up! One stroke of a senior civil servant’s pen will completely alter that outlook

There's going to have to be a completely new way of taxing the motorist once we're all whizzing around in our jazzy milk floats.

 

[JOG]

There's going to have to be a completely new way of taxing the motorist once we're all whizzing around in our jazzy milk floats.

Ha ha ha! Are there barriers to doing so? Remember when diesel cars attracted an lower tax rate? Remember when an arbitrary premium was added to diesel? Remember when diesel was taxed off the road? (Shall I continue?!!!) remind me of the obstacles again…?!!!

 

[Gavinda]

Ha ha ha! Are there barriers to doing so? Remember when diesel cars attracted an lower tax rate? Remember when an arbitrary premium was added to diesel? Remember when diesel was taxed off the road? (Shall I continue?!!!) remind me of the obstacles again…?!!!

Oh absolutely not! I wholeheartedly agree with you there's no way they'll have us swanning round in £50k+ leccy cars with free road tax for long!

 

[JOG]

Oh absolutely not! I wholeheartedly agree with you there's no way they'll have us swanning round in £50k+ leccy cars with free road tax for long!

Nail has just been hit on head!

 

[DXX]

There's going to have to be a completely new way of taxing the motorist once we're all whizzing around in our jazzy milk floats.

The Gov can make a surcharge every time a battery cassette is changed. Pay As You Go and encourages less vehicle use.

 

[DaveD]

There are millions of cars out there worth less than £2,000. Many of their owners can't afford a more expensive car.
The future looks very tricky for them.

 

[Murdoch]

road pricing by the mile coming to your vehicle very soon